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MRA icon Zed: Let little girls drown, because they’ll probably grow up to be terrible women

What kind of monster will she become?

“Zed,” also known as “The Zen Priest,” was one of the originators of the Men Going Their Own Way “philosophy” and is treated as a wise elder by many longtime MRAs.

WF Price of The Spearhead described a compilation of Zed’s writings as “really quite profound as well as a great read” and used to give it out as a bonus for everyone who signed up for his email newsletter. Paul Elam of A Voice for Men laid it on a bit thicker, saying of the man he described as both a mentor and a friend:

[H]is writings have taken him to iconic status in the minds of many men who have been at this for a while, this writer included. This has happened despite the fact that he has eschewed the path of self promotion and opted to speak from behind the persona of an archetype, maybe because of it.  Either way, he has wielded a sharp sword from his underworld den, and worn the uniform of a warrior in the battle for sanity between men and women … .

So what kind of fellow is this Zed?

Well, as I learned from a recent thread over on, where he is officially an “elite member,” he’s the sort of person who thinks you should’t bother to save a four-year-old girl from drowning, because then she’ll grow up into a woman, and most of them are just terrible.

The regulars on the forums there were discussing the case of Michael Patterson, a Georgia man who was paralyzed after diving into a creek to rescue a four-year-old girl from drowning, and who has now died after several weeks in the hospital.

While a few suggested that Patterson was a hero, others made clear they wouldn’t have done the same thing themselves. 0kool put it like this:

i know i would never save an adult CUNT….and i know that as sure as i breathe air. however, i would be hard pressed to save a female child knowing what she might have the potential to do in the future. My hat’s off to the guy. Let’s hope his death isn’t in vain and the child doesn’t become a CUNT piece of shit!

Zed, that grand underground warrior for gender sanity, that icon of the Men’s Rights movement, argued the same thing in slightly more restrained prose. In one comment, he warned of the dire possibility that the seemingly innocent little girl you save could grow up to be

another Amanda Marcunt, or Jessica Valenti, or Betty Friedan? Do we think it is worth a man giving his own life to save the life of a woman who will spend it being totally destructive?

In another, he raised the specter of an even more hated figure, at least amongst MGTOWers and MRAs:

Given the evidence around me, it does appear far more likely that a girl will grow up to be another Sharon Osborne – who thinks it is “fantastic” when a woman cuts off the penis of her husband, or the audience of women who cheered that statement – than a woman who contributes much, even to her own family.

I really can’t think of any woman in the public light who the world would be much worse off without.

When a female is in trouble, if I don’t know her, I don’t see her.

This is the kind of timeless wisdom that makes you an icon in the Men’s Rights movement, I guess.

NOTE: Thanks to @taylerlp on Twitter for the tip.

EDITED TO ADD: When I wrote this post, there were 13 or so comments in the MGTOWforums thread; there are considerably more now, including a number from MGTOWers who say they WOULD try to save a little girl. But Zed only doubles down on his position.

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7 years ago

Tofu tastes more like egg whites or scrambled eggs whenever I try it. I’m vegan, but I used to eat a lot of eggs.
Oh, another recipe came to mind.
Tofu scramble. Super easy, and vegan(unless you add cheese or something obviously).

Ingredients: 1 block of firm or extra firm tofu, onion, desired spices/salt(I just use salt and black pepper usually), oil for cooking in pans
Tools: stove, frying pan, 2 plates, a weight, paper towels or regular towels, spatula, fork.

1: press the tofu. Basically make a sandwich that’s bottom plate, lots of paper towels, tofu, more paper towels, top plate, and weight. Leave it there to squeeze the water out for like 10 minutes.
Pressing tofu is common, and I’m kind of new to it, so for more details just do a quick “how to press firm tofu”.
2: chop up onion. It’s only for flavor, since I love onion. I just use an 8th of those big onions with the caramel colored skin, idk the name but they taste a bit sweet. Vidalia?
3: sauté the onion in some oil.
4: when the tofu is done pressing, take it and mash it with a fork. It will be “scrambled”.
5: cover the tofu with the spices you want. Don’t be shy with the spices. Remember that tofu is flavorless. It’s supposed to have tons of spices.
5: cook the tofu in the pan till its golden brown. Make sure to stir it a lot. Tofu tends to stick to pans.
7: put salt on the tofu if desired. Sometimes when I put salt on it before I cook it, the salt disappears, so I add it after.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Kitteh — particularly with drowning. As that link Howard posted said, people who are in acute danger cannot act rationally and can easily pull their would be rescuer under. Now, if it’s a pool with a shallow end you can walk into, it might be worth the risk, but even then, FFS yell for help first!

Also, because this is incredibly dangerous, NEVER move someone who might have a spinal cord injury, unless you are positive their life is in danger if you leave them where they are the risk is just too high.

From what I understand (second hand, my aunt was an EMT years ago), your best way to help if you don’t know what to do is stay calm and talk about something mudane or such — keep the injured person calm and, if possible, talking. And, duh, call whatever your emergency number is (e.g. 911 here)

Oh and teach kids that number, if they’re old enough for a toy phone, they can probably learn it. *does not have first aid training besides a basic high school level course and a decade expired CPR certification*

But speaking of small children…shit, I can’t find it, one sec.

7 years ago

Yes, I learned some of that back in the day when we had first aid training at the Museum, so twice as expired as yours. 😛 Also things like the person making the noise isn’t really the one you need to worry about: it’s the one who’s gone very quiet or worse, is unconscious. Reassure the conscious but get help for the unconscious, pronto!

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Sorta pronto! You’re supposed to do a bit of CPR first, I guess to keep the intervals without blood flow short?

But anyways, I found the charts I was thinking of — CPR for infants and children and heimlich for infants (kids is the same but smaller, put ’em on a chair or bend over) —

And pets!

Idk about other furry critters, I know it’s pointless on fish, but if you know why they’re in distress you can sometimes provide the right sort of support (I once had a tetra fish with ich spend the evening in a cup on my desk so I could gently poke it under when it started to float…it lived to be four, an exceptional age for the species [ich has about a 12 hour life cycle at normal room temps, and dies Very Quickly if the cysts burst into malachite green’ed water])

And peas for constipated fish — most species like them, so when in doubt, give them a couple peas!


Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Oh and personal experience — if you give a dog chicken bones (just don’t) they can get stuck between the upper teeth and the animal will attempt to tear its face off to remove it. So shine a light into the roof of the mouth if it seems to be choking but isn’t having trouble breathing.

Yeah, that was a fun day. Had to tell my father three times that I could see the damned bone before he decided not to shove a damned spoon down dumbass’s throat (I swear, dumbass is smarter than his human)

7 years ago

Cooked chicken bones (any cooked bones, I think) are out for critters because they splinter so easily. Raw ones are good for kitties to chew, I know that.

Re the unconscious person, if they’re breathing okay I don’t think CPR’s required.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Ah, whoops! No, they don’t. And given the risk of breaking ribs, don’t do it (folks following along, yes, you need to press hard enough to risk breaking bones, and try and enlist help, it’s exhausting and most people can only keep it up for a few minutes)

Simply unconscious I think is call EMS, watch and wait, deal with things like freezing cold as needed.

First responder peeps! Is it correct that you do NOT attempt anything with a person having a seizure besides trying to move shit they could hurt themself on? None of that might bite their tongue stuff?

Oh and generally speaking, bleeding is apply pressure and keep the part above the heart if possible. I mention this only because the latter bit seems to be less known.

7 years ago

I don’t have any recipes in front of me, but tofu goes in vegan cheesecake. I love cheesecake but I’m violently lactose intolerant, so I had to get used to vegan sweets.

Tofu is also the only possible way to make vegan hollandaise that isn’t what I’d term “grossly inedible”.

7 years ago

As I recall seizure, the risk of tongue biting is less than the risk of choking on the object being used to prevent it, so don’t (to say nothing of the risk to self/victim from trying to restrain them enough to install a “bit”.

For blood, pressure. If the blood is bright red/spurting, apply a tourniquet. There is a present theory for severe bleeding (even venous) that a tourniquet is the best treatment. This is because the interval to professional care is much shorter than it used to be, and the ability to deal with blood/oxygen depleted tissue has improved.

My fist aid kit (very basic) is a couple of field dressings, and a one-handed tourniquet (i.e. I can apply it to myself, even if one arm is completely non-functional). I also have basic bandaging/sling supplies.

I will say that if one is fond of hiking/backpacking, and prone to going to places which are out of cell-phone coverage, learning how to apply a traction splint is a good idea, as fractured femurs have a much reduced mortal outcome if they are so splinted (reduces shock risk, pain, and prevents secondary damage from muscular tension).

Really, a good first aid course is never a bad idea.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

First aid kit…mine is less HOLY SHIT BATMAN and more the random shit nobody ever think they’ll need — an assorted variety of tums, Advil, band aids, not first aid shit (spare ear buds, a folding hair brush)…probably enough cable to rig a tourniquet if you need it.

Mostly though it’s my repository for the random shit I always wish I had + actual first aid stuff + “[Argenti] do you have a…” “yes mom”. On the other hand, that means it’s attached to my usual bag (whenever we get together, you’ll love that set up)

Did not hear that tourniquets where back though, I’d thought they were for “ok, wtf I’m tourniqueting is getting amputated probably” situations. Makes sense about response times though.

Basic first aid course…I probably should, the EMS books I read for fun as a kid where from the 80s (yes I read anything I could get my hands on)

7 years ago

I’m of the opinion everyone should have basic first aid. I, in fact, think it should be a part of high school education, but that’s more wishful thinking on my part I suspect. And the fact I have to get it done every year and I think everyone else should have to as well lol

7 years ago

Oh! How did I miss the tofu talk?

Definitely check out the Moo-less Chocolate Silk pie recipe:

This is really incredible and easy to make.

It can be made vegan by substituting the butter in the crumb crust.

I like making “S’more Pie” by replacing the chocolate crust with graham crackers, topping with mini marshmallows, then firing it under the broiler to brown and merge the marshmallows.

7 years ago

It can be made vegan by substituting the butter in the crumb crust.

And the honey in the filling, but it’s such a small part you could easily sub agave nectar or probably even leave it out, especially if you like a less sweet result.

7 years ago

leftwingfox: smore pie is a wonderful idea.

7 years ago

And the honey in the filling

You can tell I’m not vegan by me missing that detail. 😉

But yeah, Agave syrup, maple syrup or corn syrup could all probably be used instead.

Regardless, it’s an excellent chocolate pie recipe, and one I would choose over pudding or french silk versions, despite being a lover of dairy products

7 years ago

I’ve been interested in mens rights for a while and I can’t say I’ve ever heard of Zed, he does sound like he lives in a house and sits on a porch with a shotgun and regularly tells people to vacate his property.From a brief bit of research he doesn’t strike me as someone truly central to this topic as your article implies. However While his exact wording is clearly off, there is an argument that can be made that in today’s society we are far too quick to accept the idea that a man should sacrifice himself for a woman, whoever they are to him. While I seriously question the way that he doesn’t chose to help people he doesn’t know, and I should think it would usually be a good idea to help a stranger in need (man or woman), there is something to be said that because of our inherent biological predispositions society sees it as more important to preserve the safety of women than men and often society will look on the death of a woman as more tragic. I certainly think modern feminism has done nothing to debunk this point of view and actively enhances it through it’s presentation of women as mostly being the victims.

6 years ago

This article is quite dishonest and the writer should be ashamed of his conduct here. About half of the article is spent asserting that Zed is both a well known and respected member of the MRM, and thus implicitly asserting that his views are indicative for those of the rest of the movement. I know plenty of well respected MRAs such as Paul Elam, Warren Farrel, Dean Esmay, Karen Straughn, and many more, but this is the first I have heard of this Zed. The forum post by Zed appears to have been deleted and from as far as I can tell there are no other forum posts on the site by him. From all appearances my guess is he has been banned from the site. So much for the baseless assertions made here that his views represent the entire MRM…

6 years ago

If one feminist (even one who isn’t well known) ever suggested a 4 year old boy wasn’t saving because he’d grow up to be a man, the MRM would never, ever suggest that was a commonplace view right?

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

Nono, David, don’t you know, if Chris hasn’t heard of a person THEY DON’T EXIST.

Excuse me while I fade out of existen

6 years ago

Wasn’t worth saving I mean.

6 years ago

Paraphrased B:

“Well, of course Zed is being a total douchenozzle, but has it ever occurred to you he might be RIGHT?” *eyeroll*

6 years ago

Noooo! HOWARD!

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