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a voice for men correction Dean Esmay gross incompetence MRA

That fake screenshot on A Voice for Men? It wasn’t faked. A correction, and its implications

Mistakes were made.
Mistakes were made.

So you remember that dubious screenshot (see the bottom of this post) that appeared on A Voice for Men, and that I wrote about last week in several different posts? The one that looked like the most obvious fake in the history of obvious fakes, but that AVFM’s managing editor Dean Esmay insisted was the result of some sort of weird computer glitch?

Well, it looks like he was actually telling the truth. And I owe him — and A Voice for Men — an apology for suggesting otherwise.

This means that Esmay’s seemingly far-fetched explanation of how that screenshot came to be posted on AVFM — which I sort of made fun of a little bit here —  is actually starting to sound fairly plausible. This does not mean that he’s been completely honest in his handling of this whole thing. Far from it.

The seeming proof that the screenshot was not the result of forgery but of a glitch came out in a  strange and backwards way, and for those interested I think it’s worth going over the details.

Last week, you see, Jason Gregory, the author of the original post on AVFM that started this whole controversy (read more about it here) wrote a long, angry, and rambling tirade about my posts on the subject. I figured I might as well use the opportunity to see if I could get him to answer a few of the questions I still had about the whole thing, and started posting in the comments there.

This didn’t go so well, at least at first, and he more or less refused to answer anything I asked. Esmay himself showed up in the comments in a similarly less than forthcoming mood. In one long rant, which quoted extensively from the lyrics to “Head Like a Hole,” by Nine Inch Nails, he declared:

Let us make no bones about it: Futrelle is not mistaken. He is not stupid. He is evil, and his readers are generally 1) lowbrow idiots, 2) raging hatemongering bigots, and 3) careerists whose income is threatened by any threat to their ideology. He feeds on and profits from all this, dancing on the backs of the poor, the disenfranchised, the powerless–and innocent children. He’s not just a sadistic bully, he’s a sadistic professional bully. And like all bullies, he’s ultimately a coward and runs and obfuscates whenever he’s caught, which he has been here, repeatedly. …

“Bow down before the one you serve, you’re going to get what you deserve.”

And what he deserves is a lonely death, unmourned and unloved in some obscure hospital bed many years from now, knowing that he was a pathetic opponent of basic human rights, to be looked upon like we look upon the flunkies of HIram Evans or the defenders of the Apartheid regime, whenever anyone bothers to think of him at all. That will be his life’s legacy.

There’s more of this there, much, much more.

But — critically — after a bit of prodding from me and from a couple of other critics there, Gregory posted a video that showed him searching for “violence against men” and getting search results for “violence against,” just like in the screenshot that I had assumed was faked. (His screenshot software is screwy here, but what’s going on should be clear.)

It’s not clear why this happened — one commenter suggested it might be the result of a computer virus, but Gregory has rejected this explanation — and Gregory says he’s only been able to recreate this glitch on a few occasions. Most of the time when Gregory searches for “violence against men” — as another of his videos shows clearly — he gets the proper results, with no glitches.

But if this explains how the screenshot got made, it doesn’t quite explain why he sent it to Esmay, with a note saying “I admit it. I have no idea how search engines work. Here is a screencap from today after searching ‘violence against men.’”

Gregory says he sent this “as proof of my confusion about my search results,” though it’s not clear to me why he would send these atypical results and not mention that most of his search results were normal.

And Gregory has still not explained why he made the false claims in his original post.

On his own blog, in his original post, he has removed his original claim — that searching for “violence against men” gets you mostly search results for “violence against women” — and replaced it with a much less dramatic claim — that searching for “violence against” gets mostly results relating to violence against women.”

On that page, he describes these changes as a “correction,” a clear acknowledgement that he was wrong. But he is so allergic to answering questions from me that he simply refuses to say whether the incorrect claim in his original post was a mistake or a deliberate lie. I will be charitable and assume it was a mistake.

Esmay, despite his tirade against me, was actually been a bit more forthcoming with answers when I approached him via email.

At this point I am reasonably convinced that he wasn’t deliberately committing fraud when he used Gregory’s misleading screenshot as evidence supporting his rather unconvincing theory that Gregory’s original post — which Gregory himself has disavowed — was “really” right, and that the problem was simply that Google had changed its search formulas after AVFM published its post, so that searches about “violence against men” stopped returning results relating to “violence against women” and started returning search results actually relating to “violence against men.”

But if we reject fraud as an explanation, the only explanation that really makes sense is incompetence, with a side order of wishful thinking. We’re talking about a supposed “editor” who got an email with a screenshot that was clearly said to have been taken “today,” and who somehow convinced himself that it was taken weeks earlier. And then didn’t notice that the search results didn’t actually match the search term.

It certainly wouldn’t be the first time that someone at AVFM let their ideology make it impossible to see what was right in front of them.

In an email, I asked Esmay directly why, when Gregory handed in his revised version of his post (which replaced his incorrect assertion about the search results for “violence against men” with a correct assertion about the search results for “violence against”) he didn’t simply run this corrected version?

Here is his unedited answer:

Ha, I didn’t even see his revised version of the post, I was doing about five things at once. The way Gmail shows certain things also added a bit to that–although it’s not Gmail’s fault, it’s mine– it showed me a big ol’ image with a little bit of text written by Jason. So I skim, see a couple things from JG expressing dismay and consternation and thought “all right all right I’ll get to it” then BOOM a big screen shot came in. So I rushed in an “update” like a dumbass. That’s what hurrying will get you, and then others followed my lead and assumed I must know what I’m doing.

What we’d originally published matched things I’d seen many times before in casual conversaton showing people things like it. As an amusing bit of trivia, a few weeks ago I did a search on YouTube, looking for psychotherapist Tom Golden’s “Men Are Good” channel and the search results first showed up “men are good for nothing” as the #1 result. I find this sort of thing so common I just rolled my eyes and moved on, briefly thinking it was worth mentioning in a piece somewhere but probably not worth a whole article. Was composing an article about this sort of thing in general in my head the last few weeks but after this debacle I went and tried the same search again on YouTube, and it doesn’t do that anymore and more reasonable shit shows up. It doesn’t shock me, although I am pleased. Search algorithms change constantly and the churn of new info on the internet is incredible these days compared to what it used to be. And yes, like it or not, AVfM is big enough now that when we write about something, it changes what the search engines do.

So he ran a post making a literally unbelievable assertion — which proved to be wrong — without factchecking it, but after people pointed this out he decided that it was probably right anyway in the past because he vaguely remembered that when he made a somewhat similar search himself he sort of got results that were sort of analogous to the search results Gregory said he got in the story he has now disavowed.

And then Esmay basically ignored everything from the author of that story — including the disavowal —  except the one thing that seemed to back up his own theory, even though it was a weird screenshot caused by a glitch that didn’t reflect anything other than that glitch.

AVFM’s TyphonBlue has made a video that basically corroborates Esmay’s account and suggests that she was the mysterious “green editor” who actually posted that screenshot.

But even though the screenshot appears not to be a fraud, Esmay’s various explanations are filled with contradictions and, well, it’s hard to call them anything but lies.

Now — in that quote above — he claims to have merely witnessed similar results to Gregory’s original claims from similar web searches.

But in his last public explanation he suggested he had in fact done the exact same search and gotten the exact same results, with the only problem being that he hadn’t taken screenshots:

The fact is that I did witness the Google behavior I mentioned in Update 2. … It’s pathetic, really, to make this much out of this little. But Dave Futrelle has been given this opportunity because I personally failed to take and include a screen shot before publication … .

There are other, well, inconsistencies. If Gregory only sent over this one screenshot, why did Esmay post on AVFM that he had “found” multiple screen shots to back up his story and prove Gregory “100% correct?” When I asked him this directly, he provided this explanation:

I honestly don’t specifically remember but I’m pretty sure it was the same damn thing. Stupid really. That’s what rushing will get you, although my real intent was to write up the way these things really work at the likes of Google, how quickly things can change, and so on.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity,” they say. I have seen plenty of both from AVFM in the past, but in this case I think it’s clear that it is stupidity that predominated.

NOTE: Here’s the original screenshot that caused so much trouble for everyone:

Violence-Against-Men-Medium

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becausescience
becausescience
11 years ago

The guy’s original claim that Googling “violence against men” returned mostly results for “violence against women” was false. Once that was established, he should’ve dropped it. Going on to claim that searching for “violence against” returns results for “violence against women” is only evidence of the fact that searching for an incomplete term often won’t get you the results you’re looking for.

If I’m looking for information on cat food, I type in “cat food”, not “cat”. The fact that when I type the word “cat” into Google, the first page of results currently is general information about cats, news about the company Caterpillar, Inc., and funny cat pictures isn’t evidence that there’s some mass conspiracy against cat food. It’s evidence that Google’s algorithm has calculated that those are the most relevant results for people searching for the word “cat”. Whether or not lolcats and construction equipment are what somebody’s looking for when they Google “cat” is certainly debatable, but no evil anti-catfood conspiracy is needed to explain it.

Like with that cat/cat food scenario, the blogger’s problem of not seeing results for “violence against men” is easily solved by typing in the actual thing he’s searching for.

Kittehserf
11 years ago

Sorry, this comment could not be posted.

I keep getting this message, and I don’t know why. :/

I was getting that last night, too.

Kittehserf
11 years ago

::sigh:: well at least the blockquotes are behaving as usual …

pecunium
11 years ago

does that include your own stupidity, or should we attribute your motivations purely to malice? just checking.

How precious. A detailed explanation of how (and why) he came to the conclusions he did; married to apparent lies (all the “lost screenshots” and “I got it too”) and you are saying was malice: while hiding behind anonymity.

amandajane5
11 years ago

This is more than just malice.
Better stop and take stock
While you’re standing here stuck
On the steps of the palace.

Source. Cinderella contemplating the spreading of pitch on the stairs, from Into The Woods.

freemage
freemage
11 years ago

Malice:

1. A desire to harm others or to see others suffer; extreme ill will or spite.

Hm… Given the way they wail and whine and gnash their teeth every time feminists score a victory of some sort, if we consider such actions as evidence of their ‘suffering’, then yes. Yes, I am motivated by malice, for I desire to witness such on a regular basis. Their tears over Sarkeesian’s success are to me as finest wine, and their howls of outrage at Facebook and Kickstarter’s policy amendments are music sweeter than any songbird’s.

scarlettpipstrelle
11 years ago

They’re still shaky when it comes to fact checking. This from the Spearhead, “Bob Smith June 27, 2013 at 21:55

“Are women who are actually put to death more likely to be put to death if the victim is female or male, if there are both male and female victims, or if the victims are all-female or all-male?”

I’m pretty sure no woman has been executed for murdering only adult men. I’m not sure if one has been ordered if all the children were boys, but it wouldn’t surprise me if no such execution was ordered. Generally, an execution will only be ordered for a female perp if a woman or girl is among the deceased.”

Shall we tell him about Aileen Wuornos?

neuroticbeagle
11 years ago

Actually the biggest predictor of whether someone will get the death penalty (in the US) is the race of the victim. Kill a white person, die- some other race, meh. :/

Mongoose
Mongoose
11 years ago

“I’m pretty sure no woman has been executed for murdering only adult men. I’m not sure if one has been ordered if all the children were boys, but it wouldn’t surprise me if no such execution was ordered. Generally, an execution will only be ordered for a female perp if a woman or girl is among the deceased.”

Maybe they should do some research before talking out of their ass.

http://bit.ly/18kdwV9

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
11 years ago

Yeah, only 60% of the women executed in the US since 1976 killed at least one adult man. So he’s not off by that much.

ec
ec
11 years ago

Just out of curiosity I went through the list on Wikipedia:
Velma Barfield – murdered two men and two women
Karla Faye Tucker – murdered a man and a woman
Judy Buenoano – murdered two men
Betty Lou Beets – murdered a man
Christina Marie Riggs – murdered two children (male and female)
Wanda Jean Allen – murdered two women
Marilyn Kay Plantz – murdered a man
Lois Nadean Smith – murdered a woman
Lynda Lyon Block – murdered a man
Aileen Wuornos – murdered several men
Frances Newton – murdered a man and two children (male and female)
Teresa Lewis – arranged the murders of two men
Kimberly McCarthy – murdered a woman

So that’s 6 out of 13 who murdered only adult men. Glad to see that MRA’s remain uninfluenced by such irrelevant things as facts.

Howard Bannister
11 years ago

Never, 60%, slippery slope and all that, right?

Howard Bannister
11 years ago

I love their fact-checking methodology.

“Let me see. I want to claim something horrible about women. Shall I fact-check it? Yes, why not. Does it seem right to me? It seems right to me. FACT-CHECKING COMPLETE, SIR!”

OccupyMedic
OccupyMedic
11 years ago

De lurking…. Longtime reader, several of my close friends were involved in the ‘great boxcutter incident’, I was driving the big signs home from the pro-choice demonstration and missed all the fun.
I am constantly amazed by how ‘ad-hominem’ virtually all the MRA arguments are. And in the case of the above article kinda ‘tinfoil hat’ too. I find myself wondering how many of these guys also spend time on 9/11 truth sites and talking about chemtrails and lizard people. Has anyone done research on this? Just curious…

OccupyMedic
OccupyMedic
11 years ago
Reply to  David Futrelle

the back story on that was never addressed was it? This could become a long post… O.K.: There’s an abortion clinic in our neighborhood in Vancouver. Some ‘pro life’ types from a conservative church out in the valley had been picketing it regularly. So we began a regular counter demonstration. We had LOTS of signs, one painted on a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood. We kept them stored at my place and our neighbor’s house. As it was only a few blocks away, I would toss the signs in the back of my truck and cart them over to the demo, most others walked there.
The day of the ‘Legendary Incident’, while walking up to wave pro choice signs, two of our group ran across JTO putting up AVFM posters about 2 blocks from the clinic. Words were exchanged (rude ones from what I was told). And about 1 & 1/2 hrs later, as we were packing up the signs, several ppl decided to cruse by and take down the AVFM posters. 10 people (yes, you read that right TEN) one of whom had ONE set of box cutters headed off together. Much to their surprise, JTO was still there. You’ve seen the video and heard the accounts… The only other thing I can think to add is that as it was all ending and people were leaving a man in a large black SUV cruised past one of the women in our group filming her and yelling at her to “Watch her back”.

cloudiah
11 years ago

Very interesting, OccupyMedic — thanks for the information. And welcome to de-lurked status.

OccupyMedic
OccupyMedic
11 years ago
Reply to  cloudiah

thanks for the welcome package. Scented motherfucking candles indeed!

Falconer
11 years ago

Thanks for the story, OccupyMedic.

Why was he still hanging around? Didn’t he have more posters to hang?

Probably he was hoping someone would come back by, or someone else would approach him, so he could get in all those good lines he thought up after your friends left the first time.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
11 years ago

OccupyMedic, thank you for the first hand account. I never knew this part

JTO was still there. You’ve seen the video and heard the accounts… The only other thing I can think to add is that as it was all ending and people were leaving a man in a large black SUV cruised past one of the women in our group filming her and yelling at her to “Watch her back”.

So the MRA’s makes a verbal threat against the protestors, but then turn things around and pretend to be the victim of the threats. The MRA’s are all about DARVO

OccupyMedic
OccupyMedic
11 years ago
Reply to  thebionicmommy

@falconer: We all think that it was no coincidence that JOT was postering a couple of blocks from a demo that would attract vocal feminists and their allies. That he was in the exact same spot when the demo ended a hour and a half later…. That’s just pure random chance, right?

@thebionicmommy: pretty much. You are aware that JTO involved the police by calling 911, right?

freemage
freemage
11 years ago

To the above list, I add the first woman ever executed in Illinois: Elizabeth Reed, who was hung by the neck until dead in the year of 1844 (she is the only woman in history of the state to be put to death by that particular method). Her crime? Killing her husband. So again, reality vs. MRAs, MRAs lose.

freemage
freemage
11 years ago

Error–1845.

emilygoddess
11 years ago

And in the case of the above article kinda ‘tinfoil hat’ too. I find myself wondering how many of these guys also spend time on 9/11 truth sites and talking about chemtrails and lizard people. Has anyone done research on this? Just curious…

I haven’t done any research, but as I’ve commented a few times in the past: they strike me as exactly the same sort of person, but by sheer coincidence, they’ve ended up fixating on feminism instead of aliens or the Illuminati.