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a voice for men correction Dean Esmay gross incompetence MRA

That fake screenshot on A Voice for Men? It wasn’t faked. A correction, and its implications

Mistakes were made.
Mistakes were made.

So you remember that dubious screenshot (see the bottom of this post) that appeared on A Voice for Men, and that I wrote about last week in several different posts? The one that looked like the most obvious fake in the history of obvious fakes, but that AVFM’s managing editor Dean Esmay insisted was the result of some sort of weird computer glitch?

Well, it looks like he was actually telling the truth. And I owe him — and A Voice for Men — an apology for suggesting otherwise.

This means that Esmay’s seemingly far-fetched explanation of how that screenshot came to be posted on AVFM — which I sort of made fun of a little bit here —  is actually starting to sound fairly plausible. This does not mean that he’s been completely honest in his handling of this whole thing. Far from it.

The seeming proof that the screenshot was not the result of forgery but of a glitch came out in a  strange and backwards way, and for those interested I think it’s worth going over the details.

Last week, you see, Jason Gregory, the author of the original post on AVFM that started this whole controversy (read more about it here) wrote a long, angry, and rambling tirade about my posts on the subject. I figured I might as well use the opportunity to see if I could get him to answer a few of the questions I still had about the whole thing, and started posting in the comments there.

This didn’t go so well, at least at first, and he more or less refused to answer anything I asked. Esmay himself showed up in the comments in a similarly less than forthcoming mood. In one long rant, which quoted extensively from the lyrics to “Head Like a Hole,” by Nine Inch Nails, he declared:

Let us make no bones about it: Futrelle is not mistaken. He is not stupid. He is evil, and his readers are generally 1) lowbrow idiots, 2) raging hatemongering bigots, and 3) careerists whose income is threatened by any threat to their ideology. He feeds on and profits from all this, dancing on the backs of the poor, the disenfranchised, the powerless–and innocent children. He’s not just a sadistic bully, he’s a sadistic professional bully. And like all bullies, he’s ultimately a coward and runs and obfuscates whenever he’s caught, which he has been here, repeatedly. …

“Bow down before the one you serve, you’re going to get what you deserve.”

And what he deserves is a lonely death, unmourned and unloved in some obscure hospital bed many years from now, knowing that he was a pathetic opponent of basic human rights, to be looked upon like we look upon the flunkies of HIram Evans or the defenders of the Apartheid regime, whenever anyone bothers to think of him at all. That will be his life’s legacy.

There’s more of this there, much, much more.

But — critically — after a bit of prodding from me and from a couple of other critics there, Gregory posted a video that showed him searching for “violence against men” and getting search results for “violence against,” just like in the screenshot that I had assumed was faked. (His screenshot software is screwy here, but what’s going on should be clear.)

It’s not clear why this happened — one commenter suggested it might be the result of a computer virus, but Gregory has rejected this explanation — and Gregory says he’s only been able to recreate this glitch on a few occasions. Most of the time when Gregory searches for “violence against men” — as another of his videos shows clearly — he gets the proper results, with no glitches.

But if this explains how the screenshot got made, it doesn’t quite explain why he sent it to Esmay, with a note saying “I admit it. I have no idea how search engines work. Here is a screencap from today after searching ‘violence against men.’”

Gregory says he sent this “as proof of my confusion about my search results,” though it’s not clear to me why he would send these atypical results and not mention that most of his search results were normal.

And Gregory has still not explained why he made the false claims in his original post.

On his own blog, in his original post, he has removed his original claim — that searching for “violence against men” gets you mostly search results for “violence against women” — and replaced it with a much less dramatic claim — that searching for “violence against” gets mostly results relating to violence against women.”

On that page, he describes these changes as a “correction,” a clear acknowledgement that he was wrong. But he is so allergic to answering questions from me that he simply refuses to say whether the incorrect claim in his original post was a mistake or a deliberate lie. I will be charitable and assume it was a mistake.

Esmay, despite his tirade against me, was actually been a bit more forthcoming with answers when I approached him via email.

At this point I am reasonably convinced that he wasn’t deliberately committing fraud when he used Gregory’s misleading screenshot as evidence supporting his rather unconvincing theory that Gregory’s original post — which Gregory himself has disavowed — was “really” right, and that the problem was simply that Google had changed its search formulas after AVFM published its post, so that searches about “violence against men” stopped returning results relating to “violence against women” and started returning search results actually relating to “violence against men.”

But if we reject fraud as an explanation, the only explanation that really makes sense is incompetence, with a side order of wishful thinking. We’re talking about a supposed “editor” who got an email with a screenshot that was clearly said to have been taken “today,” and who somehow convinced himself that it was taken weeks earlier. And then didn’t notice that the search results didn’t actually match the search term.

It certainly wouldn’t be the first time that someone at AVFM let their ideology make it impossible to see what was right in front of them.

In an email, I asked Esmay directly why, when Gregory handed in his revised version of his post (which replaced his incorrect assertion about the search results for “violence against men” with a correct assertion about the search results for “violence against”) he didn’t simply run this corrected version?

Here is his unedited answer:

Ha, I didn’t even see his revised version of the post, I was doing about five things at once. The way Gmail shows certain things also added a bit to that–although it’s not Gmail’s fault, it’s mine– it showed me a big ol’ image with a little bit of text written by Jason. So I skim, see a couple things from JG expressing dismay and consternation and thought “all right all right I’ll get to it” then BOOM a big screen shot came in. So I rushed in an “update” like a dumbass. That’s what hurrying will get you, and then others followed my lead and assumed I must know what I’m doing.

What we’d originally published matched things I’d seen many times before in casual conversaton showing people things like it. As an amusing bit of trivia, a few weeks ago I did a search on YouTube, looking for psychotherapist Tom Golden’s “Men Are Good” channel and the search results first showed up “men are good for nothing” as the #1 result. I find this sort of thing so common I just rolled my eyes and moved on, briefly thinking it was worth mentioning in a piece somewhere but probably not worth a whole article. Was composing an article about this sort of thing in general in my head the last few weeks but after this debacle I went and tried the same search again on YouTube, and it doesn’t do that anymore and more reasonable shit shows up. It doesn’t shock me, although I am pleased. Search algorithms change constantly and the churn of new info on the internet is incredible these days compared to what it used to be. And yes, like it or not, AVfM is big enough now that when we write about something, it changes what the search engines do.

So he ran a post making a literally unbelievable assertion — which proved to be wrong — without factchecking it, but after people pointed this out he decided that it was probably right anyway in the past because he vaguely remembered that when he made a somewhat similar search himself he sort of got results that were sort of analogous to the search results Gregory said he got in the story he has now disavowed.

And then Esmay basically ignored everything from the author of that story — including the disavowal —  except the one thing that seemed to back up his own theory, even though it was a weird screenshot caused by a glitch that didn’t reflect anything other than that glitch.

AVFM’s TyphonBlue has made a video that basically corroborates Esmay’s account and suggests that she was the mysterious “green editor” who actually posted that screenshot.

But even though the screenshot appears not to be a fraud, Esmay’s various explanations are filled with contradictions and, well, it’s hard to call them anything but lies.

Now — in that quote above — he claims to have merely witnessed similar results to Gregory’s original claims from similar web searches.

But in his last public explanation he suggested he had in fact done the exact same search and gotten the exact same results, with the only problem being that he hadn’t taken screenshots:

The fact is that I did witness the Google behavior I mentioned in Update 2. … It’s pathetic, really, to make this much out of this little. But Dave Futrelle has been given this opportunity because I personally failed to take and include a screen shot before publication … .

There are other, well, inconsistencies. If Gregory only sent over this one screenshot, why did Esmay post on AVFM that he had “found” multiple screen shots to back up his story and prove Gregory “100% correct?” When I asked him this directly, he provided this explanation:

I honestly don’t specifically remember but I’m pretty sure it was the same damn thing. Stupid really. That’s what rushing will get you, although my real intent was to write up the way these things really work at the likes of Google, how quickly things can change, and so on.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity,” they say. I have seen plenty of both from AVFM in the past, but in this case I think it’s clear that it is stupidity that predominated.

NOTE: Here’s the original screenshot that caused so much trouble for everyone:

Violence-Against-Men-Medium

103 Comments
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bekabot
bekabot
11 years ago

Maybe these people live in a universe of their own to the extent that they get alternate universe Google results. If so, Google Fu has indeed reached a new level.

tooimpurenangel
11 years ago

I like the AU theory. Explains where the MRM gets their ideas.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

tooimpurenangel — Voltaire!! Awesome. (And/or Appeal to Awesome Music [an Argenti created fallacy, a cousin of Argumentum ad Youtubem])

guffaw-ferrets
guffaw-ferrets
11 years ago

Oh, I am *definitely* a hatemongering bigot. Process of elimination.

Although I would love to know Viscaria’s profiteering strategy, because “more $money$ more problems” is a totally untrue philosophy.

tooimpurenangel
11 years ago

@Argenti
Whoa, somebody likes the same music as I do?! *squees* Apparently most of my music is a “guilty pleasure” which I don’t actually believe in. Heh.
I’m gonna have to remember that fallacy.

rabbitwink
rabbitwink
11 years ago

Lowbrow idiots? Last I checked, Manboobzers were not the folks I saw on line for the latest Adam Sandler/David Spade movie.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

tooimpurenangel — you joining the ranks of the manboobz Asylum army? (If you have to ask… XD )

tooimpurenangel
11 years ago

@Argenti
With Bloody Crumpets?

Michelle C Young
11 years ago

de-lurking here.

I just love how these guys blame David for their mistake. OK, so it was an actual mistake, and not a fraud. It *looked* like a fraud, because how likely is it that these guys would seriously be *that* incompetent? And still be paid for it?

So, when David called them out, they did not say, “David, we have proof *and here it is*.” No, they said, “We have proof, but we’re not going to show it to you, neener-neener, so you are not merely mistaken in your interpretation of insufficient data, but YOU ARE EVIL! AND A LIAR!”

It always bugs me when people do this. They called Bush a liar when he said that THE REPORT said there were WMDs. Well, the report DID say that there were WMDs. The report was wrong. That didn’t make Bush a liar. It meant that Bush had a bad report. The one who wrote the report without any evidence to back it up was the one who told the lie. However, as President, he’s responsible for everythign that happens in his country, on his watch. It hurts, but there it is. But these guys are reacting the same way to David as so many people did to Bush. As if David is their commander-in-chief, and responsible for the screw-ups of all his underlings. That is miltary thinking, applied to a linear chain of command, where there is actually no chain, nor command, in the first place!

It’s really sad, the lack of self-awareness and just plain logic so many people suffer.

I like your site, David. Thanks so much for pointing out these things for us to read and enjoy.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

YES!!!! *uber squee!!*

tooimpurenangel
11 years ago

YAY!!! Yes, definitely!

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
11 years ago

/waves, probably back to lurking again now – just really busy.

They’re still letting Adam Sandler make movies? /rolls eyes.

talacaris
11 years ago

The first result in Autocomplete when I type “violen” is “violent femmes” Strange!

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

You know it learns right? Like, mine knows your nym (and damned near everyone else’s)

Also, you see the update on the survey? I’ll be posting the spreadsheets on google docs tonight, probably before 10 blog time.

talacaris
11 years ago

which will in the middle of night here. I hope to have a look at it tomorrow.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

K, I don’t expect to have usable graphs done until Saturday anyways, nor do I expect you to run every pair of variables, just sort through and find any that stand out and look humorous. E.g. N people are David, cats in a David suit, or ferrets in a David suit, and N people have SCENTED FUCKING CANDLES, talacaris says this is an R correlation.

Thanks!

talacaris
11 years ago

OK.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
11 years ago

I like how Jason Gregory goes on this long, angry ramble about how David is a weaselly lying weasel liar, when this whole little debacle would have been avoided by him being honest enough to double-check the glitches he got.

anonymous
anonymous
11 years ago

“Well, it looks like he was actually telling the truth. And I owe him — and A Voice for Men — an apology for suggesting otherwise.”

lol – you don’t say…

““Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity,” they say.”

does that include your own stupidity, or should we attribute your motivations purely to malice? just checking.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Thanks again talacaris!

anonymous — sorry, today’s troll quota has been met, please try again later.

Zombie Marie
Zombie Marie
11 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri

I don’t know. anonymous is boring, but at least so far zie isn’t anywhere near as despicable as Greg.

Briznecko
Briznecko
11 years ago

2/10 Weaksauce.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Anon: you really gotta step your game up. We already have Uncle Ruckus in the other thread.

Zanana the Pegging Queen
Zanana the Pegging Queen
11 years ago

I hope this was the version of Head Like a Hole that Dean was quoting: https://soundcloud.com/pomdeterrific/pomdeter-call-me-a-hole

Ally S
11 years ago

““Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity,” they say.”

does that include your own stupidity, or should we attribute your motivations purely to malice? just checking.

Of course he’s applying it to himself, otherwise he wouldn’t have said it.

Not that hard to figure out. Then again you’re a troll, so maybe I’m expecting too much of you.