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antifeminism feminism inspiring misogyny MRA oppressed white men PUA rape rape culture

Up from misogyny?

9

A couple of interesting reads:

Check out Escaping the Friendzone: The story of a former right-wing MRA on Jezebel Groupthink, a confessional mini-memoir by a dude who traces his “transition from misogynist, homophobic, right-wing MRA to raging intersectional feminist atheist leftist.”

Meanwhile, that guy who just got that rapey pickup manual funded by Kickstarter, Ken Hoinsky? Well, he’s apparently been quite upset by the criticism and is now pledging to make the manual entirely non-rapey. No, really. He met with the guy who started the petition about his book, and released an apology of sorts saying, among other things:

The concept that someone could interpret what I was writing to be a rape guide shocked me at first. But I took a long look in the mirror and absorbed all the great feedback coming in from across the Internet…

Here is what I realized: In the most offensive and controversial parts, I chose my words poorly. Very, very poorly. I meant one thing and people were reading another. THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. I needed to seriously evaluate every last word of my writing to make sure I wasn’t encouraging sexual assault in any way, shape, or form.

Ben Kassoy of DoSomething.Org … graciously offered to meet with me to provide alternate opinions and insights to help remove all of the potentially harmful advice. I am proud to say that his was the first of many meetings I will be having with anti-rape and anti-abuse organizations and experts to make sure that the advice I am offering is free of any tinge of sexual assault or rape vibes. I will be rewriting Above The Game under their guidance and insight.

Right here, on abovethegame.info, I will be starting an international dialogue on how we remove the negative stigma and shame that drives men to seek out seduction advice in the first place. My name may have been martyred in the press, but I will be using this opportunity for good.

The answer isn’t censoring all dialogue surrounding the issue ala Kickstarter’s statement on banning all men’s dating guide projects. Women’s rights and “male seduction guides” can and should coexist

P.S. To my loyal followers from reddit, you should already be aware my writings are not intended to encourage rape. So rest assured the final book will be in the same style you are used to. I’m just taking us to the next level.

Frankly, it doesn’t sound like he’s really learned much of anything from the experience yet, but if he actually follows through with his promised meetings with anti-rape activists he might. We’ll just have to see how that goes.

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Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

Get this: the Senate actually started voting at 12:02 am on the 26th, but the timestamp on the vote was retroactively changed to the 25th.

katz
7 years ago

Get this: the Senate actually started voting at 12:02 am on the 26th, but the timestamp on the vote was retroactively changed to the 25th.

BUUUUUULLLLLLLSHHHHHIIIIIIITTTTTTTT

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

Fucking cretins, amirite.

Although, now I’m seeing repeated reports that it’s not going to stick since it happened after midnight. Looks like someone realized the little cover-up wasn’t going to work. Fat chance they’ll be held accountable, though.

Kakanian
Kakanian
7 years ago

This reminds me… any chance we could get some comments on Stendhal’s “On Love”? I imagine his focus on love and endearment would stand in contrast with some of that PUA-stuff.

katz
7 years ago

How much of this stuff has to happen before we can just go ahead and say that we live in a totalitarian police state?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

So, are these people basically just holding their colleagues hostage at work until the non-batshit ones give up and vote the way the batshit ones want so they can all go home or what?

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

Here’s a livestream from the rotunda, where Wendy Davis might soon speak:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/christopherdido?utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=10021075&utm_medium=social

For my part, I’ll maybe consider not calling the US a police state when we aren’t imprisoning people in record numbers and bombing foreign civilians with impunity. But that’s just me.

dsfrogs
dsfrogs
7 years ago

“don’t ask for her permission”
I meant one thing and people were reading another. 0_0

katz
7 years ago

No, there’s a rule that they have to stop debate at midnight Tuesday night. That’s what she was going for.

katz
7 years ago

For my part, I’ll maybe consider not calling the US a police state when we aren’t imprisoning people in record numbers and bombing foreign civilians with impunity.

Speaking of which, I heard ~50 arrests of protesters at the filibuster. Most or all women, many elderly. Here’s one.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

The AP tweeted that the bill won’t go through about 15 minutes ago. Score 1 for the gallery filibuster. Unfortunately, Texas is going to get away with the voter ID shit for the foreseeable future.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

I literally don’t want to imagine what the reaction to the affair will be in the MRAsphere. Probably something about Feminist Brownshirts, as usual. Perhaps there will be poetry.

Historophilia
Historophilia
7 years ago

Wendy Davis is honestly one of the most incredible people I’ve ever seen.

Somegreybloke
Somegreybloke
7 years ago

It’ll be interesting to see the reaction from the Kickstarter funders for Hoinsky’s rape manual. If he genuinely tries to rewrite it to be more “women’s rightsy” (impossible, as pointed out above) I’d have thought that would count as fraud, as it’s not what his backers have paid for.

BigMomma
BigMomma
7 years ago

Gosh, my penguin (whore spirits) are in Pierre! Thanks to my collaborator (I forgot who mentioned the whore spirits bit, sorry but woo hoo thanks)

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
7 years ago

I know feminism and human rights should be partisan on their face.
Meant to say should not here.

Could not be more ecstatic to hear the news. Wendy Davis got firebombed last year (over last year’s sonogram law I think) and she is still fighting. So ya, the actual AVfM motto was tried against her and failed.

Lots more fighting to do. Gotta get out the vote and make sure the demographic tidal wave in Texas hits the regressives, hard.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

I suppose it could be in theory possible to write a non-misogynistic dating guide for straight men that treats women like human beings — I’ve just never seen it.

There’s this Swedish psychologist-turned-entertainer (he does mind-reading tricks) that wrote a PUA book some time ago, called “alla får ligga” (everyone gets laid). It’s apparently aimed at all genders and orientations, the idea being that the tricks are basically the same regardless. I haven’t read it, but I reckon it can’t be that bad, comparatively speaking, if he thinks men and women essentially works the same…

Come to think of it, wasn’t the first American PUA also some guy who did mind-reading tricks? Or did I just dream that?

Lanas
Lanas
7 years ago

Hi everyone! I have been lurking here for months and just had to delurk to squee that the Supreme Court struck down DOMA! Everyone here is just so awesome and I love seeing the trolls get taken down.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Hey, USians — apparently DOMA has been ruled unconstitutional!

Ally S
7 years ago

“Yeah, it’s official: the filibuster worked. The bill is dead.”

Yay! Also, DOMA has been struck down. Double yay!

Ally S
7 years ago

Ninja’d!

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Hey-hey! I can’t wait to see what Scalia’s saying! (sarcasm: I totally can wait, because it’s going to be awful)

cloudiah
7 years ago

And they let the previous ruling on Prop 8 stand, which means same-sex marriage is legal in CA. I didn’t really expect them to go further.

At least the Supreme Court got one thing right this session. Voting rights is another story…

anadiomene122
anadiomene122
7 years ago

If someone insults something kinda minor about your physical appearance five minutes after giving you the once over, Game’s on. Or if they strain to work 50 Shades of Gray or Dexter into the conversation and then stare deeply into your eyes within minutes of meeting you… or start redpilling waitstaff or bartenders by acting like gigantic assholes to them, ostentatiously, then grinning at you. Or telling you weird and unlikely sounding sob stories about their childhood feels when you just met them five minutes ago. Or inappropriately touching you. You are being PUAed. It will almost always be a dorky-ish white guy who is wearing Axe body spray and clothes that don’t match his personality.

Literally everywhere I’ve gone out in the past year this has happened, often many times with inter PUA competition, and I’m not an HB10. At this point I can just about predict everything a PUA will say and do and even anticipate it (so now you’re going to say something about your parents divorcing when you were twelve…) Luckily “game” is extremely predictable and easy to turn around on people and get them to say/do things that make them look stupid and show that you’re onto them.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

Literally everywhere I’ve gone out in the past year this has happened, often many times with inter PUA competition, and I’m not an HB10.

I guess that at 36 I’m way too old to be PUA:d. I don’t go out a lot, but if I do and someone hits on me, it’s always some guy asking me what I do for a living, and when I say “philosopher” they start asking me about that and going on about how I must be really intelligent and profound and whatnot. I’ll freely admit that this would totally be an efficient strategy if I’d been single or in an open relationship, since I’m such a sucker for flattery… Insulting the way I look on the other hand? NFW.

emilygoddess
7 years ago

Sometimes I wish I had a reason to go to bars, because being hit on by PUAs sounds kind of entertaining. Or maybe I just get my misandrist kicks by rejecting men.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

The latter, Emily, obviously the latter!

Oh I just remembered, I’ve actually had two other, um, strategies employed at me during the last years. One guy who started singing “I wanna know what love is” to me on his knees, which was actually kind of funny since it was so incredibly over-the-top, and another guy who always came up to me when he was drunk and started talking about how beautiful my tattoos are (I have lots of tattoos on my arms), occasionally also grabbing my arms to rub them. The latter was kind of annoying, but I still take that any day to some moron just whipping his cock out and placing my hand on it by force.

katz
7 years ago

Wendy Davis is honestly one of the most incredible people I’ve ever seen.

House Davis: We Do Not Sit.

katz
7 years ago

Also, DOMA and Prop 8 overturned and on the same morning I get a Groupon for fireworks. Coincidence? I think not.

Hyena Girl
7 years ago

Ding Dong DOMA is Dead!

katz
7 years ago

Gosh, my penguin (whore spirits) are in Pierre! Thanks to my collaborator (I forgot who mentioned the whore spirits bit, sorry but woo hoo thanks)

Oh, was that your script? If so, I should add you to the byline.

Rowan
Rowan
7 years ago

So I haven’t read either the comments or the article…just kinda popping to say it almost looks like the guy in pink is doing ninja turtle cosplay.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
7 years ago

There’s this Swedish psychologist-turned-entertainer (he does mind-reading tricks) that wrote a PUA book some time ago, called “alla får ligga” (everyone gets laid). It’s apparently aimed at all genders and orientations, the idea being that the tricks are basically the same regardless. I haven’t read it, but I reckon it can’t be that bad, comparatively speaking, if he thinks men and women essentially works the same…

Might be tough for them to be a misogynistic douchenozzle, but it doesn’t stop them advocating manipulative or downright rapey behaviour, and therefore being a douchenozzle. It’s possible they didn’t – but the possibility of douchnozzlery is still there…

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
7 years ago

If DOMA is gone, doesn’t that open the door for full faith and credit cases between residents married in equal marriage states living in or moving to unequal marriage states? (Sorry, very US centric)

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

@opium4themasses

If I’m reading parts of the decision correctly, that’s EXACTLY what it does.

staceyjwsolar
staceyjwsolar
7 years ago

“some moron just whipping his cock out and placing my hand on it by force.”

Hate this. Happened to me at work, when I was a teenager. Got pulled into the sleeping bags (which hang up next to each other, lengthwise), and this creeper did just that.

The guy was about 25, super conservative, and spent all of his workdays either frothing about right wing stuff, or being sexually inappropriate and pushy. Totally gross. Harassment was part of every job I had as a teen, except ONE. Yuck. This was before widespread notions of sexual harassment being bad, and such existence of such HR classes (which I have taken at my adult jobs- Im 36 now).

I hate to think about all the new harassers PUA and MRAs are making.

staceyjwsolar
staceyjwsolar
7 years ago

edit function needed!^

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

I’m sorry that happened to you, Stacey. (I just mentioned it because it was apparently advice given out by this PUA who got funded by kickstarter, not because it had actually happened to me.)

Historophilia
Historophilia
7 years ago

Katz, I took the liberty of changing it from “We do not sit” to “We do not yield” in honor of her saying “I do not yield the floor” and made her a house sigil.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/c9b3ff814bea433c552ca6894235c62c/tumblr_mp0hieVtOZ1s5xmayo1_500.png

They didn’t have trainers on the sigil maker so I gave her a microphone instead.

historophilia
historophilia
7 years ago

I also made one for Leticia Van de Putte because she was awesome as well.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/ffd210622cd8bac72bc1dd32e19a9f78/tumblr_mp0i3gl0xz1s5xmayo1_500.png

katz
7 years ago

Historophilia: Very nice. Someone previously made this one and I was all like “WTF? A stiletto? Where’s the pink sneaker?”

Kittehserf
7 years ago

anadiomene – I now have the wonderful image of someone taking a PUA checklist with her to bars and starting to tick off items as the current douchenozzle trots them out.

I bet that would piss PUAs off mightily.

Screaming Fist
Screaming Fist
7 years ago

From the “Former MRA” article:

But some days I get burnt out thinking about and fighting about these horrible things that are going on everywhere every day. So I take a few hours and go to Powell’s or eat brunch and drink a beer and don’t even think about it. That’s what I feel guilty for. I can literally, at any time, stop dealing with oppression. Those being oppressed don’t get to do that.

That sounds like hell. But he’s a servile little feminist dog, gulping the dogma in great gulps, so that’s all that matters.

MRAs have too much self-respect.

katz
7 years ago

I know, caring about other people is such a drag.

Screaming Fist
Screaming Fist
7 years ago

No, it’s careful and deliberate guilt-trapping, built up through years of existence in a tacitly anti-male society and then activated by feminist groups. I might argue that it is a form of psychological terrorism.

Ally S
7 years ago

“No, it’s careful and deliberate guilt-trapping, built up through years of existence in a tacitly anti-male society and then activated by feminist groups. I might argue that it is a form of psychological terrorism.”

Can you at least try to not sound pretentious and stupid?

Ally S
7 years ago

“MRAs have too much self-respect.”

LOL

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

I dunno, I’m a feminist man and I don’t feel guilt-tripped. I also don’t feel that society is anti-male, or that I’m being psychologically terrorized for my manliness.

You hear that, Manboobzers! TRY HARDER!

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
7 years ago

Your posts!
They confuse me, Oh Shouting Hands.
Adjourn, explain, the lie of the land.

What sounds like hell, is to be a burnt out wreck?
To able to not deal with oppression, cut it off, say “To heck!”

That’s your Hell? Dante’d be proud (At least his version had more… Pathos).

He gulps down the dogma, except on days he don’t
So just because he’s decided he won’t
Be a victim of apathy
every day
That’s Hell! Sure, I’ll listen to what you have to say.

MRA’s have too much self respect!
The greatest denominator of this is their tremendous neglect!
Of words, wisdom and wit
And their predilection for using the word “shit”
It’s a tacitly anti-male society
And it’s run by anti-males of great pomposity
And this enormousity
is most diffidifososiity

MY LOGIC IS UNDENIABLE IN ITS MONSTROSITY.

Eh, I disagree.
It’s not too hard on me.
I’m pretty, you see – so the world is easier.

Because I’ve used my amazing wiles
to tame men and lead them down river wilds
so they crash and burn amidst the rapid rapids
And I like to gut them, like rabbits.

You get four pauses to realize that was a joke, and the world isn’t anti-male. q: