A couple of interesting reads:
Check out Escaping the Friendzone: The story of a former right-wing MRA on Jezebel Groupthink, a confessional mini-memoir by a dude who traces his “transition from misogynist, homophobic, right-wing MRA to raging intersectional feminist atheist leftist.”
Meanwhile, that guy who just got that rapey pickup manual funded by Kickstarter, Ken Hoinsky? Well, he’s apparently been quite upset by the criticism and is now pledging to make the manual entirely non-rapey. No, really. He met with the guy who started the petition about his book, and released an apology of sorts saying, among other things:
The concept that someone could interpret what I was writing to be a rape guide shocked me at first. But I took a long look in the mirror and absorbed all the great feedback coming in from across the Internet…
Here is what I realized: In the most offensive and controversial parts, I chose my words poorly. Very, very poorly. I meant one thing and people were reading another. THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. I needed to seriously evaluate every last word of my writing to make sure I wasn’t encouraging sexual assault in any way, shape, or form.
Ben Kassoy of DoSomething.Org … graciously offered to meet with me to provide alternate opinions and insights to help remove all of the potentially harmful advice. I am proud to say that his was the first of many meetings I will be having with anti-rape and anti-abuse organizations and experts to make sure that the advice I am offering is free of any tinge of sexual assault or rape vibes. I will be rewriting Above The Game under their guidance and insight.
Right here, on abovethegame.info, I will be starting an international dialogue on how we remove the negative stigma and shame that drives men to seek out seduction advice in the first place. My name may have been martyred in the press, but I will be using this opportunity for good.
The answer isn’t censoring all dialogue surrounding the issue ala Kickstarter’s statement on banning all men’s dating guide projects. Women’s rights and “male seduction guides” can and should coexist …
P.S. To my loyal followers from reddit, you should already be aware my writings are not intended to encourage rape. So rest assured the final book will be in the same style you are used to. I’m just taking us to the next level.
Frankly, it doesn’t sound like he’s really learned much of anything from the experience yet, but if he actually follows through with his promised meetings with anti-rape activists he might. We’ll just have to see how that goes.
Hurray for hope!
I guess a begrudging nod of approval is in order… for now.
I feel like if he continues to meet with and is actually interested in anti-rape and anti-violence awareness campaigns he’ll never release his book. Because if he’s actually interested in that, there’s going to be nothing left to publish to PUAs. I mean, he could publish a guide on how to act confident and meet people, but it wouldn’t resemble anything PUA I don’t think…
Kassoy’s going to have an easy job.
1. Dip entire manuscript in red ink.
2. Toss in trash and/or fireplace.
I don’t buy it. I’ve been tweeting about it. His “Field Reports” list events which are assault, and one which is borderline rape (he did listen when she told him to pull out).
and this:
He’s trying to figure out how to get “The women’s rights people” to help him “*justify* a low rent version of “Rape Game. He has said he hopes his work with them will get him a wider audience, and more credibility; outside the PUA community.
Yeah, I’m too cynical to believe this isn’t just a marketing ploy. I suppose it could be in theory possible to write a non-misogynistic dating guide for straight men that treats women like human beings — I’ve just never seen it.
Am I the last to notice that there’s a new Pierre? http://pierre.thecomicseries.com/comics/pl/313020
Part of me doesn’t buy it, but hey, it’s better than nothing.
I can’t say anything until he writes the next non-rapey version and its actually not rapey like he promised.
Bwahahaha!
Good new Pierre, Katz.
Hoinsky did an AMA on Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1h1o62/i_am_ken_hoinsky_ive_been_accused_of_promoting/
And it looks like he’s deleted all his replies, or maybe his whole account? Still visible here:
http://www.reddit.com/user/TofuTofu
I don’t buy it. I’ve seen too much of what these creeps promote. Their intention is to get laid and that’s it. Also from all I’ve read on PUA blogs I don’t see how you can separate misogyny from PUA. Their core beliefs stem from beliefs they have about “female nature” and how to manipulate it either psychologically, emotionally or in that freak Fartiste’s case- physically.
If he is indeed telling the truth, will it even be PUA? or just normal advice on how to attract a mate?
I don’t exactly buy this crap that he is just SHOCKED that his advice was at best promoting crossing boundaries and at worst, promoting sexual assault. I hate it when some men play dumb like this. On minute they’re gloating about how they are so rational, the next they say their shitty boundary crossing and harassment is just in their nature, why are people getting so upset GOSH.
Shitbags.
Also David, you should check out TyphoidBlue’s youtube. She made an apology video, apparently she’s the one who mixed up the screenshots in that whole Violence Against Men debacle.
I didn’t watch the video but she summarizes in the description.
If that is indeed true (which it probably isn’t) what’s with all the lying and fumbling beforehand? and the whole thing with screenshots crashing and adding words? and Google altering results? LOL.
That would be an interesting project, actually. The main obstacle would be that it really couldn’t be a “system,” as treating women as identical leads to treating them as objects.
Quackers! Has it been a while, or am I going blind?
Quackers, yeah, I’m going to write a correction/update to the screenshot posts.
@Falconer
Yeah it has been awhile 😛 I mainly have a bad habit of just dropping comments then taking off now (apologies if this seems rude) I have been kinda busy as of late though I still read Manboobz each day. I still lurk on manosphere sites though not as much, because I think I’ve reached the point where none of this surprises anymore. Nothing they say shocks me…I don’t know if that’s good or bad :/
Has anyone noticed a lot more discussion in the news about gender issues or is it just me?
@David
cool look forward to reading it!
I don’t buy this guy for a second after reading what Pecunium quoted. That is assault.
I actually think he might be trying to do it… for now. Once he realizes what no sexual assault or rape actually means, he’s going to be like “What the fuck is this shit?” and go back to what he was doing earlier.
I think that particular technique loses its effectiveness when we see it trotted out two or three times a week by people who are extremely distressed that they got caught being who they are.
@Cthulu’s Intern
Sounds most right so far. Dude’s going to have a hell of an ideological gap to cross and is going to basically have to scrap the whole thing. I’d give it a year at most before he starts complaining about how picky or hypocritical or something Our Feminist Overlords are and how mean they’ve been to him.
This is like taking a holocaust denial text to a group of actual historians or a jewish history group – conceivably you could rewrite it enough to fit in the more sensible paradigm, but it’d be a completely different text entirely but the time you’ve done that.
That’s the generic you, not you-as-in-Cthulu’s-Intern. I strongly doubt you have written holocaust-denial pamphlets or anything similar.
One of the other interesting things is the guys telling Amanda Marcotte that running game on women who know about it is a waste of time.
He says the rewriting is going to slow things down, but he expects to be publishing in August.
What’s sad is (on one of his pre-kerfluffle AMAs) he said that some legitimate publishers were interested.
Alright, just lost whatever hope I may have had for the fella. That just screams “oh no, better make some sort of dramatic effort into saving my rapey book’s PR so they someone could still buy it”.
Urgh. Yeah, no, not really buying.
As for guide on loving… bell hooks, motherfuckers. All About Love: New Visions. Not a dating guide, but it hammers down what love is, how to bring love into your life, and pulls no punches. Even GIGI read some, and Gigi doesn’t read anything that doesn’t involve horror.
I’m going to just keep reccing awesome shit whenever I see awful shit.