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feminism misogyny MRA PUA racism rape rape culture

From the mouths of trolls: Rape is unneccessary if you’ve got “game.”

bad_reason

So my Mighty White of You post — about the demographics of the Men’s Rights subreddit — drew the attention of Obsidian, a longtime Manosphere blogger who has been described by some of his comrades as “the Blackest Man of the Manosphere” (not that this is much of an accomplishment in that lily-white world). He stuck around for some not-terribly productive discussions of race and feminism, pickup artistry, and I can’t remember the rest because I just sort of stopped caring after a while.

But there was one thing he said — a passing remark in a long comment — that stood out to some of the commenters here, and which I thought was revealing enough to warrant highlighting in a post:

I don’t support rape for a very simple reason – because it’s not necessary. A Man with Game doesn’t need to rape anyone.

That … is not a good reason to “not support” rape.

Really, that’s probably the worst reason to “not support” rape besides “I don’t have enough time in my busy schedule to rape anyone today” or “I might muss up my new suit raping someone.”

Do you really need to search for reasons to “not support” rape beyond, you know, the idea that violating other people for your own selfish pleasure is wrong?

PUAs: Even the ones who aren’t directly advocating sexual assault have some pretty fucked up ideas about rape.

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dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

guffaw-ferrets: Nope, I’m just generic mongrel European of the “descended from some rednecks and West Virginians at some point I guess” variety. I know I’m a good sampling of the British Isles with a large slice of German, and TBH I’m not entirely sure what else.

But yeah, I was pretty confused about the whole Cajun thing; I kind of assumed Argenti was Cajun and wanted more results than zirs? It was a bit of a mess of confusion, lol.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Ah poop, it was guffaw-ferrets who’s part Cajun and I directed my comments at Deste. Have I mentioned that I need sleep?

Sorry for the confusion guys (and I’m a boring mix of European, only bit that isn’t ages ago is Italian, and even that was turn of last century)

pecunium
11 years ago

This is why PUAs are, at their least harmful (some least) rape enablers.

The Boiling Frog Principle of Boundary Testing

Rapists look for the spots where boundaries cannot or will not be enforced. They don’t really care why. They are opportunists. They do what works. They can’t be changed. And we sure can’t wait around for the people who can’t defend their boundaries to change it; they’re doing what they can with what they have where they are. More than that, the boundary violations tend to work by degrees, so that the little ones build the foundation for the big ones, and by the time the rape happens the rapist stands on a stepladder of disempowerment. What we as a wider community need to do, if we care about solving the problem, is to take down the ladder. We need to look for the places where boundaries can’t and won’t be enforced … and fix them. We can’t start when and where the rapes happen. We have to start at the beginning. We have to believe that bodily autonomy is a human right, and that the little violations matter. If the whole culture believed that, it might not end all rape, but it would end a culture where rape is normalized and generally unpunished.

Boundary violations are at the heart of all Game; just look at what ObFiles is preaching, and without shame. He brags of it. He’s proud of being a predator.

And he encourages rape.

guffaw-ferrets
guffaw-ferrets
11 years ago

LOL no problem, I’m posting slightly buzzed right now myself and definitely added to the group confusion. No hard feelings between anyone!

Also dustydestes — hahaha that describes most of my hometown demographic to a T. Regional genetic interplays are way too fussy for a survey format, but they’re very fascinating to me.

j
j
11 years ago

WELL, since most PUA “game” is basically serial rape with silly hats I’m really unsure about what that statement even means on a practical level.

“Pshh, OUR sexual harrasment is so much more dignified and /civilized/ than all those knaves” *Takes sip of earl grey tea and farts loudly

j
j
11 years ago

Also is this just me or did everyone here burst out laughing at “because it’s not necessary”.

Either this guy is just so amazing at convincing inebriated women with low self-esteem to sleep with him that to conceive of not getting laid for any reason is a totally foreign concept… or he’s just talking nonsense to make everyone think he’s /just that good at banging chicks/.

My money’s on the latter btw

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Option 3 — he doesn’t actually care if he gets laid
Option 4 — he’s already got a steady partner and is just another huckster

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Survey question! One of my wonderful guinea pigs has posed the idea of doing another set of religion questions for religious background // how you were raised. I could do it easily enough, and kinda like the idea, but I’m worried it’d get silly long because the religion list is silly long. Yes // no?

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

@Argenti – You could just do a yes/no question for whether people were raised in the same religion they subscribe to currently, and if no, then answer the long question, which would cut down on the very long question for at least some people.

I like the idea, though. It’s always an interesting thing to see.

SittieKitty
11 years ago

Argenti, you could do something like:

Were you raised with religion? Y/n

If you were raised with religion was it an abrahamic religion? Y/n

If you were raised with religion scale 1-10 how much did it affect your upbringing?

Scale 1-10 how much do you think your upbringing re: religion affected who you are today? Would you say that affect is positive or negative or neutral?

Or something like that, that’s just top of my head…

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
11 years ago

I’ve been thinking about it, and I realized the reason I can’t grok that Obsidian Files thinks women are human is because he did not apologize even once for casually putting his “need” to get laid over other people’s bodily autonomy.

And don’t give me that “it was a throwaway comment” shit. You know that’s just an excuse. Like, how does one not grok that casual comments are more revealing about a person’s motives and views than comments made in a defensive context?

Personally, I fully expect to be held accountable for things I say casually, not only but especially for something as dehumanizing as “I don’t need to rape, I’m good with Game.”

What the fuck makes you think you’re different, O?

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“Were you raised with religion? Y/n

If you were raised with religion was it an abrahamic religion? Y/n

If you were raised with religion scale 1-10 how much did it affect your upbringing?”

Hmm, I can work with that. Need to check something but I think I can do “was it different than your current religion” and if yes direct to another page with the list repeated…

pecunium
11 years ago

I don’t feel comfortable with singling out the Abrahamic religions in that way. Different to present practice is good.

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

You could just use the short list, which would give an idea of whether people change drastically (to a different group) or in a more minor manner (movement within the same group of religions).

I also like the 1-10 scale of how much of an affect it had.

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

Dammit, effect, not affect. Bluh.

Aaliyah
11 years ago

I think that this proposed question

“If you were raised with religion scale 1-10 how much did it affect your upbringing?”

should be clarified. Religion can affect one’s upbringing in many ways. If this is trying to gauge the frequency of people who had a strongly religious upbringing in regards to personal values and beliefs, I think it should be something more like this:

“If you were raised with religion, how significant (on a scale from 1-10) was the religion’s influence on your personal values and beliefs?”

Aaliyah
11 years ago

“I don’t feel comfortable with singling out the Abrahamic religions in that way. Different to present practice is good.”

I partially agree. I’m not uncomfortable in any way with it, but I do think that the distinction is unnecessary.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Pecunium — yeah I’m in the middle of duplicating all of it. Which would go a lot faster if THE FUCKING MAC WASN’T BEING STUPID.

Aaliyah — I like your version, it’s more specific (and do we really care if I still celebrate Christmas as winter gift giving day? Yeah, no, no we don’t)

khantron
khantron
11 years ago

OF’s refrain of “Look, I don’t advocate for rape in this particular article,” really isn’t the defense, he seems to think it is.

khantron
khantron
11 years ago

Shit. I misplaced a comma :/

auggziliary
auggziliary
11 years ago

Maybe have “are you a feminist” on there, since some lurkers might be on the fence between those “true equality” movements and feminism.
Also for shits and giggles, “kill all men?” with the options “yes” and “yes” would be funny.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“Maybe have “are you a feminist” on there, since some lurkers might be on the fence between those “true equality” movements and feminism.”

Ehh, maybe?

“Also for shits and giggles, “kill all men?” with the options “yes” and “yes” would be funny.”

Once I stop swearing at my Mac, that,s going in the smart ass section.

becausescience
becausescience
11 years ago

I don’t support rape for a very simple reason – because it’s not necessary. A Man with Game doesn’t need to rape anyone.

– Obsidian Files

Just a few horrible things that are implied by the above statement:

1. You need reasons to not support rape.

2. Rape being “not necessary” is a reason to not support rape.

3. A man without game would “need” to rape people.

4. Men commit rape because they’re not getting sex.

Taken in combination with his “Men only learn sleazy pickup tactics because feminists aren’t helping them get laid!!” comment in the other thread, it seems like Obsidian Douche feels it’s women’s responsibility to make sure men are getting the sex they’re entitled to. If women won’t give these men the sex, then the men are justified in trying to “game” them into bed, using an array of tactics intended to “mess with women’s heads”, lower their self-esteem, get “compliance” from them, and otherwise disarm that meddlesome person standing in the way of the vagina that the man feels he’s entitled to. Barring that, rape is an option, though Obsidian would rather guys learn “game” so that rape isn’t necessary. Because presumably otherwise it would be.

Aaliyah
11 years ago

Pecunium — yeah I’m in the middle of duplicating all of it. Which would go a lot faster if THE FUCKING MAC WASN’T BEING STUPID.

Join the Ubuntu side. We have cookies. And more kittens.

becausescience
becausescience
11 years ago

Also it appears being a “master pickup artist” means spending your weekends making dozens of bloviating, longwinded posts arguing with people in comments sections on multiple blogs, to the point where at least one of the blog owners has to give you a warning that you’ll be put on moderation because you’re commenting too much.

That’s right fellas, for the low, low price of just $19.95 this incredible lifestyle awaits you!