So you may have heard about that Kickstarter that raised $16,000 for a loathsome Reddit PUA’s “handbook on how to bully women who don’t like you into sex, while preserving your claims to believe you had consent should you need to tell the police,” as Amanda Marcotte aptly described it in her post on it yesterday. Slate’s Alyssa Rosenberg also has some thoughts on it.
I don’t really have anything to add.
There’s a petition up demanding that Kickstarter simply refuse to fund what is essentially a how-to guide to sexual assault. Last I checked, it had gotten nearly 60,000 signatures.
EDITED TO ADD: Casey Malone, who wrote the blog post that brought this awful project to the attention of people outside of the sleazier corners of Reddit, wrote Kickstarter about it and got a response suggesting that Kickstarter, while planning to go ahead and fund the project, will be reexamining its policies as a result of the controversy. Malone posted some further thoughts.
EDITED AGAIN: Kickstarter has offered an apology. You can find it here. But I’m just going to repost the whole thing:
Dear everybody,
On Wednesday morning Kickstarter was sent a blog post quoting disturbing material found on Reddit. The offensive material was part of a draft for a “seduction guide” that someone was using Kickstarter to publish. The posts offended a lot of people — us included — and many asked us to cancel the creator’s project. We didn’t.
We were wrong.
Why didn’t we cancel the project when this material was brought to our attention? Two things influenced our decision:
- The decision had to be made immediately. We had only two hours from when we found out about the material to when the project was ending. We’ve never acted to remove a project that quickly.
- Our processes, and everyday thinking, bias heavily toward creators. This is deeply ingrained. We feel a duty to our community — and our creators especially — to approach these investigations methodically as there is no margin for error in canceling a project. This thinking made us miss the forest for the trees.
These factors don’t excuse our decision but we hope they add clarity to how we arrived at it.
Let us be 100% clear: Content promoting or glorifying violence against women or anyone else has always been prohibited from Kickstarter. If a project page contains hateful or abusive material we don’t approve it in the first place. If we had seen this material when the project was submitted to Kickstarter (we didn’t), it never would have been approved. Kickstarter is committed to a culture of respect.
Where does this leave us?
First, there is no taking back money from the project or canceling funding after the fact. When the project was funded the backers’ money went directly from them to the creator. We missed the window.
Second, the project page has been removed from Kickstarter. The project has no place on our site. For transparency’s sake, a record of the page is cached here.
Third, we are prohibiting “seduction guides,” or anything similar, effective immediately. This material encourages misogynistic behavior and is inconsistent with our mission of funding creative works. These things do not belong on Kickstarter.
Fourth, today Kickstarter will donate $25,000 to an anti-sexual violence organization called RAINN. It’s an excellent organization that combats exactly the sort of problems our inaction may have encouraged.
We take our role as Kickstarter’s stewards very seriously. Kickstarter is one of the friendliest, most supportive places on the web and we’re committed to keeping it that way. We’re sorry for getting this so wrong.
That is an apology. Some people could learn a thing or two from this.
We’re in Calgary and thankfully all of us and those we care about are safe and sound. We moved last week, but our old home is next to the evacuation area. We’re just praying hard that it doesn’t flood!
So far there are no reported deaths, and there are lots of open doors for those in need. The courthouse even took in the tigers from the zoo – bad day to be in lockup!
My heart aches for this city. The hockey arena is underwater up to row 14 and the rodeo grounds are decimated. There is talk there will be no Calgary Stampede this year.
Thank you all for your kind wishes, and if there are any Calgary area Manboobzers that need a place to stay – our new place has lots of room. Kittehs, critters, children etc all welcome. Even if you just need a place to land your fur children for a few days, our doors are open. Email me at sarahollohan at shaw dot ca if you need a place, I’m always close to my email.
I heard the entire town of High River is under water and evacuated. It would be a shame if the Stampede was cancelled. I can’t believe how much it’s flooded…
[20 seconds with google later.] Oh, fuck. Sorry, everyone.
Was thinking of some half-remembered cartoon sidekick critter thing, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t from a problematic source, and definitely doesn’t excuse it. I’ll be over in the corner reading for a bit longer.
@Newt I am going to need you to double down on that. Only one apology allowed per post comment section and Kickstarter has used that voucher.
Fun fact about all of you saying about how Dr. Nerdlove gives feminist advice for meeting and dating women: I’m pretty sure Obsidian already knows about him. How about you take a look at the bulk of the comment thread on this particular article:
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2013/06/high-status-man/
Obtuse is way overdue for the banhammer. This is a rape manual and he’s saying it’s needed.
No, no! Don’t ban him yet! If we do, we can’t see him defend what he says by shifting goalposts and saying “It’s not what I think, it’s what science (read: one evolutionary psychologist) says!” just like in that aforementioned DNL thread.
Glad to hear you’re alright Halite, and best wishes for a flood-free house.
I think I’ve read enough rape apologists for one lifetime; this one won’t have anything new to say.
Since Savage was mentioned earlier in the post… was I the only one really horrified by this? I just picked it up in the little paper when me and hubby got frozen yogurt, and I read this as being a really creepy obliteration of the distinctions between fantasy and reality.
Help me out, Boobzers. Is this article actually saying that it’s totally fine to act as though your incest play is actually real, and involve other people in it who think it’s real, as long as it isn’t? Surely I understood this wrong, and I want someone to reassure me that people aren’t actually saying that.
LBT: yeah, that seems to be what Savage is saying. Fucking gross either way–the incest stuff and involving someone in your kink by lying.
That is exactly what Savage is saying. He also seems to say that it’s totally fine for people to actually do taboo things in pornography, because it’s a vent for the ones watching it – a dubious claim at best, I would think.
Even if the guy listening to this creep on the phone isn’t going to rape anyone, if he believes it’s really incest he’s listening to, then he’s getting off on a girl or woman being raped by her father. So he’s supporting incest by doing that, unless (oh, I hope) he’s trying to trace the call and get this creep arrested. It’d serve Mr Incest Fantasy right if he were arrested.
RE: hellkell and Kittehs
URGGGGGH. Yeah, like, I’m totally down with fantasy. I know kinky people. What gives me the screaming skeezy-meemies is not just saying, “Oh, by the way guys, this is a FANTASY. We play these roles, but are both fully consenting adults.” What kind of shitty fantasy is so fragile it can’t handle even the slightest disclaimer?
Pretending it’s real, and that it’s totally a-OK to have other people involved who think it’s real, just scares the shit out of me. I ran into incest groups like this in the cisgay online community, and they gave me the D: too. Am I seriously the only person who views the laying down of boundaries and consent actually a GOOD thing, and not just a dull necessity that ruins all the fun?
Welp, I’m definitely not a fan of Savage now.
It’s incredibly irresponsible IMO for Savage not to be pointing out what you just said, LBT. Instead he chose to give a derail about how maybe people who have the fantasy wouldn’t do the real thing. Um, so what, Dan?
I do not miss seeing that smug fucker out and about in my old neighborhood.
There are 3 confirmed deaths in Calgary (at 9 pm Alberta time). The weather gods seem to be hating Alberta these days.
Poor Calgary … hope nobody else is killed or badly hurt. 🙁
“Am I seriously the only person who views the laying down of boundaries and consent actually a GOOD thing, and not just a dull necessity that ruins all the fun?”
Abolutely not, LBT!
So much of what I’ve heard about Savage says he’s a douchecanoe most of the time.
I hope all our Calgary peeps are high and dry.
I used to read Dan Savage regularly, including most of his books, and I’ve always thought that if he wasn’t gay, he’d be a pretty staunch Republican. He’s got that bone-deep certainty that he’s right, and everyone who disagrees with him is wrong and stupid.
Unimaginative – ewww.
Yeah. Like, he was already not in my best graces with his stances on being ace, but that was definitely the clincher, because it was the first time I actually sat and read something of his, with no commentary, and on my own went, “OH SWEET MOTHERFUCK.”
Also sending good hopes for the Calgary folk.
Yeah, I think the problem here is not that what he said was wrong per se, but that it was the wrong thing to say. He took a 100% practical approach, the assumption being that, if it doesn’t lead to real incest, it’s A-OK. But that’s certainly not my approach to morality (even setting incest aside, does he always think it’s OK to lie to people as long as it doesn’t lead to an actual crime as a result?).
Also, who in God’s name would agree to listen to someone they thought was committing incest? Call the cops on that guy.
LBT – gods, I hate to think what Savage’s take on being ace is. Imaginary? For losers to pretend they don’t want to get laid? Because after all the only thing in life is to get the mighty peen shoved in somewhere, innit?
RE: Kittehserf
He does believe it exists, but from what I understand, he feels that it is wrong for ace folk to date sexual folk. It’s been a while, and I’m getting groggy, but I recall mostly feeling uncomfortable, since one of the reasons I resisted dating Mac at first was because I felt that since I couldn’t fill his sexual needs, he would naturally have to cheat on me or go poly, and I knew I couldn’t deal with that.
It was just… icky. And while I agree that in a magical ideal world, you’d tell potential partners you were ace beforehand, I didn’t even know asexuality EXISTED until AFTER I was dating Mac. It’s kind of hard to come out WHEN YOU DON’T KNOW IT EXISTS. (Not at all helped by the snide wankers who think people who’re ace are just doing it to be special.)
RE: katz
Also, who in God’s name would agree to listen to someone they thought was committing incest?
I KNOW RIGHT? I mean, Jesus Christ! If me and hubby were doing that and someone was obviously getting off on the idea it was real, sex would be the LAST thing on my mind. I’d be horrified!
Kitteh’s: he’s not kind to asexuals. Bi people and fat people are also on his shitlist.