So here’s an interesting chart. Guess what it represents?
A) The membership of the David Duke Fan Club
B) The racial breakdown of the most successful Liberace impersonators
C) The demographics of the Men’s Rights subreddit
Well, ok, that was too easy. It is of course all of the above. I’m guessing. It’s definitely C, at least, as this chart was prepared to show the results of the 2013 Men’s Rights subreddit demographic survey.
Now, you might say, well, isn’t Reddit itself a pretty white place? And you would be right. But the Men’s Rights subreddit seems to be a bit whiter — and a lot less black — than Reddit as a whole, if Quantcast’s estimates of Reddit’s overall ethnic breakdown are accurate.
In other completely non-surprising news, 89% of Men’s Rights Redditors are men. And a lot of them are libertarians. MRAs complain endlessly that we pigeonhole them as a bunch of entitled white dudes. They’re really not doing much to challenge that assumption.
The most important issue to these fellas (and the small minority that aren’t fellas)? Survey says: False rape accusations.
Other critical issues to the Men’s Rightsers include “custody rights” (which is a bit odd because 92% of those surveyed have no kids), “legal discrimination” (whatever that means), “education discrimination” (this is a thing?), and “male disposability.”
“Male birth control” and “paper abortion,” while relatively less important to the Men’s Rightsers, each got hundreds of votes.
I’m surprised “friendzoning” isn’t at the top of the list, but unfortunately it wasn’t one of the choices. I blame misandry.
O: LOL. Nice try and your dodge is noted; This shit? You asked a quesetion, “how is feminism different from the MRM?” You got an answer.
If you wanted to ask, “why is the makeup of feminism not relevant, if the makeup of the MRM is”, then you need to ask that.
But, since you seem to think this is a thing, I’ll answer that question (and not that you didn’t actually respond to the points made about the substantive differences claimed about the MRM and Feminism).
Feminism is largely white. it’s a drawback, and feminists know this. It’s why we listen to Pam’s House Blend, and read bell hooks, and pay attention to Toni Morrison, and celebrate Maya Angelou (to focus on black women in feminism).
The MRM doesn’t seem to give a shit. They prattle about. “thug-lovers” and complain about “welfare mommas” and other racist dog-whistles. They don’t just ignore blacks, they attack them.
That’s the difference; on that front.
OF,
Feminism (2) addresses Male Gender Roles (10), which also takes care of Negative portrayal in the media (9), and, tangentially, by addressing what the primary caregiver of children should be and working toward changing that default perception that women are the ones who should be taking care of children, which relates to Father’s Rights (1) and part 2 of (4) Removing the Notion That All Men Are Potential Pedophiles. [Un]Surprisingly, by working on rape culture and recognizing the issues inherent in the widespread violence against women, feminism also works at (4) Removing the Notion That All Men Are Potential Rapists.
I should like to see what “Better Treatment of Men Regarding False Accusations” (6) actually means? Without working on reducing the frequency of rape I’m not sure how this could even be used, especially since false rape accusations are actually less than other violent crimes like assault and/or battery. Again, [un]surprisingly, this is despite the fact that 5-15% of sexual assaults are even reported, which makes the actual number of false accusations vanishingly small.
Regarding Educating Boys (8), men are able to acquire jobs with a lower standard of education than women doing the same work. In other words, women require more education than men in order to get the exact same job. Once again, feminists work on this.
Making Government Programs Gender-Neutral or Accompanied by a Male Equivalent (7), would need to be explained in a more detailed way for me to be able to address it, as I’m not entirely certain what the complaint is. Ditto with Anti-Male Double Standards (3).
Reproductive Rights (5) is being worked on by many scientists, and there is a reversible birth control option currently undergoing human trials.
@Argenti:
“1) which is why there’s a parallel Womanist movement.”
O: Oh, you mean why the Black Feminists have been segregated? There, fixed that for ya.
“2) oh gods not Jezebel, anyone who publishes Hugo Motherfucking Schwyzer has blown all feminist cred out the window”
O: How do you explain the slew of other blogs and sites, many of whom appear on Dave’s blogroll?
“3) I’m working on making a survey, cuz it’s this or reading more of LBT’s writing and I need a break from being emotionally punched in the gut”
O: By all means do let us know the results? Thanks!
O.
Obsidian Files – appreciate the list. I’m curious to know what, if any, actions those of you in the Men’s Right’s community are taking to bring about change in any of those areas. Honest question.
I will note that although feminism is listed as the #2 concern on the list, feminism is also concerned with many of the other list items (male gender roles, etc). Some people in your movement may misunderstand what feminism, by and large, is about – we’ve certainly seen that demonstrated over and over (here and elsewhere). What exactly are the concerns you have aboue feminism? Maybe we can lay some of them to rest?
Hahaha!
“Femosphere?” Oh and, “…loud and florid protestations….?” Jesus, writing is not your thing. You need another hobby. What about pickling? Or basket weaving?
“In this, at least the Manosphere is a far sight more honest about theirs.”
Really? Can I see an example?
lmao, katz, 11km. I remember that thread. That’s the best answer ever.
Hmm…African American is, you know, American. Use the PC person of color? Or suggestions?
I admit to being charmed by how our stone troll not only signs the end of every post (in a format that looks like he’s giving us funny eyes) but also puts his initial as an attribution in front of everything he says, as though he’s always quoting something he said somewhere else.
God knows if you don’t include your initial in your post at least twice, no one will know it’s from you.
k.
k.
Didn’t PPT get banned? I’m sending an email to
Daveme.katz, you should have signed that:
k?
k.
-SK. Total Professional.
“@Argenti:
“1) which is why there’s a parallel Womanist movement.”
O: Oh, you mean why the Black Feminists have been segregated? There, fixed that for ya.”
Self-segregated and welcome in all the feminist communities I take seriously. Considering how inclusive everyone here is about sexuality and trans* issues and everything else, I’m guessing that’s what most people here think — as pecunium said, we give a shit about feminism’s white history and want to change that.
3) dude, I’m still asking opinions on the questions! Help me out if you want to see results, got an opinion on any of my suggestions?
Who is this comment from? I can’t tell. It’s only signed once.
It’s a glitch.
-SK.
Argenti, about the survey:
-Even age brackets, please and thank you. I hate it when survey results are like “The 25-49 age range was larger than the 18-24 age range.”
-Obviously flexibility about gender; flexibility about race would be nice too, like the option to multiselect. My other pet peeve is when Middle Eastern gets lumped in with White, because Middle Easterners totally get treated the same as white people, especially in America, amirite?
-Make sure to ask what pets we own. Not just for completeness but also in your capacity as Senior News Director for Fish.
RE: Argenti
I’m working on making a survey, cuz it’s this or reading more of LBT’s writing and I need a break from being emotionally punched in the gut
*cackles maniacally*
Seriously, though, I should’ve linked you to the lighter, fluffier stuff. It’s not ALL gutpunch and paaaaaain. (There’s a reason M.D., Thomas, and Raige have been my MSTers for eight years.)
Obsidian Files:
Ok. The MRA community is mostly white. Stormfront* is mostly white. What’s the difference between the two?
Or were you asking a different question, and just phrased it incorrectly (why is race important)? Most people here are aware that 1st and 2nd wave feminism was shit with regards to non-white women, non-middle/upper class women, trans* women, disabled women etc. Generally, 3rd wave tries to be more inclusive, though I’d say there are still some issues to be ironed out.
Plus, the MRA totally needs more kitties.
Re: the reddit survey was very US-centric. The political choices… hello? The rest of the world isn’t divided into republican/democrat/libertarian/independent.
Argenti: pet question needs to be on the survey!
“-Even age brackets, please and thank you. I hate it when survey results are like “The 25-49 age range was larger than the 18-24 age range.”
Me too. Me fucking too. I’m just debating whether to set them as 25-34 or 20-29. And 65+ or continue straight to 95-105 and 105+?
“-Obviously flexibility about gender; flexibility about race would be nice too, like the option to multiselect. My other pet peeve is when Middle Eastern gets lumped in with White, because Middle Easterners totally get treated the same as white people, especially in America, amirite?”
I’ve got Caucasian, Africian American (or African not-American), Hispanic, Asian, Indigenous (eg Native American), Pacific Islander and Other so far. Adding Middle Eastern now. Any advice on the incredibly awkward African not-American wording?
And yeah, I want gender to be inclusive and not remotely “what’s in your pants/skirt/kilt?”
“-Make sure to ask what pets we own. Not just for completeness but also in your capacity as Senior News Director for Fish.”
Of course!
And I’m not doing the cookies so you can only do it once option, I’m trusting you guys to not spam it so Sneak and Mac and the rest can fill it out if they want. (The kids have opinions on the age or gender options?)
LBT — I like the emotional pull, I just need it in small doses…already done enough fingering my own scars today >.< (in a way, I’m proud of them, for the same reason I’d imagine M.D. could be someday — they’ve…it’s…I’m alive because of how I got them might be the easiest way to word it?)
Fuck *I* forgot disability? How should I word that? I don’t want just yes/no since I’ve the perk of invisible disability with the drawback of stigma once I open my mouth // get all mentally I’ll behavior like. (Lol, see previous comment!)
And politics? Liberal // moderate // conservative?
Best question: If you were a cat, what breed would you be.
I think politics will be a hard one, because depending on the country liberal/conservative means different things.
Disability should be at least split into physical and neuro, imo.
“what’s in your pants/skirt/kilt?”
Lessee… wallet, knife, phone, keys, loose change.
I’d like to see a narrower age range, perhaps five year increments.
““what’s in your pants/skirt/kilt?””
Let’s see, screwed-up tissue, mobile phone, receipts, prolly cat fur.
… Oh, you didn’t mean in the pockets?