So here’s an interesting chart. Guess what it represents?
A) The membership of the David Duke Fan Club
B) The racial breakdown of the most successful Liberace impersonators
C) The demographics of the Men’s Rights subreddit
Well, ok, that was too easy. It is of course all of the above. I’m guessing. It’s definitely C, at least, as this chart was prepared to show the results of the 2013 Men’s Rights subreddit demographic survey.
Now, you might say, well, isn’t Reddit itself a pretty white place? And you would be right. But the Men’s Rights subreddit seems to be a bit whiter — and a lot less black — than Reddit as a whole, if Quantcast’s estimates of Reddit’s overall ethnic breakdown are accurate.
In other completely non-surprising news, 89% of Men’s Rights Redditors are men. And a lot of them are libertarians. MRAs complain endlessly that we pigeonhole them as a bunch of entitled white dudes. They’re really not doing much to challenge that assumption.
The most important issue to these fellas (and the small minority that aren’t fellas)? Survey says: False rape accusations.
Other critical issues to the Men’s Rightsers include “custody rights” (which is a bit odd because 92% of those surveyed have no kids), “legal discrimination” (whatever that means), “education discrimination” (this is a thing?), and “male disposability.”
“Male birth control” and “paper abortion,” while relatively less important to the Men’s Rightsers, each got hundreds of votes.
I’m surprised “friendzoning” isn’t at the top of the list, but unfortunately it wasn’t one of the choices. I blame misandry.
@Argenti
I know I’m several pages behind and I’m sorry if this has been mentioned, but can you see the timestamps on submitted surveys? And/or maybe have people include their names on their surveys? You’d be the only one to see them (or you and whoever else crunches the data), and you’d be able to sort the people with good reasons for multiple submissions in a short time (Fade/Marie, LBT) from the spammers.
I can see flaws in these suggestions – how do you sort a troll from, say, a multiple system who’ve only lurked or haven’t been out? And there’s the anonymity issue on a page heavily policed by aggressive harassers – but maybe someone can build on it.
@Namegoeshere:
“Jebus, one of Obsidian’s links to Roissy has people talking about which national facial composite has the best “dick-sucking lips” and the like. Whenever I’m sure I’ve scrubbed all memories of that place off my mind…”
O: Yea, interesting post, wasn’t it? That was one of many, that I’ve directly addressed in terms of its rank racism and downright meanspiritedness. And I have many, many others.
“Yeah, Obs, the way some women talk about and even treat short men (initially, at least) is pretty shitty, no doubt, so I’ll give you that – I’ve seen it first hand. Indeed, on that very point and in my experience at least (so anecdata, take it as you will), women who describe themselves as “feminists” or have some connection to “feminism” seem to be much less likely to have such hang-ups about height and the like and to be more aware of such issues.”
O: Keywords “seem to be” – and that’s just it, isn’t it? No one really does know, do they? And, why aren’t Feminists raising the consciousness of their fellow sisters about their treatment of short(er) guys? Do they not know the pain and angush they cause such Men, for something completely out of their control? Isn’t that a form of discrimination? Aren’t they being part and parcel of patriarchal, traditionalist masculine views and norms?
“Of course, this is a separate issue from initial physical attraction; there’s a difference between not being able to help that and to talk or act like an asshole about it. I’m not an underwear model either anyway so I’m not exactly speaking from a position of privilege on this matter.”
O: Sure there is! To let the Feminists tell it, beauty and the like, is socially constructed and Men should have the power to control their base desires, and instead channel them into less conventionally attractive Women. To which I say, fair enough – so, where’s all the talk about encouraging Women, to do same when it comes to Men? I mean, by your own admission, that would be a welcome thing for you, right?
Right?
“(inb4, “we’ve covered all that dipshit, read more carefully”. this thread is fucking huge, man)”
O: Not as huge as quite a few others here at MB…
O.
Where? Put up or shut up, dingbat.
Lord knows you’re an idiot, so this lack of comprehension is unsurprising, but feminists do not sit around arguing about men needing to date people that are outside the conventional beauty standards (at least most of them don’t). Contrary to what you and your MRA buddies believe, treat people who aren’t conventionally attractive with respect /= date them. I haven’t dated anyone who would be considered fat by most people, I still manage to treat fat women like fellow, equal human beings..
emilygoddess — I think we’ve worked it out, anyone worried about getting caught in it can email their results to David (or me, if they have my email) and I’ll add it manually. It’s not great, but it should work.
It’ll probably just be me crunching the data, I work better alone (lol, this is part of how the pharm student // not-an-ex and I met — lab partners with a healthy sense of who’s good at what [lit review, I fucking hate it])
And yes, VitaminWater is totally the biggest feminist issue of our time!
Argenti: ZeroWater 4 Lyfe!
Actually, in a year, I’ve seen only a handful break 1,000 comments, so yeah, this thread is rapidly becoming fucking huge.
And I’m just throwing this out, y’all can determine if it’s sticky, but st of those were 90% sock, a particularly short one.
Argenti: if you need another set of eyes, just add gmail to my nym and send it off.
Where? Put up or shut up, dingbat.
Straw-Feminist, Cruella D., Made Up Shit that Feminists Never Say (Fairyland: Assdata Books, 19-fucking never), pp. 1-24576352463.
@Kiki:
“O-Colon, I don’t give a fuck about the title of the thread.”
O: LOL, that much is quite clear…
“You have said on here that you support the MRM despite its frequent and ‘blatant’ (your word) racism.”
O: I have; should the Tuskeegee Airmen NOT have served this country, then? Because that is the argument you’re making. Think about it…
“The demographics of Manboobz are entirely irrelevant to this.”
O: No, they’re not. In fact, Dave and the gang don’t have a heck of a lot to stand on in this regard, since the best evidence we have to date suggests strongly, that MB is at least as White as the very MRA Reddit he and the rest of you are excoriating. I wonder if the percentage of Black participation here is over or under 2%?
Hmm…
O.
@Argenti
Actually, following trollboy’s logic, the biggest feminist issue of today is that men prefer to date women that are shorter than them. Clearly feminism is a giant fail because it has not worked to correct this post haste. Or it could just mean that feminism is an actual social justice movement, rather than a hobby.
kiki: I love citations from the Bog Book of Assfax.
Please look at the title of the post – it says, “Might WHITE of You” – NOT, “Mighty WHITE RACIST of You”. Dave is clearly making the case that the MRA community as they are defined on Reddit, is overwhelmingly White.
yep. And then you went on to say that Feminism was too, so what’s the difference, and we said it was because the ways in which feminism deals with that,and the ways the MRM deals with it, are different.
And you went, “nunh-unh”
And now you are pretending that’s not been the discussion, what with you dismissing Sojourner Truth, and confusing the background radiation level of racism in the US with an antipathy and absolute disdain for WOC.
As I said, you’re an idiot. You can’t manage to keep track of what you said, don’t read what we say and seem to think we can’t go back a page or two to see what was said when you lie about it.
^Big
I don’t find skinny women attractive and I’ve only slept with more or less chubby ones, but I somehow still manage to respect my own skinny self! 😛
@Kiki:
“Not getting emotional – I just felt that the naughty word was necessary to fully convey the extent of your jaw-dropping idiocy. I apologise if I harmed your poor, sensitive widdle bravehero ears.”
O: No offence taken; was just wanting to be sure you didn’t need the fainting couch brought out…
“And if feminists wanted to address ‘this major problem’, they would have to boycott the vast majority of products, which would be somewhat impractical.”
O: They wouldn’t need to boycott *all* of them – they could be strategic about it, like SNCC, the NAACP etc, did during the Civil Rights era. Black folks broke the back of Jim Crow by being very smart and targetted in how they went about measures like boycotts and so forth. The Feminists can do the same thing.
Right?
“Why, I would guess that many if not most of the products you use have some link to racism (do you know that Colgate produce a toothpaste, not for sale in the US, called ‘Darkie’, with a picture of a black guy on the front?)”
O: I’ve heard; which is why I don’t use them…
“but I don’t imagine you’d ever boycott… oh sorry, I forgot you don’t really have a problem with supporting racists.”
O: See above…and nice dodge as to why Feminists consume products on the regular that are a part and parcel of the Patriarchy…
O.
And we have clueless misdirection for the win:
Show me the feminist complaining that men don’t date homely women, or far women.
What we complain about is the social pressures for women to all be lovely, and svelte. Shows like Family Guy, where the fat guy has a lovely wife, but the normal daughter doesn’t have much romance (paralleled to the older show, “Wait ’til your father gets home”). Or, The King of Queens
There are damned few shows like Roseanne, where it’s just normal looking people.
What feminism is arguing for, and you are refusing to admit (or failing to understand) is that people are people, and society needs to take them as they are. People can have preferences, but they shouldn’t make distinctions which discriminate against a class; in public life.
So when someone gets fired for being fat, or short, nor not good looking enough, or too thin, feminism is against it.
The MRM is all boner hurt they can’t get dates with hot chicks.
There is a difference.
http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21576061-womens-expectations-opposite-sex-are-least-unrealistic
@Pecunium:
“yep. And then you went on to say that Feminism was too, so what’s the difference, and we said it was because the ways in which feminism deals with that,and the ways the MRM deals with it, are different.”
O: I don’t see much in the way of evidence that this is indeed the case, given all the lip service (White) Feminists pay to the issue. And that still doesn’t change the fact that both are overwhelmingly White.
Does it?
“And now you are pretending that’s not been the discussion, what with you dismissing Sojourner Truth, and confusing the background radiation level of racism in the US with an antipathy and absolute disdain for WOC.”
O: I beg your pardon? I made the point that the early White Feminists, didn’t have a particularly high view of their fellow Black citizens, female or otherwise, and said as much; I specifically mentioned Stanton in this regard. I also mentioned the recent film “The Help” and Black Womens’ overall response to same, which was NOT favorable to say the least.
“As I said, you’re an idiot. You can’t manage to keep track of what you said, don’t read what we say and seem to think we can’t go back a page or two to see what was said when you lie about it.”
O: And you’re an oak.
O.
O: I have; should the Tuskeegee Airmen NOT have served this country, then? Because that is the argument you’re making. Think about it…
Yes, because they would have faced much less racism had the Nazis been allowed to win. Holy fuck you’re stupid.
(Actually there may be an argument to be made that, outside of the rather obvious practical implications outlined above, they shouldn’t have served a country that disenfranchised them; certainly people were making this argument with respect to black conscripts in the Vietnam war.)
You then go on to talk about the demographics again, even though it has been pointed out over and over that the attitudes of the individuals involved are far more relevant. If I were you I would stop being so disingenuous, because at the moment you are just making yourself look like you are literally too stupid to even grasp the distinction.
Of course the difference between the Tuskegee Airmen and O, here, is that the Tuskegee Airmen were part of a much larger movement within the United States that was organizing to make the country less racist. No such comparable movement exists in the manosphere, because (a) most folks of color are focusing on more important things, and (b) racism in pretty inextricably entwined with a big chunk of the manosphere.
Survey bets: My best guess is that the readership here is pretty white, but also less privileged on other axes. We’ll see. And of course, as has been said repeatedly here, what was particularly interesting about the r/mr survey was that it showed they were on the whole whiter than the rest of Reddit.
I hear the orange Vitamin Water is like crack. Anyone got any other recommendations? Personally I get the $0.99 (not 50 cent) bubbly lime flavored water at the supermarket, but I’m open to throwing a little money at the PATRIARCHY. 😀
@hellkell
I prefer Bog 😛
@Dvärghundspossen
The real question is, would you date yourself? If you don’t. then the world is basically one big lie, apparently
“I also mentioned the recent film “The Help” and Black Womens’ overall response to same, which was NOT favorable to say the least.”
Nawh, you think? It also got lambasted at Feministe for *drum roll* being a racist pile of shit
Here — http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/08/15/on-the-help/
And here — http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/08/24/not-liking-the-help-that-much/
@Pecunium:
“Show me the feminist complaining that men don’t date homely women, or far women.”
O: Jezebel.
“What we complain about is the social pressures for women to all be lovely, and svelte. Shows like Family Guy, where the fat guy has a lovely wife, but the normal daughter doesn’t have much romance (paralleled to the older show, “Wait ’til your father gets home”). Or, The King of Queens”
O: OK…so, what’s stopping Feminists from making shows that address this? Ever heard of the Boondocks?
“There are damned few shows like Roseanne, where it’s just normal looking people.”
O: See above…
“What feminism is arguing for, and you are refusing to admit (or failing to understand) is that people are people, and society needs to take them as they are.”
O: Why?
“People can have preferences, but they shouldn’t make distinctions which discriminate against a class; in public life.”
O: Relationships aren’t public, at least in part?
“So when someone gets fired for being fat, or short, nor not good looking enough, or too thin, feminism is against it.”
O: Feminism is against the NBA?
“The MRM is all boner hurt they can’t get dates with hot chicks.”
O: Where? How so?
“There is a difference.”
O: Assertion does not a cogent argument make, I’m afraid…
O.
cloudiah — XXX is also like yummy delicious crack (or cocaine anyways…though I like XXX better…)