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Mighty White of You

mrdatarace

So here’s an interesting chart. Guess what it represents?

A) The membership of the David Duke Fan Club

B) The racial breakdown of the most successful Liberace impersonators

C) The demographics of the Men’s Rights subreddit

Well, ok, that was too easy. It is of course all of the above. I’m guessing. It’s definitely C, at least, as this chart was prepared to show the results of the 2013 Men’s Rights subreddit demographic survey.

Now, you might say, well, isn’t Reddit itself a pretty white place? And you would be right. But the Men’s Rights subreddit seems to be a bit whiter — and a lot less black — than Reddit as a whole, if Quantcast’s estimates of Reddit’s overall ethnic breakdown are accurate.

redditoverallrace

In other completely non-surprising news, 89% of Men’s Rights Redditors are men. And a lot of them are libertarians. MRAs complain endlessly that we pigeonhole them as a bunch of entitled white dudes. They’re really not doing much to challenge that assumption.

The most important issue to these fellas (and the small minority that aren’t fellas)? Survey says: False rape accusations.

Other critical issues to the Men’s Rightsers include “custody rights” (which is a bit odd because 92% of those surveyed have no kids), “legal discrimination” (whatever that means), “education discrimination” (this is a thing?), and “male disposability.”

“Male birth control” and “paper abortion,” while relatively less important to the Men’s Rightsers, each got hundreds of votes.

I’m surprised “friendzoning” isn’t at the top of the list, but unfortunately it wasn’t one of the choices. I blame misandry.

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Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
11 years ago

And lastly, I like how you keep referencing my “dear old dad.” It’s cute. It makes me want to pat you on your head.

Obsidian Files
11 years ago

@Argenti:
“No fucking shit Sherlock?”

O: Thank you! Please keep us posted as to the results of that Manboobz survey, OK?

“Hey, somebody prove to me that feminists don’t hate VitaminWater. Now now, y’all’s preferences are just ancedotes, I’m gonna need a database of feminists’ favorite flavors!”

O: Excellent idea! Given that 50 Cent owns Vitamin Water, it would be interesting to see if indeed, Feminists drank it, thereby supporting Patriarchal/misogynist business enterprises and thereby contributing to the perpetuation of such entities and consuming their products. You know what, Argenti, you’re right – this survey thing is a science, indeed! You’re a genius!

O.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“Tulgey – don’t forget the video evidence that they’ve fucked said short men, because otherwise they were just stealing, since paying for a meal totally equals letting someone into your body, and if the women paid for the meal, well, they were just leading the man on anyway.”

O: Not a bad idea…

This is a joke right? You don’t actually want video evidence?

@Tulgey:
“True equality is a man sitting in a quiet room with a notepad, patiently demanding that feminists tabulate, photograph, and provide receipts for every date they’ve been on to prove that they’ve paid 100% for short dudes often enough for him to be satisfied.”

O: Great idea! You Manboobers are geniuses!

Again, you aren’t serious are you?

Two incredibly simple, yes/no, questions:
1) do you want video proof of feminists fucking short men?
2) do you want photographic proof feminists have paid 100% for dates with short dudes?

Obsidian Files
11 years ago

@Nobinayamu:
“No, that is what you said.”

O: Wait, I thought you said you were headed off to work? I don’t want to be the reason you’re being tardy in to work and all that, LOL.

“You said that women don’t date short men.”

O: As I recall, I said that Women *prefer* taller Men…

“They do. Women date short men. The burden of proof is on you. You asserted that women don’t date short men and that feminism, if genuinely interested in equality, would encourage more women to date short men. And women do date short men, so that isn’t anything that feminism needs to address.”

O: Not true; Men date fat Women, and this doesn’t stop Feminists from addressing that, right? Men date homely Women, and this doesn’t stop Feminists from addressing that – right?

“I appreciate that you aren’t… overly bright, but stay with me.”

O: Ooooh…somone, quite possibly non-Black, openly questioning the intelligence of a Black Man? Hmm, where have I heard *that one* before…I wonder…

“Of course there isn’t a database that cross references women (feminist or otherwise) with the heights of the men that they do or have dated. The evidence is out in the world. Go. Outside. There are women on dates with short men.”

O: Indeed; but that doesn’t answer the question: do Feminists date shorter Men than Women in the general population? Or is it the same? Or less so? Or what? I think that’s a wonderful research project!

““The norm” is not an applicable statement. Women date short men.”

O: Sure, it is; per online dating survey data and the like, Women as a rule and in general clearly have a preferred male height. That Women date short(er) Men, is irrelevant.

“If you have a study that shows that some/many/most women prefer tall men it won’t change the fact that women date short men.”

O: Yes, it does, because it speaks to their preferences…which then raises the question as to whether these preferences are hardwired, or are social constructs.

“You are not “short men”. You are one “short man”. I don’t think the height is your problem.”

O: Do you know how tall (or short) I actually am? And what, pray tell, would be my “problem”?

Do tell?

“And lastly, I like how you keep referencing my “dear old dad.” It’s cute. It makes me want to pat you on your head.”

O: Awww, thanks!

And don’t be late for work!

O.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
11 years ago

As further evidence that women and feminists are in general committed to the toppling of the Great Wall of Heightism Misandry Against Short Men (A Wall Which is exactly Five Feet and Nine Inches Tall), here are some fake quotes from famous feminists to compliment the usual round of fake quotes from famous feminists that are so important to MRAs:

“About every six weeks or so, I make a point to ask myself: ‘have I been fucking enough short dudes under 5’5″ lately?'” — Andrea Dworkin

“It’s true. I date lots and lots of short men. I also pay for 100% of all my dates. Why? Because I feel that, well, if I really want equality, I should be deliberately paying romantic attention to the men who are truly oppressed in our society, namely those men whose height tragically falls under 5’5″” — bell hooks

“Kill all men. Except short men. If they’re short, have sex with them, and be sure to be extra submissive in bed so they know that you’re really trying to make up for the endless history of misandry against height challenged men.” — Valeria Solanas, SCUM Manifesto, p. 1006

“I say it to thee again, and doubt never the contrary, that if it were the custom to put the little maidens to the school, and they were made to learn the sciences as they do to the men-children, that they should learn as perfectly, and they should be, and when they became so enlightened by education, they wouldst know not to be such awful hypergamous hussies, and verily wouldst know to go for the truly lowest of the low in the realm of Man, namely, the shorter than average men.” — Christine de Pizan

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

And I can google, looks like 50 cent had minority shares a few years ago in exchange for being a spokesperson. Nothing like ownership.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
11 years ago

O: Nice job avoiding saying anything substantive regarding your blatant misogyny! Keep it up, maybe we won’t notice.

T.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Wait, so now it’s inherently racism to call somebody stupid if they aren’t white? Cuz dude, you’re being incredibly fucking stupid. Like, dense enough to have never heard of Lawrence v. Texas and then drop it completely when I cited it.

I’m going to have to remember to say that I’ve heard that one before the next time somebody calls me any standard insult, particularly ones justified by observation. That oh, you’re calling a genderqueer people stupid? Of course you are, where have I heard that before?

(Inb4 how black men have it worse and we play Oppression Olympics)

Sometimes you’re just being called stupid! And did you miss where somebody called you “boy” and got told to can that cuz it’s racist?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

A genderqueer people stupid. Ok, it’s clearly justified currently. Sleep, I may need some.

pecunium
11 years ago

Went out last night… had a good time (met someone I’ve only known online… for something like 6 years). But later in the evening had a conservative of some stripe; not only was he arguing New York City’s “Stop and Frisk” is just fine (it’s just like telling a cop your name), but he was arguing that rape ain’t rape.

See, “having sex when you don’t want it” isn’t the same as “being raped”. He sort of changed the subject when told that men surveyed about raping people ‘fessed up if you left the word rape out (but not when the women told him, only when I interjected).

He was also pulling some bullshit Catch-22 where he demanded that we accept his views as completely valid; or there was no point in talking (this is pretty much where I stopped talking to him. The logic was precious. It went like this: If you are going to argue there is anything about which personal experience is relevant, then there is no means to come to any common ground, so we can’t talk about anything. He used this as a rhetorical club, to exclude any sort of personal experience as evidence; and then reduced things to, “well that’s just one person,” when being given examples of injustice). I think the part which was worst was his use (more than once) of, “It might be unfair, but…” as he engaged in special pleading for some discriminatory policy.

Ok, I think I’m done venting.

TheFlump
TheFlump
11 years ago

wow precum you just make friends everywhere you go don’t you.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

You had a case of Spot! That! Fallacy! in person? You know I admire your self-control right?nif I’d made it that far into the conversation in the first place I’d have been screaming by that point.

“See, “having sex when you don’t want it” isn’t the same as “being raped”.”

In much of society’s view? No, no it isn’t. Which is, of course, why so may people who were date raped, or otherwise not “forcibly raped” have trouble with the…um…I’m not medicated enough to finish this thought. You get the picture.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Precum usually comes after the making friends part. Just saying.

TheFlump
TheFlump
11 years ago

precum before making friends is rape

Obsidian Files
11 years ago

@Tulgey:
“Try telling the Black Women at Very Smart Brothas—a website explicitly centered around the thoughts of men, I’ll note— that you “don’t support rape for a very simple reason – because it’s not necessary. A Man with Game doesn’t need to rape anyone.” and see what they say!”

O: Actually, I’m a very well known regular at VSB, and the Sistas there know my position on these matters well.

“Better yet, go ask the Crunk Feminist collective if it’s misogynistic to say you “don’t support rape for a very simple reason – because it’s not necessary. A Man with Game doesn’t need to rape anyone.” and see if they think it’s misogynistic.”

O: I think it’s fair to say that the CFC thinks the proverbial ham sandwich is a misognynist, LOL.

“And get real, not every woman is right about what constitutes misogyny or not. If I recall correctly, r/mensrights has about 11% women users, a group that presumably would agree that r/mr is not a wretched hive of misogyny, despite the fact that it obviously is.”

O: OK, wait – those Women can’t decide for themselves, what constitutes misogynistic thought, belief and actions? That they need *other* Women, who *know better*, exactly what these things are, to *educate* them? Kipling would have a field day with that one!

“When did I say you were an advocate of rape?”

O: When you said that I “implied it” when I made the remark you speak of below…

“You clearly established that you don’t support it because you don’t find it necessary.”

O: Correct. So what’s the problem?

“You already did this yourself, merely an hour an a half after you first demanded “extraordinary evidence,” when you said that you don’t support rape because you don’t find it necessary, a statement which directly implies that there are conditions under which you could conceivably find it necessary.”

O: See what I’m talking about here? Look Tulgey, let me ask you a simple question: what, to your mind, does a Man say or do, that means he is NOT in any way, advocating rape? I really want to know because I want to address this issue with you or anyone else here that may be concerned.

“Not to mention that we already all know you’re a proponent of Game, which is a field of bullshit and pseudo-science dedicated to objectifying women as rule-bound objects for the sole purpose of helping men fuck them.”

O: I am indeed advocate of Game because it is a mating strategy for Men. It is rooted in the insights and empirical findings of Evolutionary Psychology. My personal sources in that regard include Prof. David Buss, author of The Evolution of Desire and Evolutionary Psychology: The New Science of the Mind. Mystery’s book, The Mystery Method, has as its subtitle, “How To Get BEAUTIFUL Women Into Bed”. In Neil “Style” Strauss’ memoir, The Game, Mystery says the following:

“Well, look at you”, Mystery said. “You look average. People think if they look generic, then they can seduce a wide array of women. Not true. You have to specialize. If you look average, you’re going to get average girls. Your khaki pants are for the office. They’re not for the clubs. And your sweater-burn it. You need to be bigger than life. I’m talking over the top. If you want to get the 10s, you need to learn peacock theory.”
-Mystery, “The Game”, pp. 22

Now – say what you will about the idea of ranking or scales and so forth, but one thing is for certain – Mystery, clearly, is NOT saying that “all Women are the same”; he is clearly talking about a particular subset of Women, AND, he is talking about meeting them in a particular context and set of circumstances (the niteclub setting). Again, feel free to criticize away, but let’s at least acknowledge what’s actually being said here.

While I’m on this point, please allow me to explain, in greater detail, my take on Game and why:

A Catechism of Game
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/105385

“You are not only a misogynist, you’re such a garden variety misogynist that it’s not even interesting to talk about except to throw it in your face!”

O: But this runs directly counter to a pointed question I put to dozens, if not hundreds of (Black) Women, right at VSB recently: “Is Obsidian, A Misogynist?” – and the consensus was, that I was NOT.

So, again…who’s right here – them

or You?

And why?

Your response?

O.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Today in unsurprising things, Flump is unfamiliar with mastrubatation and one night stands.

And Obsidian is ignoring the painfully simple questions:

1) do you want video proof of feminists fucking short men?
2) do you want photographic proof feminists have paid 100% for dates with short dudes?

Dude, I’ve spent weeks with the likes of you, you’ll tire out before I do. So just answer the damned questions.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

O:you giant jackass, you really can’t read. Nobinayamu is a Black woman calling your ass dumb. Jesus fuck you’re a toad.

pillowinhell
11 years ago

Oh my god, this has been one loooong thread to get through.

Obsidian, got any tips on how women who are only five feet tall can date men shorter than them? Cause I’ve tried, and lemme tell ya, most guys seem to have a preference for dating women shorter rather than taller than them. And what height is the maximum for a man to be considered short?

From studies I’ve seen on heights and preferences in partners, its not an actual specific height that people chose, its a height difference relative to themselves, and both genders play into it without realizing they are doing so. Which means that short men are indeed dating and getting laid, because there are plenty of women shorter than themselves to potentially attract.

Dvärghundspossen
11 years ago

I dated a man shorter than me between ages nineteen and twenty. He was a complete asshole. Then I broke up. I’m now married to a dude who’s 1,87 m and my soulmate. Maybe that proves Obsidian’s point!? Whatever that is!?

Seriously, I’m amazed at how some of you never give up on the trolls. I can’t be bothered. I basically just speak to the regulars here about stuff like feminism, pets, philosophy, mental illness and Star Trek.

Red Scorpion
Red Scorpion
11 years ago

The MRM’s whiteness or lack thereof is irrelevant to the validity of its issues.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

pilllowinhell — yeah, barefoot I’m 5’4″ (hello why I wear 4″ gothy boots) — most of my ex’s where either the same height, give or take an inch or two, or annoyingly tall (and that was one, who I’d met in grade school and started dating at like 17, not my fucking fault I didn’t grow taller!)

What’s the misandry score for two genderqueers of approximately the same height? Granted, we never dated *wink wink nudge nudge* >.<

pecunium
11 years ago

Argenti: Either someone explain to me the relevance of the races of the people David talks to the most on twitter,

Well… all Dave does is feminism related, so clearly anyone who talks to him is feminist, and this proves there are no WOC in Feminism.

It’s simple.

pecunium
11 years ago

Dave: Yes, racism is an issue amongst white feminism. But holy fuck is it a bigger problem in the manosphere. When white feminists do and say racist things, they tend to get called out for it, and they generally regard it as a problem that they need to work on, a defect in themselves.

Happened on this blog, yesterday, in response to a poor word choice by someone responding to this idiot.

pecunium
11 years ago

Sweet mother of the Suffeing Jesus, look at those Goalposts Move.

“Certainly your suggestion that Feministing was a “white” blog doesn’t give me much hope that you really know much about the sites you’re offerring your opinions about.”

O: But by your own admission, Feministe and Jezebel have White writers

Went from, “Are majority white blogs” to, “have white writers”.

pecunium
11 years ago

And the Files are lying again: Fibanachi reviewed about a half dozen of my posts and by his own admission, COULDN’T find anything “rapey” about them.

What Fibinachi said was there wasn’t an out and out call to rape. Rapey is exactly what the conclusion was.

Just to remind you, since you seem to be in denial, this is the conclusion Fibinachi came to:

You support rape. Oh, shit, didn’t I just say you don’t? Sorry, I was using sith game, and I lied.

T: You’re a sick fuck.

O: How would you know?

The publicly available evidence.

E.g. I don’t support rape for a very simple reason – because it’s not necessary. A Man with Game doesn’t need to rape anyone.

You don’t support rape because there is Game: which you describe (in all it’s aspects, even, “Jedi”) as being a way to manipulate women and overpower their desire to not have sex with you. You dress it up with economia to, Walking Away, but that’s persiflage, because the rest is all about how

this style is Direct Game on steriods, utilizing an ultra strong frame and presence, making strong approaches (like the Apocalypse Opener), and taking any defences (like the “Bitch Shield”) the Target will put up and turning back on her squared. Negs have a bit harder edge with this style of Game, designed to slightly (or even strongly) piss the Target off, then turning her aroused state into pure sexual energy and desire. Such a style is perfect for barrelling through a Target’s “Bitch Shield”, via use of sheer persistence, determination and will. Plus the more raw or naked displays of power and dominance

So you don’t support, “Rape”&sup1; but you’re cool with all sorts of lesser assaults on someone’s sense of self, mental state, self-esteem, etc.

That’s evil.

Not necessarily; what I am arguing is that people, in this case, Men, have the right to expect the media to respect their privacy, regardless as to their (past) criminal background.

Which is why you take everything a feminist says as if it was the first thing you ever heard them say. Never look at their past writings, speeches, etc..

No, of course not.

Hello Ms. Marci. I think you’re a bit late to the discussion. I would kindly ask that you consider reviewing the previous 10 pages of this thread, where I have addressed many of the same questions you are asking, right now.

Bullshit. You’ve tossed of deflective one liners like this one. That’s not evidence (well, it is, but not the sort you think. It’s evidence of a defective mental model of how to persuade people to your cause).

Indeed! Tulegy, consider this: one of your fellow Manboobers in good standing, Finanachi, has actually reviewed at least some of my writings; he has come to the conclusion, that there is scant evidence of my advocating for rape at all.

Repeating this lie doesn’t make it true.

&sup1;I don’t suppose you’d be willing to give us your personal definition of rape, so we are all on the same page when you tell us what you are denying you support.

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