So here’s an interesting chart. Guess what it represents?
A) The membership of the David Duke Fan Club
B) The racial breakdown of the most successful Liberace impersonators
C) The demographics of the Men’s Rights subreddit
Well, ok, that was too easy. It is of course all of the above. I’m guessing. It’s definitely C, at least, as this chart was prepared to show the results of the 2013 Men’s Rights subreddit demographic survey.
Now, you might say, well, isn’t Reddit itself a pretty white place? And you would be right. But the Men’s Rights subreddit seems to be a bit whiter — and a lot less black — than Reddit as a whole, if Quantcast’s estimates of Reddit’s overall ethnic breakdown are accurate.
In other completely non-surprising news, 89% of Men’s Rights Redditors are men. And a lot of them are libertarians. MRAs complain endlessly that we pigeonhole them as a bunch of entitled white dudes. They’re really not doing much to challenge that assumption.
The most important issue to these fellas (and the small minority that aren’t fellas)? Survey says: False rape accusations.
Other critical issues to the Men’s Rightsers include “custody rights” (which is a bit odd because 92% of those surveyed have no kids), “legal discrimination” (whatever that means), “education discrimination” (this is a thing?), and “male disposability.”
“Male birth control” and “paper abortion,” while relatively less important to the Men’s Rightsers, each got hundreds of votes.
I’m surprised “friendzoning” isn’t at the top of the list, but unfortunately it wasn’t one of the choices. I blame misandry.
Or Obtuse. Obstinate. Obvious.
Oblivious, obdurate…
@Hellkell:
“No one here denied that, shithead.”
O: LOL! Of course they/you have.
“But you seem to think that two white things are the same.”
O: That’s because…they are.
“The MRM and Feminism are nowhere near each other in terms of how they deal with race.”
O: That’s not what the Sistahood says…by voting with their feet from virtually all White Feminist spaces…
“Ah, more “NO U.””
O: If the shoe fits…
“What argument? I don’t see any arguments. I see a sub-moronic dipshit showing his ass because he’s not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.”
O: LOL!!! Yes, more, please!!!
“If there’s an argument you’re making, whip it out.”
O: Ms. Hellkell, I thought you were a married Woman?
O.
Two dozen articles on a website known for its extreme misogyny is pretty extraordinary evidence to me. Your silence on the matter of associating yourself with such obvious misogynists is another. Or let’s look at the article you so graciously promoted here:
Power and control as “manfulness”.
Let’s see an example:
I can’t even imagine how insecure you have to be to take such a simple, straightforward rebuff—the response to which shows, by the way, that you’re only interested in one thing and that she’s right to say “fuck off”—and turn it into Power and Manness and Being The Better Human Being. You literally can’t take women rejecting you, and have to make their rejection into something you control. It’s misogyny 101.
You said you had an argument? Where?
@BS:
“Both sexes already do. They have the right to use contraception if they choose to. However, women have the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy because the pregnancy occurs in their body.”
O: Which was never in dispute. Men should have the right to terminate being forced into parenthood against his will.
Simple!
🙂
O.
Still not seeing an argument.
People with uteruses aren’t aborting babies. They get abortions for fetuses that aren’t viable outside the womb. So again this is a false equivalency between abortion, a medical procedure to end pregnancy, and “paper abortion”, a way for non custodial parents, usually dads, to abandon their already born children.
I understand you. I just don’t believe you. I am guessing you are not a parent, correct me if I’m wrong. Because if you were raising children, you would know how much time, money, and energy it takes to raise them. It’s not an issue of being strong and independent here when you’re talking about babies and children who require 24/7 supervision, food, shelter, medical care, and education enrichment. You’re talking about parenthood, single parenthood in particular, as being some kind of cakewalk but it’s not. It’s very rewarding but it’s also exhausting.
I know first hand it’s hard, but I wouldn’t pretend to know how much harder single mothers of any race have it. And if married moms like me sometimes need a hand up, it is certainly understandable that a single mom would, and that doesn’t mean she isn’t strong and independent. In fact, I think people are very strong when they admit they need some help during hard times.
And if the biological father in this scenario wanted to raise the baby on his own, he can do so and then she would be ordered to pay him child support. Fair is fair.
Unless the person with the uterus raped the man to get pregnant, then he did not become a father against his will. He could wear a condom if he’s worried she’s not on the pill. Another option for men and people who produce sperm is to get a vasectomy. My husband got one after we were done having children, and it’s been awesome for us. So even though there isn’t yet a pill for cis men, doesn’t mean they have no options besides abstinence and fatherhood.
@Tulgey:
“Two dozen articles on a website known for its extreme misogyny is pretty extraordinary evidence to me. Your silence on the matter of associating yourself with such obvious misogynists is another. Or let’s look at the article you so graciously promoted here”
O: Please!
“Power and control as “manfulness”.”
O: I don’t recall saying any of that in the above quote…
“Let’s see an example:”
O: OK…
“I can’t even imagine how insecure you have to be to take such a simple, straightforward rebuff—the response to which shows, by the way, that you’re only interested in one thing and that she’s right to say “fuck off”—and turn it into Power and Manness and Being The Better Human Being. You literally can’t take women rejecting you, and have to make their rejection into something you control. It’s misogyny 101.”
O: Where does saying “Pleasure meeting you”=Misogyny? In what book is this written? Please link in up?
Of course, a Woman being mean or foul or cursing you out, even when you as the guy have done nothing wrong, AND, you politely exiting the scene, makes YOU, the guy, a Misogynist(!)
Whew…! Orwell woulda LOVED this…
O.
Sure, I’ll play.
Kittens, Cats and Other Fuzzies, I present thee a quote from the Obsidian Files (Nice name by the way, I quite like it). Because of the way WordPress organizes link, you’re going to have to search for the blog posts themselves (Googling the name works), because else I’ll hit the link limit and this post will not go through.
Anyway.
From “A Birthday Gift For Lady Dimaati”
So you’re fine with lying to people (deception) and you’re fine with overstating your cause (theatrics).
Okay, fine, that isn’t rape.
From “Knowing When To Eject: The Most Powerful Move In The Game”
So you’re fine with giggling at people and calling them “Low class” and mentioning how uncouth they are as an insult. Again, not rape.
Same article.
Exactly!
Ah, yes. They’re rude, your mess their entire mental up. They tell you that you work for the UPS, you slam them back down with some Aki-Jiu-Jitsu conversational move to establish frame control because, fuck those bitches, am i right? They don’t even deserve self esteem if they’re rude!
But you’re right, not rape.
From Black Women Who Ask “Where Are All The Good Single Black Men?” Should Take A Good Long Hard Look In The Mirror First
Ah, right. You’re not for rape, you’re just opposed to women having any kind of job, education, housing, plans, future, idea, personality, identity or personal thought beyond how pleasing they are to your sense of desire.
Still, I guess not rape, although it is terrible.
From: “Shii-Cho Game” & Killing The “Brainy Guys Don’t Get Laid” Fallacy
You do advocate Direct Game, which is that particular substain of this viral infection we refer to as Pick Up Artistry wherein you’d tell someone you wanted to fuck them, you’d go “caveman” or you’d grab their hands and put them on your dick.
Rape by assocation! We’re getting closer here.
Although, to be fair, this is not a bad an article and you mention some good points.
Of course you also state you using canned material to make people give you their pussy is fine (
) so really, it kind of sort of evens out to a net minor negative.
From: “Styles Makes Fights — And Game (Peter Parker Remix)” (Old, but it was under your greatest hits bit)
As a creature that knows who Kyle Katarn is, I obviously appreciate the idea of comparing things in a metaphorical way to cutting living creatures apart with a weapon based on light.
As a creature that knows what “Boundaries” are, I dislike the idea of bowling someone over and blitzing them and taking full advantage of the situation.
But you’re right, that isn’t, again, really advocating rape. It’s just fucking skeevy and getting close to it.
Well. All right. I can see how I might misunderstand stuff, when you tell me that one of the options I have when engaging women is to make a strong approach, so strong that I start having a hard edge that pisses them off, you want me to barrel through bitch shields and mistake anger for arousal.
And also, yes. Most women are obviously submissive to the core and will fall for your mighty lightsabre (IS THAT A METAPHOR, FIBI?) if you press the attack hard enough.
Sure, fuck it. This isn’t advocating rape, this is merely hinting at it strongly. Tell me, how does a practicioner of this style deal with an anti slut impulse? Does he just blast through that as well?
Think carefully now.
Anyway.
… Just so we’re clear, the Darkside here would be the lightning strikes and hate and passion, but it would also be a metaphor for rape. Star Wars is fun like that.
…. Well okay. Go on. I can see how this is in no way at all what so ever possibly advocating any kind of deception and rape-tasting personal interaction with a woman.
… yes, indeed, when you blitz someone with a series of rapid fire enchanced brainwashing, gaslightning and psychological manipulation it’ll certainly take a bit of a toll on their personalities across time. Glad you mentioned that. Man, I wanna learn game now and be a cool person SO I CAN BREAK THE BRAINS OF THOSE AROUND ME.
This is followed by a good paragraph (Dun Moch is mentioned, so it’s a good paragraph) describing a few dangers of TREATING PEOPLE AS CAUSAL VESSELS FOR YOUR OWN AMUSEMENT, but I can’t help but notice that even while providing links to roissy and hookingupsmart,telling people how to accomplish this and offering exact, good examples, you don’t take the time to mention how it’s bad.
Well, I mean, you do mention how it can make the “Gamesman” feel worse, obviously. Shit, I’d hate it if I used some kind of dark side force thing and started getting all Elephant Man in my face (as witnessed by the Emperor in the now famous scene in Episode 3).
rape rape rape oh my god so much rape are you fucking kidding me come on take the minute to actually say that you SHOULD NOT BE DOING THESE THINGS TO OTHER PEOPLE AARGH MY HEAD IS FULL OF PAIN.
Anyway.
No, you don’t directly support rape. How nice for you.
You don’t directly advocate anyone doing anything illegal.
How nice for you.
You don’t need my approval (who does? No one!), and you hardly need my opinion:
But seriously, man.
You support rape. Oh, shit, didn’t I just say you don’t? Sorry, I was using sith game, and I lied. You’d prefer if it didn’t happen.
You’d like it if people didn’t do.
But your ultimately standpoint is this:
Here. I’ll be funny.
“What does that mean?”
“It means your morals are fucked up. You don’t want to hurt a fly, but you don’t mind calling the exterminator to kill all the bugs in your house”
You’ll recognize the quote, I guess.
Your direct advocacy of rape is that you don’t mind other people doing it, you just won’t do it yourself. You don’t mind gaslightning people, destroying their sense of self, using psychological tricks on them, messing with their head, doing little flips that “Make them go mental” when they get “Out of pocket”. You’ll take their techniques, you’ll take their field reports, you’ll take their guidance and stop just short of the actual act because, hey, that’d be going too far…
How nice.
For you.
It ain’t illegal. We’ve got free speech :]
Your claim to a grand sense of understanding, scholarship and intelligence is broken and battered by every little random misery you inflict on yourself and those in your life when you grand stand on and on and on about the proper techniques about bagging a total 7 and how negs must differentiate between a 7 and a 10.
—
Fun game. Would play again.
Just for the record and to follow up on my last comment…
Tulgey didn’t quote me in full context. Here’s the full quote:
“Now, how to Eject, you may ask? It’s very, very easy, and very, very easy to remember. Ready? OK, here it is:
When you encounter a “Get the fuk outta here!” situation, you simply say:
“Pleasure meeting you” – and BOUNCE. Do it with a slight grin, keep your voice calm and level, rockout on the back heel and *execute the Backturn*. In fact, you should practice what I call the “One-Two” Eject Sequence:
Sista: Get the fuk outta here!
YOU: Pleasure meeting you. *Backturn*
Sista: *Walks by you after you approach like you were a Stop sign*
YOU: Pleasure meeting you. *Backturn*
Sista: I have a boyfriend.
YOU: Pleasure meeting you. *Backturn*
Sista: Nigga, please! You work for UPS.
YOU: Pleasure meeting you. *Backturn*
You see where this is going by now, right? EVERYTIME A SISTA GETS OUTTA POCKET AT SOME POINT IN YOUR INTERACTION, YOU ARE TO SAY:
“Pleasure meeting you” – AND THEN – *Backturn*”
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/131321
By all means, make the case as to how “ejecting” is now misogynistic.
I’m gonna love this…
O.
Or there’s your Adria Richards article, in which you make the common move of attributing the overreaction to an appropriate action as the fault of the recipient of the overreaction:
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/03/31/bad-for-business-everyone-has-an-adria-richards-story/
And, in the process, accuse her of “squandering good will towards African Americans.” So African Americans don’t have as much a right to goodwill as white americans?
Ok Ob, refute the article on lead.
Because you’ve not made arguments; you’ve made statements.
Obsidian: “Hi I’m obsidian.”
Woman: “I have a boyfriend.”
Obsidian: “Pleasure meeting you.” *backturn*
YES MY FELLOW GAME BLOGGERS, BACKTURN THOSE HARLOTS! THAT’LL SHOW ‘EM! FOR WOMEN WHO HAVE BOYFRIENDS SHOULD BE MADE TO LOOK LIKE FOOLS AND IMBECILES FOR THE GREAT CRIME OF HAVING A BOYFRIEND. HOW DARE THEY HAVE BOYFRIENDS AND/OR NOT BE INTERESTED IN I, THE GREAT OBSIDIAN FLIES, WHAT DO YOU MEAN I’M MASSIVELY OVERCOMPENSATING WHAT DOES THAT WORD MEAN?
Nice job misreading what I wrote! No wonder people here have been calling you dishonest.
I’m going out, but I’m going to leave you to ponder the white nationalist origins of the manosphere’s incessant concern over hypergamy, that word that’s all over your blog:
http://manboobz.com/2013/05/16/hypergamy-how-the-harebrained-notion-of-white-nationalist-f-roger-devlin-took-the-manosphere-by-storm/#more-8670
Yeeeeeeeeeep, still an absolute dearth of arguments.
I’m going out to Brooklyn to hang with some friends. Have fun while I’m away. It’s not as if I’m going to miss any counterpoint of substance.
What is wrong with this man? Obstusian Flies. What is wrong with him?
Has he made an argument yet? I’ve got another meeting.
That “game” stuff sounds like an awful lot of work just to have sex with someone. Disarming “bitch shields”, backturning, alpha-ing, alfalfa-ing, negging, constantly monitoring his “state”, reading and posting on pickup forums all day, studying evo psych books, doing the hokey-pokey and douching themselves around. Fuck, you’d think these guys were trying to design a nuclear reactor or something, not talk to a woman.
Whatever happened to live your life, go out and meet people you like who like you back and end up dating/hooking up? Why do these guys treat interacting with women like they’re preparing for a high stakes special ops mission?
Funny how manosphere commenters start off like “I’m just here interested in an honest intellectual debate” and the more they talk, the more they reveal themselves to be massive, overcompensating douchebags.
@Fibanachi:
“Sure, I’ll play.”
O: Excellent! Let’s go:
“Kittens, Cats and Other Fuzzies, I present thee a quote from the Obsidian Files (Nice name by the way, I quite like it). Because of the way WordPress organizes link, you’re going to have to search for the blog posts themselves (Googling the name works), because else I’ll hit the link limit and this post will not go through.”
O: Fair enough.
“Anyway.
From “A Birthday Gift For Lady Dimaati”
So you’re fine with lying to people (deception) and you’re fine with overstating your cause (theatrics).”
O: Not at all. Indeed, if anything, my fault is in erring on the side of *too* much honesty…but that doesn’t change the reality of what I’ve said.
“Okay, fine, that isn’t rape.”
O: Indeed.
“From “Knowing When To Eject: The Most Powerful Move In The Game”
So you’re fine with giggling at people and calling them “Low class” and mentioning how uncouth they are as an insult. Again, not rape.”
O: It wasn’t meant as an insult, but merely an observation of what the present day situation in inner city America often looks like. But yes, no rape here, I’m afraid.
“Ah, yes. They’re rude, your mess their entire mental up. They tell you that you work for the UPS, you slam them back down with some Aki-Jiu-Jitsu conversational move to establish frame control because, fuck those bitches, am i right? They don’t even deserve self esteem if they’re rude!”
O: Actually, I don’t even take it that far – as Ms. Hellkell rightly observed, I abhor coarse language and do all I can to refrain from using it. I simply exit, stage left. Which is what the Feminists want more of, when it comes to things like street harassment, right?
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/110742
“But you’re right, not rape.”
O: No, I’m afraid not.
“From Black Women Who Ask “Where Are All The Good Single Black Men?” Should Take A Good Long Hard Look In The Mirror First”
One of my better pieces!
“Ah, right. You’re not for rape, you’re just opposed to women having any kind of job, education, housing, plans, future, idea, personality, identity or personal thought beyond how pleasing they are to your sense of desire.”
O: LOL, that’s ridiculous. Of course, I’m all for any Woman having those things; just making the case that for many Men, those things aren’t what informs their mating decisions, at least not as much as many Women would like to believe it does.
“Still, I guess not rape, although it is terrible.”
O: No, its not. On either count.
“From: “Shii-Cho Game” & Killing The “Brainy Guys Don’t Get Laid” Fallacy”
O: One of my greatest hits! Yes…
“You do advocate Direct Game, which is that particular substain of this viral infection we refer to as Pick Up Artistry wherein you’d tell someone you wanted to fuck them, you’d go “caveman” or you’d grab their hands and put them on your dick.”
O: Nowhere on my blog, of over 300 posts, will you find anything of the sort. Direct Game simply means, making a direct approach to a Woman, whereas Indirect Game means just that, making an indirect approach to a Woman. It has nothing in the least to do with the coarse things you just mentioned above.
“Rape by assocation! We’re getting closer here.”
O: Hardly. I don’t advocate rape in the least.
“Although, to be fair, this is not a bad an article and you mention some good points.”
O: Thank you!
“Of course you also state you using canned material to make people give you their pussy is fine () so really, it kind of sort of evens out to a net minor negative.”
O: Meh. What a person says isn’t as important as how they say it, and body language experts have long known this. Personally I don’t rely on canned stuff, but for the guys still trying to find their sea legs, I don’t have a problem with it.
“From: “Styles Makes Fights — And Game (Peter Parker Remix)” (Old, but it was under your greatest hits bit)”
O: Yes, another major hit…
“As a creature that knows who Kyle Katarn is, I obviously appreciate the idea of comparing things in a metaphorical way to cutting living creatures apart with a weapon based on light.”
O: Thank you! Styles, do make fights, after all…
“As a creature that knows what “Boundaries” are, I dislike the idea of bowling someone over and blitzing them and taking full advantage of the situation.”
O: Of course; and we’re not talking about just crashing into someone’s personal space. We’re talking about building up a rapport, say, over the course of an evening. The style of Game you’re referring to is one that draws in attention from the get go, based on other things I’ve noted about it.
“But you’re right, that isn’t, again, really advocating rape. It’s just fucking skeevy and getting close to it.”
O: How so? No touching without permission is done or advocated. No “caveman” type stuff. No harsh language for that matter. How so? Please explain?
“Well. All right. I can see how I might misunderstand stuff, when you tell me that one of the options I have when engaging women is to make a strong approach, so strong that I start having a hard edge that pisses them off, you want me to barrel through bitch shields and mistake anger for arousal.”
O: This is a style of Game that I don’t personally use myself – not my steez. But I wouldn’t be honest if I didn’t say that it didn’t work for some Men and on some Women.
“And also, yes. Most women are obviously submissive to the core and will fall for your mighty lightsabre (IS THAT A METAPHOR, FIBI?) if you press the attack hard enough.”
O: Actually, the more sharper ladies are the ones best suited for Game ops.
“Sure, fuck it. This isn’t advocating rape, this is merely hinting at it strongly. Tell me, how does a practicioner of this style deal with an anti slut impulse? Does he just blast through that as well?”
O: Usually, the latter. Although again, I don’t personally make use of this particular style myself.
“Think carefully now.”
O: I always do.
“Anyway.
… yes, indeed, when you blitz someone with a series of rapid fire enchanced brainwashing, gaslightning and psychological manipulation it’ll certainly take a bit of a toll on their personalities across time. Glad you mentioned that. Man, I wanna learn game now and be a cool person SO I CAN BREAK THE BRAINS OF THOSE AROUND ME.”
O: LOL.
“This is followed by a good paragraph (Dun Moch is mentioned, so it’s a good paragraph) describing a few dangers of TREATING PEOPLE AS CAUSAL VESSELS FOR YOUR OWN AMUSEMENT, but I can’t help but notice that even while providing links to roissy and hookingupsmart,telling people how to accomplish this and offering exact, good examples, you don’t take the time to mention how it’s bad.”
O: I welcome any suggestions you might have! There is always room for improvement.
“Well, I mean, you do mention how it can make the “Gamesman” feel worse, obviously. Shit, I’d hate it if I used some kind of dark side force thing and started getting all Elephant Man in my face (as witnessed by the Emperor in the now famous scene in Episode 3).”
O: Indeed! This is some real stuff, Man. Guys who learn Game should use it for good.
“rape rape rape oh my god so much rape are you fucking kidding me come on take the minute to actually say that you SHOULD NOT BE DOING THESE THINGS TO OTHER PEOPLE AARGH MY HEAD IS FULL OF PAIN.”
O: LOL, are you alright?
“Anyway.
No, you don’t directly support rape. How nice for you.”
O: Thank you!
“You don’t directly advocate anyone doing anything illegal.
How nice for you.”
O: Thank you!
“You don’t need my approval (who does? No one!), and you hardly need my opinion:
But seriously, man.
You support rape. Oh, shit, didn’t I just say you don’t? Sorry, I was using sith game, and I lied. You’d prefer if it didn’t happen.
You’d like it if people didn’t do.”
O: I don’t support rape for a very simple reason – because it’s not necessary. A Man with Game doesn’t need to rape anyone.
“But your ultimately standpoint is this:
Here. I’ll be funny.
“What does that mean?”
“It means your morals are fucked up. You don’t want to hurt a fly, but you don’t mind calling the exterminator to kill all the bugs in your house”
You’ll recognize the quote, I guess.”
O: I’m afraid I don’t; would you mind explaining it, please?
“Your direct advocacy of rape is that you don’t mind other people doing it, you just won’t do it yourself.”
O: Where have I advocated anyone else raping anyone?
“You don’t mind gaslightning people, destroying their sense of self, using psychological tricks on them, messing with their head, doing little flips that “Make them go mental” when they get “Out of pocket”.”
O: Politely exiting the scene is tantamount to all these things now? Really?
“You’ll take their techniques, you’ll take their field reports, you’ll take their guidance and stop just short of the actual act because, hey, that’d be going too far…”
O: Actually, I don’t advocate for any guy to do these things, for again very simple, pragmatic reasons.
“How nice.
For you.
It ain’t illegal. We’ve got free speech :]”
O: Yes, we do. 🙂
“Your claim to a grand sense of understanding, scholarship and intelligence is broken and battered by every little random misery you inflict on yourself and those in your life when you grand stand on and on and on about the proper techniques about bagging a total 7 and how negs must differentiate between a 7 and a 10.”
O: Actually, my stance is that it is not my place to tell another Man what kind of Woman he should be interested in; that’s his business and something only he and he alone can answer.
—
“Fun game. Would play again.”
O:Where’s the rape?
O.
“Feminism doesn’t need to address whether or not women should date short men because women date short men every fucking day.”
O: No, they don’t.
“So stupid.”
O: Yes…unfortunately you are.
Wow; he’s literally devolved into “Nuh-uh” followed by “I know you are but what am I?” as an argument. One of the most talented writers of the MRM, folks.
@BS:
“That “game” stuff sounds like an awful lot of work just to have sex with someone.”
O: No more or less than for most people, Men especially.
“Disarming “bitch shields”, backturning, alpha-ing, alfalfa-ing, negging, constantly monitoring his “state”, reading and posting on pickup forums all day, studying evo psych books, doing the hokey-pokey and douching themselves around. Fuck, you’d think these guys were trying to design a nuclear reactor or something, not talk to a woman.”
O: LOL. I can certainly see why’d you sa that.
“Whatever happened to live your life, go out and meet people you like who like you back and end up dating/hooking up? Why do these guys treat interacting with women like they’re preparing for a high stakes special ops mission?”
O: Because for the certain kinds of Women one may be interested in – it is…
“Funny how manosphere commenters start off like “I’m just here interested in an honest intellectual debate” and the more they talk, the more they reveal themselves to be massive, overcompensating douchebags.”
O: Really? How so?
O.
@Kiki:
“Wow; he’s literally devolved into “Nuh-uh” followed by “I know you are but what am I?” as an argument. One of the most talented writers of the MRM, folks.”
O: *Takes bow*
O.