So here’s an interesting chart. Guess what it represents?
A) The membership of the David Duke Fan Club
B) The racial breakdown of the most successful Liberace impersonators
C) The demographics of the Men’s Rights subreddit
Well, ok, that was too easy. It is of course all of the above. I’m guessing. It’s definitely C, at least, as this chart was prepared to show the results of the 2013 Men’s Rights subreddit demographic survey.
Now, you might say, well, isn’t Reddit itself a pretty white place? And you would be right. But the Men’s Rights subreddit seems to be a bit whiter — and a lot less black — than Reddit as a whole, if Quantcast’s estimates of Reddit’s overall ethnic breakdown are accurate.
In other completely non-surprising news, 89% of Men’s Rights Redditors are men. And a lot of them are libertarians. MRAs complain endlessly that we pigeonhole them as a bunch of entitled white dudes. They’re really not doing much to challenge that assumption.
The most important issue to these fellas (and the small minority that aren’t fellas)? Survey says: False rape accusations.
Other critical issues to the Men’s Rightsers include “custody rights” (which is a bit odd because 92% of those surveyed have no kids), “legal discrimination” (whatever that means), “education discrimination” (this is a thing?), and “male disposability.”
“Male birth control” and “paper abortion,” while relatively less important to the Men’s Rightsers, each got hundreds of votes.
I’m surprised “friendzoning” isn’t at the top of the list, but unfortunately it wasn’t one of the choices. I blame misandry.
Aw, what a sweet little kitty calling bullshit. That kitty is right.
Obsidian, it’s kind of been said before, but your ‘nuh-uh, you are’ debating style is surely worthy of a place alongside some of the brightest five-year-old minds in history. I look forward to seeing your expert use of the ‘rubber and glue’ defence.
@Pecunium:
“Bullshit. You are the one blaming us for rape manuals.”
O: How so?
“That’s being holier than thou. You even used religious metaphors to make your case (planks, soul searching).”
O: Indeed I did; to reinforce the puffed-up piety that’s often on display here and elsewhere.
“Context. You were telling someone to shut up, because they had planks in their eyes. That means you think the flaws in the MRM are as motes.”
O: No, that means that I think those who are so quick to get on their high horse when it comes to the MRAs. The Feminists are far from angelic either, especially when it comes to matters of Race.
“Then you mention Sacks, who killed services for men, in the name of, “helping them”. You have the death of Earl Silverman; whom the MRM didn’t really care enough about to help when he was alive, but were willing to blame the death of on women.”
O: How has Sacks “killed services for men”? And what does this have to do with Silverman?
“You’ve got a racist running the Spearhead, an overwhelmingly white Movement; which blames blacks for a huge number of the ills it claims are causing a need for, “THE Civil Rights battle of the 21st century”.”
O: This is patently false. On all counts.
“AVfM which thinks that doxxing people so they can be harrassed is fine. Which touts the idea that when a woman offends you, the thing to do is beat her bloody and make her clean it up.”
O: What would be the difference between that and what Feminists did in the Nice Guys of OKCupid fiasco – which Dave himself took part in? Perhaps you missed it: http://goodmenproject.com/sex-relationships/what-if-the-nice-guys-of-ok-cupid-is-harming-innocent-people/
“But Feminism (whth the women of color I, and Nobiniyamu) have mentioned; which admits it’s had problems, but from the beginning has admitted that all women need to be lifted up (Ain’t I a Woman?),”
O: Nope. Stanton and others were looking out for themselves, and actually had less than favorable things to say about Black folks.
“even if they were blind to the differences in lifestyles, between poor and middle class and rich, and non-white (at all levels of class); and is working now (again, see that list of names) to deal with how those different aspects of the problem intersect; that’s what you are working to fix.”
O: Then please pass this on to the Sistahood, because they done left the building a long time back…
“And make no bones about it, by coming here, and preaching to us about how we need to change things (so dudes can get their dicks wet more often), rather than calling out your pals in the MRM on their shit, are saying that the bigger problem is feminism; that the MRM is far less fucked up than it is, and that it’s fucked-uppedness isn’t as bad as feminism.”
O: You don’t know anything about me. You need to do more research.
But yes, when it comes to the current topic, I can, and will, tell you all about yourselves. Again: I don’t deny that the MRA community is both largely White and has a formidable racist problem. But they are not alone – the Feminist community is overwhelmingly White and despite all their lip service to diversity, fighting racism and challenging privilege, they are quite hidebound themselves along these lines, which explains why Sistas have been voting with their feet.
So, as far as I am concerned – and again, I’m Black – when it comes to demographics, there is precious little difference between the Feminists and the Manosphere.
End of.
O.
I see O is ignoring the fact that the Great Migration proved he was wrong that black folks just love flagrant Southern-style racism. [crickets]
Made me LOL.
Men should really start working on men’s problems, just like women did. Might I suggest, though, that you start with something like the problem of male violence? Most victims are other men, after all. I mean, if you want to start with the pressing issue of convincing feminists to date short men that’s your prerogative.
Name one false thing in there.
@Howard:
“You know, that doesn’t work?”
O: Yes, it does…
“I mean, we can actually read what you said, see her reply, and when you say ‘look who’s talking,’ we do. We see it. And we smile and nod along.”
O: That’s good.
“Your pithy reply doesn’t skewer who you think it skewers.”
O: Yes it does…
O.
@Howard:
“Name one false thing in there.”
O: I just did. Price isn’t a racist. He has written in support of Black Men, recently. And I’ve been a contributor there for the past several years. Would Stormfront allow that?
Would many Feminist blogs and sites?
O.
Would you like a poll saying black women who vote self-identify as feminists more than white women?
Here.
So that’s bullshit, then?
What?
No, really, what? You want me to get examples of… Uh… Okay. Sure. I guess.
http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/the-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell
I mean, that one’s just off the top of my head. The interrelation of issues related to national security, queer, hetcis and foreign and domestic policy.
Here.
Page 46 og this OECD report – http://www.oecd.org/social/40881538.pdf
Acceptance of less stringent gender roles and less focused, arbitary set ups for differentiating between people leads to a better world as productivity is maximized.
(Assuming you like productivity maximization, but it’s just one metric)
Seriously, dude. *Come ON*
Also.
Start of.
Compositionally, there is significant difference between the two and let me show you :
http://legacy.library.ucsb.edu/subjects/blackfeminism/introduction.html
Now find me a like ressource for the MRA. And you don’t count, because you’re annoying.
No, I jest. You do count – but find me a like ressource for the MRA that also does not call for women to start dating short men to break down social roles and tell others how to fuck them with less effort.
@Cloudiah:
“I see O is ignoring the fact that the Great Migration proved he was wrong that black folks just love flagrant Southern-style racism. [crickets]”
O: Most Blacks today live in the South, not the North…
“Men should really start working on men’s problems, just like women did. Might I suggest, though, that you start with something like the problem of male violence? Most victims are other men, after all.”
O: Violent crime is at all time lows.
“I mean, if you want to start with the pressing issue of convincing feminists to date short men that’s your prerogative.”
O: They are the ones making the case for challenging gender norms, body image and so forth – right?
O.
Obstusidian:
Got a link?
It’s rare to see someone so demonstrably proud of his lazy thinking and general ignorance.
@Howard:
“Would you like a poll saying black women who vote self-identify as feminists more than white women?”
O: No.
What I would like is demographic data for the major White Feminist blogs and websites. Like the MRA Reddit and GMP has done.
I await such data coming in…
“So that’s bullshit, then?”
No. And you still haven’t answered my question…
O.
THEN GO ASK THOSE SITES INSTEAD OF ASKING US, YOU FUCKING MORON.
This isn’t the Feminist Knowledge Clearing House, it’s a blog mocking misogyny. Fucking-A, dude, wake the fuck up.
Well, that’s what you got.
NOW DEAL WITH IT.
Saying NO doesn’t mean you get to side-step. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
It turns your claims into bullshit.
You know, I kind of want Obstusidian to lay out exactly what issues we are discussing. In specifics. Specifically. With citations.
I mean, I’m not going to hold my breath on it, because I don’t think he’ll be able to. But ya know, just for laughs.
SRS has done a number of breakdowns of their stats. You can search their site for it. It’s only one of the places that’s linked in the sidebar here, but it’s a start.
In the 20th Century, 6 million blacks left the South for other areas of the US. 6 million. Most of the rural black population left. As of 2010, 19.2% of the US black population lives in the South, which means that 80.8% of the US black population lives NOT in the South.
This is not a non sequitur, not a response to anything I said, and is cold comfort to victims of violence (male or female).
They don’t have to be the only ones. I encourage short men to self-organize.
He’s also ignoring my questions about his opinions on safety net programs for single parents and their dependent children. Plus he ignored Amanda Marcotte’s post on her plan for would be deadbeat dads. Note that paper abortion advocates can write long screeds about fairness, choice, blah blah, but they have no direct response when she calls their bluff.
And he still hasn’t explained why it’s bad that some women prefer dating tall men, but it’s okay for him to write long blog posts about US women being too fat to please his boner. This is what he said at his own blog.
(Trigger warning for racism and misogyny)
(also, I added a paragraph break to his wall of text)
And this is the person to tell us that feminists aren’t concerned enough about women who don’t want to date short men. Wasn’t he the one throwing Matthew 7:4 around?
Wow, shit.
Yeah, he’s so concerned with whether feminists are breaking down unhealthy body policing for men.
So, soooo concerned.
@thebionicmommy, But the issue of pleasing male boners is the most important issue of our time! This is why I have started to campaign around the slogan: “What do short men want? The right to date any conventionally attractive women they want! When do they want it? Now! What do women want? Who cares. When do they want it? See previous answer!”
It’s a little wordy, but I think it gets the point across.
Claims to be here to discuss the ways in which Feminism is equally problematic in regards to race and racism as the MRM…
And whines about how feminists don’t date short men.
Like I said before, a clown.
The “sistahood” is doing a pretty good job of speaking for itself especially in regards to feminism. Nice try.
thebionicmommy, he’s also ignoring everything I’ve been writing. I suspect he has no other responses than “No u!” as hellkell pointed out.
PS:
QUOTING WHAT HE SAYS ON HIS BLOG AND COMPARING IT TO WHAT HE SAYS WHILE HERE IS MISAAAAAAAAAAAAANDRY