CORRECTION: New evidence suggests that the screenshot discussed in this post and elsewhere was not a forgery but the result of a glitch. I offer a correction, and an apology, and a discussion of the implications, here.
So the mighty Paul Elam has acknowledged — in the comments section of Girl Writes What’s blog, at least –that there might just be some sort of problem going on with regard to, you know, that whole fake screenshot thing. You know, the blatant fraud that A Voice for Men mangling — sorry, managing — editor Dean Esmay seems to have engaged in to cover up a mistake.
But, Paul being Paul, he somehow manages to turn his sort-of acknowledgement of the problem into an attack on me, bizarrely blaming me (the person who actually pointed out this fraud) for him not knowing about it before today:
As much as I hate to say it, Futrelle does have a valid point. I am looking in to it today, and unlike Futrelle, I will address the results of my inquiry in public no matter where they end up.
I don’t mind looking into problems, even when they are pointed out by such a bald faced liar. I would have actually been aware of this sooner if his blog were worth reading. I had to become aware of it in your comments to even know there was a problem.
Well, Paul, I would have happily brought my findings to the comments section of A Voice for Men, rather than the comments section of Girl Writes What’s blog, but you may recall I am banned there. And I wonder if anyone there would have had the courage to stand up and say that, gosh, this Futrelle guy has a point, given how quickly people are censored there for deviating from your site’s perverse “conventional wisdom.”
And gosh, Paul, how unfair it is to expect the publisher of a site to be aware of what’s, you know, published on it. Concerns about the story were brought up by your own commenters shortly after it first ran. Esmay referred in an article and an editorial note to my alleged “lies” about the story; it didn’t occur to you to even go look at what I had said? And even aside from the phony screenshot, or anything I’ve written, did you really think that Esmay’s bizarre explanations for the original mistake made any kind of sense?
In other words, are you incompetent, or are you lying about being unaware of the problem until now?
In any case, I await the results of your “investigation.” I am especially eager to see how you will manage to spin things so it becomes someone else’s fault. Will it be some evil conspiracy that “set you up?”
And when exactly have I lied, Paul? Could you offer a citation? When I point out the lies on your site, I fucking back up each claim.
[EDIT: Added some stuff in the “gosh, Paul” paragraph and made a few other changes.]
what a real let down, I was really excited for his tripling (quadrupling?) down on the lie, I wanted to see how far his minions would go
hey david I have a suggestion, make a new post called ‘post in the comments all of the specific lies and falsehoods I have spoken against the mrm’ and don’t let regular users come in and post in there, I just want a nice big empty thread
Need new Christmas songs? There,s an XKCD for that!
@sittie kitty
I just have a whole window for manboobz when I have a lot open, and other for other internet things XD
@jakey
“Just remember, there is no grey area! If someone isn’t as sexist as Elam, they must be totally elgatartian!!!!!!!”
…I am not sure there is much I can add to this. Jake, you’re the only one here acting like this is an all or nothing.
@shaenon
And, I am now reading that article, because banging my head against the wall by clicking on things I think will be sexist is a hobby for me for some reason.
…
that was not sarcasm.
Okay, I read it. Lots of bullshit, but
I think the author has confused attractive with annoying? Though that could be said about many things in the article.
Really, this whole article seems to be ‘how to alienate women you meet while holding the confirmation bias that you are funny instead of an asshole’.
I feel like this would be a very good way for a guy to convince me to throw a drink in his face and cuss him out.
No commentary, other than solidifying my view that the whole thing is how to get irritation from women :/
wow sorry for the derail. I’ll post this now before wordpress eats it.
The RSS feed and a good reader! I seriously don’t have time to keep up with everything, but it enables me to see which threads are active and jump on comments that catch my eye.
But instead we’ve legislated the exact opposite!
😀
marie: That article is PUA light. It’s all about seeing how much you can get away with. If she puts up with that, it’s on to more aggressive shit, because he knows he can keep pushing.
@cassandrasays
Hey, everyone has to be 16 sometime 😉 Though first part of sentence I’m all makey-sense of (english language fails me is there a word I need?) Probably second part too, since I’m sure I said some stuff I’d regret when I was 16, but I’d really rather not use the age as snark. Idk if that made any sense? Sorry if I’m being annoying, just rambly today.
@filo4000
If you truly desire an empty thread you can make your own blog…
@pecunium
Definitely 🙁 And more icky than I’d originally assumed it’d be.
…I’ve really got to stop opening links I know will make me angry.
Yeah, I mean, even the truly intrusive stuff like Jehovas Witnesses going door to door, you can always tell them to go away. Stuff that’s essentially background noise…society is full of annoying background noise. The only way to avoid it is to join a commune where only the background noise that you approve of will be around.
And, from experience, even that isn’t going to be enough. Eventually one of the other cult members will want to sing a hymn written after 1923, and then SPLITTERS….
I have a Jehovas Witness who comes to my door every couple months. He’s super nice, and I always have really interesting conversations with him. The last time he was here I told him I didn’t believe in the bible, and he stopped instantly (and stopped his companion) and told me he would come back later once he found compelling evidence that didn’t rely on the bible. I was kind of shocked, he listened to what I said and respected it. Don’t get many people who do that, most just fall back onto “but the bible said this” like his companion did. Honestly, he’s one of the nicest people and I would totally invite him in for tea. He hasn’t been back around but I’m kind of looking forward to it, just to see what he’s come up with and to have another conversation.
I know the conversation’s drifted a lot, but I had to comment on
In other words, are you incompetent, or are you lying about being unaware of the problem until now?
…dang it, it didn’t embed, let me try again.
Or this?
http://media.tumblr.com/9641122627027f86e7428f8b5c0aa598/tumblr_inline_moge45v7l41qz4rgp.gif
A Witness handed me a pamphlet outside the coffee shop the other day and it was hilarious, she was all “just read it when you have time, it doesn’t have to be now”. Lovely woman, even if I do think she’s in a cult.
I have them as clients pretty often, and they’re usually the nicest people to work with. Super cheerful and they rarely prosylatise to me.
@J: I’m not in the LO since they don’t organize university professors, they’re more for low-educated jobs. I’m in TCO, which is one of two unions for academics. Husband is in LO though. They’re divided into various sub-unions, so it’s never the case that the entire LO goes on a strike, but their sub-unions sometimes do.
SAC are basically more radical but also has less of an impact since they’re a much smaller organization.
AND to everyone who cheered for Husband, there will be no strike now!
Here’s a brief and completely impartial summary of what happened:
Employers: You, the workers, should totally be prepared to work super-shitty schedules for shitty pay for the sake of our immense profits! *twirls moustache*
Workers: No we won’t! We’re gonna go on a strike!
Employers: Now you’re being unreasonable! You’re not being cooperative!
Workers: We tell you, we’re gonna go on a strike!
Employers: That’s just mean, threatening us like that!
Workers: Okay, the strike is on! And we’ve saved up enough money for this to have the trains standing still for WEEKS!
Employers: OMG you’re fucking serious! Have it your way then!
Employers to the press: The nasty, nasty workers wanted to cripple the entire city, but we, the kind, kind employers really care about ordinary people and their need of the commuter train system, so completely for the sake of these ordinary people (and not at all because we care about us making money) we let the nasty, nasty workers have it their way.
I know a lot of JWs seem like nice people, but that cult causes them to do some very destructive and harmful things. One of which is shunning family members, even their own children or parents.
Things you can be shunned for: same sex relationships, smoking, premarital sex, celebrating holidays or birthdays, or even voicing your disagreement with Watchtower doctrine. Also, depending on which side of the waffle they’re on, you can be shunned for having been raped because, unless you fight back with every ounce of strength you have, you committed an act of immorality and/or adultery. Isn’t that nice to know if you have a gun to your head or a knife to your throat.
They have written articles about domestic violence that advises women to stay in abusive relationships and examine if they are “truly being submissive to their husbands.”
I was born in and raised in that cult. It ruined my childhood and young adulthood. I’ve made a lot of ex-JW acquaintances and we all share similar experiences. I’ve known people who committed suicide upon being shunned.
I hope I don’t bring anybody down with that. It’s just a hot button with me.
Yeah, I’m not defending those aspects of it. I know many people who have had their lives irrevocably ruined by that. I’m sorry that happened to you theladyzombie 🙁 No one should have to deal with religiousity of that fervor.
Living in the Bay Area I’ve run into a few people who had friends or relatives who were involved in the People’s Temple, and by all accounts a lot of the people caught up in that mess were folks you’d have liked if you met them too – kind, a bit hippy-ish, strongly anti-racist. Which just makes what happened at Jonestown even more sad.
Nice people get caught up in cults all the time, unfortunately.
@Dvärghundspossen: Yay to union power! Fight the Man! Strength through unity! Power to the people! Make love, not war! Wait, I’m reciting slogans again, ain’t I?
Re argument from authority: I hate it that our hierarchy-loving society has two meanings for the term “authority”: 1) expert in a field through practice and/or education, and 2) assigned position of power derived from the state or other institution, or to the cynical, those individuals in positions where they can be complete dicks to other people and get away with it because I said so, dammit! Now go to your room!
People in the first group, when staying within their field of expertise, are just about the only ones qualified for a non-fallacious argument from authority. Everyone else, not so much.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses are interesting. They get massive props from me just for rejecting the doctrine of Hell, right up front. If you are going to say that God is all-good, and then embrace a doctrine that makes him unambiguously more evil than human history’s most vile people, that is a large problem. The JWs believe in oblivion for everyone who doesn’t go to heaven.
They also seem to be a lot more honest and thoughtful than any other group who aggressively proselytizes. An amusing story: I used to invite in the JWs and Mormons to chat and have a beverage. But I would always stipulate that if they wanted to preach to me, I wanted equal time to talk to them about atheism. The JWs would always accept these terms AND honor the agreement. The Mormons would always refuse and leave.
@Dvärghundspossen
Yay your husband and his workmates that they got what they wanted without strike 🙂 (not like I think strike is bad, I’m just glad they didn’t have to do it.) Jerkass employers for the employers to press thing though 🙁
@theladyzombie
Fuck >:( That’s a horrible thing to tell someone.
All the jedi hugs if you want them. That sounds extremely sucky.