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Keep digging: A Voice for Men ready to triple down on dishonesty in order to cover up mistake? [CORRECTED]

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CORRECTION: New evidence suggests that the screenshot discussed in this post and elsewhere was not a forgery but the result of a glitch. I offer a correction, and an apology, and a discussion of the implications, here.

So the other day I showed you all in detail how someone at men’s rights hate site A Voice for Men fabricated evidence — in the form of a faked screenshot — in order to cover up an embarrassing mistake on their part. The person responsible for the fabrication appeared to be AVFM’s so-called “managing editor” Dean Esmay.

Well, now it appears that they’re going to triple down on their dishonesty and concoct more screenshots. In a “news roundup” from Esmay today I found this remarkable passage:

DEAn3

And going back to the story with the error I found a new “editorial note” from Esmay:

dean4

I can’t wait to see what on earth they’ve come up with this time. I encourage readers to take screenshots of all this in case AVFM decides to do any retroactive ninja editing as part of its plan to pretend it was right all along.

Meanwhile,those of you who have been following this story may be wondering: who is this Joshua Thompson? Well, it appears that AVFM — or at least Dean Esmay — can’t even get the name of the post’s author right.  That’s right, AVFM’s MANAGING EDITOR can’t get the name of one of AVFM’S OWN WRITERS RIGHT.

The author was first identified on AVFM as Jason Gregory — and if you look at the bio for Jason Gregory on any of the other articles he’s written for AVFM, like this one, it points to American Idiocracy, the blog where the problematic Facebook post originally ran. (It’s now been replaced, on his blog, anyway, by a completely rewritten version.)

At some point, apparently by accident, AVFM changed the byline of the author to Jason Thompson, who appears to be someone else who wrote something for AVFM a long time ago. And now Dean Esmay is calling him Joshua Thompson.

Or maybe Joshua Thompson is his real name, and Jason Gregory was his pen name, and Esmay has accidentally doxxed his own writer. Who knows?

I suspect we have not yet plumbed the depths of AVFM’s dishonesty –or incompetence.

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cloudiah
8 years ago

Wait. Usually I can understand their logic (or what passes for it) even when it makes no sense, but in this case Esmay’s lost me.

Even under their scenario, how are you the liar?

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
8 years ago

Oh boy! I can’t wait!

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
8 years ago

Anyway, even in a universe where searching for “violence against men” brought up nothing but search results for “violence against women” and there is screenshot evidence of this that hasn’t been photoshopped or otherwise manipulated, that still doesn’t make David a liar.

It is 100% true that they published an article making a claim that was then shown to be wrong, and then they published a faked screenshot trying to back up their claim, and then they said they really meant to make a different claim in the first place.

Reporting on this isn’t lying. If it turns out that they have evidence that their original claim was true but they haven’t bothered to present it yet, then that would make David simply wrong.

But I don’t think they have such evidence, so I doubt David is wrong, either.

cloudiah
8 years ago

It must be something to do with marmosets.

Or maybe marmots.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
8 years ago

And not even wrong about what happened, but wrong about the underlying claim, through no fault if his own, so yeah, whatever, MRAs are stupid.

Andrew Johnston
8 years ago

My guess is that they’re going to try to pretend that the original article referred to “violence against” rather than “violence against men.”

That’s what Gregory’s new article claims – that he was really trying to demonstrate how neglected men’s issues are with a search for “violence against.” But even if you buy that, it still looks like at some point, someone used a falsified screenshot. Best case scenario is that they fucked up and tried to conceal it.

So how did you lie, exactly? Did I miss something between the lines?

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
8 years ago

I took some screenshots. The article still talks about searching for “violence against women” and they’ve still got the SS up where it’s obviously searching for “violence against” with the word “men” tacked on after the search had been performed. 😀

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Well, David has suggested that there’s this thing called “sexism” that somehow works against women, and that men aren’t oppressed. Ergo, everything he says is a lie, right?

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

“When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout”, and if that doesn’t work rinse and repeat.

MaudeLL
8 years ago

Maybe Jason/Joshua/Gregory/Thomson should be correct in the same way on both AVfM and on his blog, it might look more ‘correct’ and less like ‘bullshit.’

The funny thing is that when I googled “violence against men,” 1 result was about violence against women. It was an AVfM link, of course.

(Someone might want to teach them to sign out first too. Their rage googling about women would skew the results just like mine was skewed to look like AVfM was important)

Christo
Christo
8 years ago

I took a screenshot of that paragraph the other day not long after you posted about it. I’ve searched “violence against men” several times in the past and never had a problem finding resources. They are so full of crap. They’re constantly exaggerating and often outright lying to try to create hysteria. They have to, I suppose. They can’t find enough REAL stories to support their opinions.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

@Maude – do you ever look at Feministe? One of the regulars there posted a pic of his kitty in her new collar. She looks a lot like Charlie and Mads. 🙂

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2013/06/14/weekly-open-thread-with-sand-shadow/#comment-651343

Cthulhu's Intern
8 years ago

I should E-mail them and say that I have proof. See if they publish that a reader has proof. Then when I send them my proof, it’s a really crappily done MS Paint job that’s obviously fake.

Christo
Christo
8 years ago

I could fake a screenshot like that in a minute’s time in Paint that would be perfectly convincing. They shouldn’t have a problem creating a fake screenshot. But I’m going to laugh my ass off when I see them actually post it. What a bunch of scummy, sneaky liars. The whole bunch of them from the top on down!

AK
AK
8 years ago

My theory is that they’re so used to making up lies themselves, they have forgotten the difference between just being wrong (something that happens to everyone) and actively lying. I eagerly await their update, and wonder why they need to delay the publishing of this proof in the first place…

seleukosnicator10
8 years ago

Wow! And I thought the Typhonblue thing was bad

guffaw-ferrets
guffaw-ferrets
8 years ago

The more and more I read about these people, and it’s been years now since I started, the more I’m convinced that it’s one massive case of projection.

They are such nasty, dishonest little assholes who dogmatically adhere to such a toxic, skewed worldview that they see the same patterns whenever they look at anyone else. They’re so stunted that they can’t even imagine another way of being. So when we say, no, that’s not the case with everyone, they assume we must be lying because hey: they would be.

Either that or they think everyone who isn’t them is just hopelessly stupid — which is clearly more projection, because we’re not exactly dealing with the major brain trust of our world with these folks.

quantumscale
quantumscale
8 years ago

Not sure what I expected from them, but I was hoping for something more substantial than calling David a liar and not providing evidence. Guess I gave them too much credit.

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

[Look for an updated article on this in the near future. Dave Futrelle’s been caught out as a liar. Again. What a shock! Stay tuned. –DE]

I am staying so very, very tuned. Don’t let me down, Mr. Editorial Update.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Poor little AVfMers, they get such rageboners over being called out and laughed at.

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

Also, I love that it says “we owe Josh an apology” RIGHT ABOVE where it says Written by Jason Thompson.

Are they really going to make us wait this long for the next episode? Who shot JR?

Cthulhu's Intern
8 years ago

It would not surprise me if this is just never brought up again. They just say “David lies, we win!” and just act like this never happened.

Shaenon
8 years ago

Dammit, one of my best friends is named Jason Thompson. I demand reparations on behalf of the Jason Thompson community!

WeeBoy
WeeBoy
8 years ago

The more they cover up the more I am convinced they knew they were wrong on the first place. As a reformed compulsive liar the worst thing ever is to get caught in a lie. Because when you lie you quite literally feel like you are changing the past and you’re making the world different. Someone catches you out and that rips up the illusion you created for yourself and it’s quite painful. So you keep lying because that’s easier than admitting the truth. Also you’re so full of yourself that you think all you need to do is tell one more lie and everyone will believe you again.

melody
melody
8 years ago

I may be taking another extended break from manboobz in the future.
I can’t really deal with the frustration and depression this stuff brings me right now.

And agreed. I don’t understand how Dave is a liar. I’ll wait for the evidence though. I want to see what they come up with. Because I know that google doesn’t hide the results for men support groups. Mostly because when manboobz covered the guy calling a help line claiming to be abused and pretended that they didn’t offer support I googled what kind of support was out there.

@Christo

Can’t someone who knows what to look for prove a screenshot is fake? I doubt that they are super talented in that area. And if they are then I wonder why they would need to be…..

@MaudeLL

Signing out won’t fix it all though. But it would be a good idea because your search results are effected by geography, past search history, google + (what your friends like and whatnot), and past queries.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Hey, WeeBoy, good to see you! As someone who worked closely with a compulsive liar, I recognize those patterns too.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

melody, sorry it’s getting to you – take care of yourself.

melody
melody
8 years ago

Life is getting to me. I try very hard to be civil and polite online. No name calling or anything, but I’m getting a tad tired of defending myself, being told to mellow, told that I’m being too aggressive in my responses, being accused of being an old bitter spinster and the like.

I have enough going on in my personal life that I don’t really want to deal with stuff online right now.

And after a small crises the other day I’ve decided that I may not be up to fighting the good fight online anymore.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Melody, we’ll miss you but you should (obviously) do what you need to do for your health. Take care of yourself, and be well.

Kim
Kim
8 years ago

You’ve made a typo… you spelt Thompson wrong just before you said AVfM couldn’t get his name right. ironic 🙂

WeeBoy
WeeBoy
8 years ago

Hey Cloudiah! I’m finally a bit more settled into my new place and I have a much shinier phone, so I should be round to comment more.

thekidwiththereplaceablehead

Google search personalization can be turned off.
https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/54041?hl=en&ref_topic=14153

This is a Good Idea. (Or use a less big brothery search engine.)

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Do you recommend any search engines, thekidwiththereplaceablehead? I really only know Google and Bing and Yahoo (if they still have a search engine – wouldn’t use ’em anyway). I’d be interested to try others.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

… Never mind, I just saw what your link was about. 🙂

Graham
Graham
8 years ago

Shorter Esmay: “O hai guys, we’re going publish a bunch of fake screenshots soon but we haven’t quite finished checking them for giveaway errors yet, so bear with us.”

thekidwiththereplaceablehead

Kitteh: 🙂

That GWW post is is interesting. Even in text form, she just goes on and on.
Apparently they think that David writes all the comments here in order to look like he has more readers than he really does. He must get sore fingers.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

If only they knew the terrible truth – that David is a bunch of cats in a man-suit!

Easy to type lots of comments when there are so many willing paws.

Warren
Warren
8 years ago

The fact that they are responding with BS to your posts is a clear sign they are both monitoring what you write and care enough about what you are saying to have to invent scenarios to hide their stuff ups.

What baffles me is anyone can do a quick google search on any keywords they like, anytime and see the results; why would anyone be so silly to try and invent search results? As always it’s the cover up not the crime that really damages.

Anyway its feet up and more popcorn to watch the unfolding comedy of MRA “rationalism”.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Anyway its feet up and more popcorn to watch the unfolding comedy of MRA “rationalism”.

If David were able to sell us popcorn delivered via the intertubes, he’d be rolling in money. 😀

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

AVfM could fuck up a one car parade.

j
j
8 years ago

WAR IS PEACE
IGNORANCE IS SLAVERY
WOMEN ARE WHORES

j
j
8 years ago

woops fucked up my biotruths, /freedom / is slavery, ignorance is /strength/, and women are /sluts/

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
8 years ago

That’s right; I’m really David.

AnonymousGuy
AnonymousGuy
8 years ago

These guys don’t recognize that honesty and dishonesty even exist. To them, it’s a game – if you lie in such a way that no one can figure out how to catch you red-handed, that’s no different from telling the truth.

There’s a word for that. It’s called “evil.”

Kittehserf
8 years ago

That’s right; I’m really David.

“I’m David!”

“No, I’m David!”

“I’m David, and so is my wife!”

daintydougal
daintydougal
8 years ago

My guess is that they’re going to try to pretend that the original article referred to “violence against” rather than “violence against men.” And that they’ll edit it accordingly.

That’s what I’ve suspected from the beginning. They just tagged the ‘men’ bit on because they can’t leave well enough alone. It’s like they’re purposely bringing themselves into disrepute.
Lies upon lies upon projection upon more lies. In a pie. Mmmmm.

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