This won’t be news to a lot of you — I’m a little late getting to it — but our old pal Tom Martin, the repulsive British MRA celebrity, is actually going ahead with the somewhat baffling video “women and comedy” project he was babbling about in the comments here many months ago, when he was still allowed to comment here. Well, “actually going ahead with it” this August if he can get anyone else to agree to work for him for free minimum wage.
The documentary project is called “Laughing with Women” and, Martin explains, it will “investigat[e] if gold-digging impairs women’s joke-making ability, and if, when women reject gold-digging in all its forms, they can become instantly funnier.”
In case that didn’t make sense to you — don’t worry, that’s a completely natural reaction — Tom explains his, er, “logic” a bit further in a jobs listing he’s posted in hopes of finding a crew, which has already gotten a good deal of ridicule over at PZ Myers’ and on at least one comedy website.
Why are women, on average, slightly less funny than men? Does gold-digging in particular impede women’s joke-making ability? When women publicly reject gold-digging, do they become as funny, or even funnier than men?
In his numerous visits to Man Boobz, Martin expounded at length on the topic of gold-digging women, generally referring to them by his preferred term, the shorter and blunter “whores.” Martin has previously estimated that roughly 97% of women fit this description, and has suggested that female penguins are also whores. Frankly, once he gets going on the topic, it’s hard to shut him up, which is partly why he’s no longer welcome in the comments here.
In any case, this odd hypothesis will be tested, Martin says, with a “radical, and revealing street-based social experiment.”
Still puzzled? Mike Booth, the British video comedian behind SomeGreyBloke and Dan Cardamon, has managed to tease out a few more details from Martin (posting here as sexismBusters):
Martin is confident that his proposed video will blow the lid off this whole “women and gold-digging and comedy, no really, they’re connected” thing:
If the radical, and revealing street-based social experiment at the centre of our documentary proves gold-digging does make women less funny (as pre-production research suggests) then our findings will make headlines around the world, our film’s two minute teaser trailer attached to all those news and blog articles (Update: this advert alone has already been blogged and tweeted about by outraged PC types).
The full documentary will be shot to a broadcast-quality standard and format, giving mainstream television companies worldwide the opportunity to purchase broadcasting rights (if they’re feeling brave enough) whilst we maintain a virtually guaranteed revenue stream from our already established hardcore of supporters and fans within the non PC gender equality field around the world, who, along with everyone else, will be able to enjoy Laughing with Women on newly launched pay-per-view channel, Vimeo on Demand (VoD) – where VoD itself takes a very modest 10% cut. The documentary has the potential to be translated into several languages – gold-digging a familiar if hidden story in every country, until now.
In other words, it sounds like some sort of video gold mine.
So I’d recommend that all gold-digging women out there try to get in on the ground floor of this Tom Martin dude.
Oh, and speaking of Dan Cardamon, here’s the faux MRA’s take on the project:
CORRECTION: This post originally stated that Martin wouldnt’ be paying his crew, but he says he will be paying them minimum wage, so I’ve corrected the relevant passage above.
EDITED TO ADD: Tom has shown up in the comments, and I’m letting his comments through (for now at least), so if you have any questions for him, feel free to head to the comments to address him directly.
This might have been mentioned here or elsewhere on the blog (I’ve not read much in a while), but this guy wails in YouTube comments about how women control the world via faking orgasms during penetration and making men feel inadequate. About our being inherently incapable of enjoying sex (have you ever *met* a woman?) and thereby…controlling men. It was so funny and SO fitting the stereotype of the sort of aggrieved loser MRAs claim not to be. This guy has no self-awareness whatsoever.
Sorry about your insecurities about your dick, sir. This is something you personally need to work out. It is not a failing of the entire world. And if you’re not sexually satisfying your partners, perhaps it’s because you’re not trying to? Yes, women won’t climax if you don’t attend to what brings them to climax. Duh! This is your failing. Whining about how many women don’t climax from penetrative sex–this is biology, my good man; this is a matter of nerve endings and the physical realities of the species, not a matter of women being incapable of orgasms!–makes you look so pitiful, so insecure, so clueless. Some women faking orgasms? To make their partners feel good during a mode of sex that focuses on the man? In a world where women are taught that they’re *supposed* to climax from something they are physiologically often *not capable* of doing? Do you have how idea how you appear to the outside world, wailing about these insecurities as though they are a worldwide and historical conspiracy? (Hint: “fringe,” “fool,” and yes, “inadequate,” may come up.)
Just in case you think the “physiologically not capable of doing” is evidence of your weird obsession with the inherent “orgasmlessness of women”: we’re not “orgasmless” unless you’re doing it wrong! And often doing it wrong means focusing on what gets you off to the exclusion of what is physiologically, and anatomy 101 (do they not teach anatomy at LSE? You’d think if they were obsessed with women only they would have taught you this) pleasurable to your partner. It’s absolutely amazing that you think whining about what to pretty much everyone else appears to be your own insecurities is some sort of warrior position.
Here is some education: your penis begins as a clitoris. Same organ. The part of the clit that’s visible is the corollary to the tip of the penis; the clit actually extends far inside too and actually looks very much like an internal penis. Because they begin as the same organ. Because you actually began essentially as a female fetus, my dear. The fact that many, many women don’t orgasm from penetrative sex is not because we’re “orgasmless,” I mean what century do you live in, ignorant one? Many women do get great satisfaction from penetration, but for those who don’t, well, not giving her what she wants too, which in healthy hetero relationships means you each focus on what the other wants, is like a woman avoiding your penis entirely and then claiming you don’t like sex. You really should sue LSE for leaving you totally ignorant of this really, really basic stuff.
You also wail about women not communicating–well if they’ve got a guy who doesn’t understand how basic physiology works, is it *her* fault? Those men are living in the wrong century. And if they don’t understand the most basic human anatomy, maybe it *is* their fault for not satisfying their partners? Again, if a woman decided to completely ignore your penis during sex it would pretty much be their fault. And when women fake orgasms it’s related to, get ready for this, being socialized in a male-centered world that tells them they should focus on his pleasure exclusively. It’s the opposite of your ilk’s silly “gynocracy” ideas. It’s because history has been brutally unfair to women and has ignored, for centuries, the basic realties of how the body is made.
By the way, you will enjoy this: women’s orgasms tend to last longer and are more intense. People who’ve transitioned from male to female (hormone balance alone changes sexual response, this isn’t even about surgery) often say their “female” orgasms are waaaay better. The head of the clit has far more nerve endings than the penis. Suck on that. (Or maybe try to next time?)
Also, this guy’s crusade to follow, or pretend to follow, various feminists and social-justice organizations on Twitter and then yelp, “No mention of men’s rights? Unfollowed!”) is also hilarious. Dear sir: women have attained the rights they have by diligent, direct action, often at their own peril. You wail. Except in bed, apparently.
OMG, you guys are hilarious. I just caught up on this thread–had my ablation and tubal yesterday, which went well (TMI, I’m starting to feel like a balloon that’s been set free from all the gas they used)–and holy fuckballs, can’t believe The Man From Taint thinks anyone will take this seriously.
Tom, am I still “too much of a cunt for Manboobz?”
Dvarghundspossen: congrats on the grant!
I’m just going to pause here and admire–that’s the correct word for “staring open mouthed at”, right?–Tom Martin’s stunning racism. With all of his misogyny, you’d think he wouldn’t have time, but somehow he manages to fit it in.
But I’m sure it’s not racism because all East Asian women really are gold-diggers, no?
Racism and misogyny seem to be the chocolate and peanut butter of assholes like Tom. Or is it like Jello–there’s always room for racism with these twits?
Here, enjoy the hilarious foolishness, these are a variety of comments (posted on the Grey Bloke “Manosphere” video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew8KPNeEds8):
brainscans show the vocalizations women make during sex bare no correlation with actual arousal in the brain, so women are actually sending out false messages of arousal, because they’ve resigned themselves to orgasmless intercourse, and just want to give an encouraging commentary, following the script, of fake appreciation to the man, the more screaming and groaning by her speeding the time it takes for him to finish. Science tells us the truth about women’s (real) arousal patterns thanks.
The multitude of different ways women can orgasm is something women have become worse at communicating to their lovers over the years, not better (Wolfe, 2012). Women are horrible sexual communicators on average, leaving their individual arousal requirements a mystery for men to work out rather than give instruction. Feminism has encouraged women to simply blame men, for everything, including women’s orgasmlessness. Men’s pelvic arousal nerve/neural pathways are much more uniform…
A relative lack of orgasm might be partially to blame for women’s relative lack of humour generation tendencies too. Women might have to become more communicative and imaginative lovers in order to get more orgasms, and ingest more sperm, in order to become become funnier comedians. [EDITOR’S NOTE: OH MY GODDD]
Women are lot less productive & creative when not having regular orgasms (& alcohol/drug addicted as they fuck round trying to find elusive one who’ll give orgasms) & it makes lives of their male sexual partners hell too. Science is now learning to bypass what women say they like, which is 75% bullshit, and get to what their vaginas actually like, and this is all new research, and you say “so what” – the Islamic approach, where women’s sexuality is simply written off because it’s too complicated [UM…]
Most women do not orgasm from penetrative sex. 2012 research finds women masturbate more when in relationships with men than not (women have to finish themselves off). So, when you’ve finished blaming me or men for women’s vaginas, what is it you really want to say apart from “Rape!” – Are you denying that society continues to blame men get for women not orgasming, and are you denying that this is hurtful to men, or are you just saying “so what?” Either way, I’m learning nothing here. Dig deep
Men get blame for women’s orgasmlessness so ARE victims, of women’s reluctance to communicate about sex (women are becoming LESS communicative over recent decades (Woolf, N. 2012). Scientists found, in 2010, every noise a woman makes during intercourse is fake – deceit, by women (not ‘society’). Women’s self-reported arousal correlates only 26% with vaginal plethysmograph readings, whilst men’s correlated 72%, so, what is OUR problem? Women’s orgasmlessness w/ men drives women to drink & drugs. [SNIFFLE]
Orgasmlessness is a serious issue effecting a lot of women, and the men who have to suffer the backlash. The more sex a woman has with men, the more she hates men, indicating most sex is bad for women. Society teaches us that bad sex is men’s fault, when in reality men are more likely to initiate and reciprocate and communicate, and orgasm
Anger is a legitimate emotion in the face of injustice. People, media, and women pointing the finger at men for women’s lack of orgasm. Case in point, you’re doing it yourself, speculating I am a bad lover. Imagine next time you orgasm, the man you’re with tuts, then berates you for not being a good lover. At the point of your orgasm, shamed. That is the story for a lot of men, dealing with women who lack the civility or communication ethic or knowledge of their own body to explain. Exhibit C. [HAHA OH MY GOD]
Quite. Quite important to women on our planet apparently, 20% faking orgasms during vaginal intercourse, and from my experience, zero % admitting they don’t orgasm from penetrative sex alone. All female vocalizations found to be uncorrelated with arousal. Society blames men for women’s vaginas.
********
I seriously cannot believe this guy is so hung up on this subject, and about how this drives men to hate themselves and drink. I have never had a problem with this stuff in my life, and guys who don’t understand what women enjoy generally, based on the most basic understanding of human anatomy, are not being *blamed*, but they certainly are the ignorant party in such a problem. Lack of communication? Seriously bro? Stop reading studies in search of some sort of validation for your clear dismissal and hatred. And if feeling inadequate about prowess drives a guy to drink it’s because he has issues *he* needs to work out! This is not blaming; it’s common sense.
The people on that thread who are making him so upset by wondering about his own sex life are pretty much doing what anyone would do when anyone began obsessively busting out this paranoiac hilarity. Socially it indicates a problem on your part, Mr. Martin, and this is pretty much the way of the world and always will be, because normal guys don’t act like this. Ta.
PS in discussing nerve endings I’m talking about the circumcised penis, and I’m talking about the external clit. I don’t know the numbers of how many men are circumcised vs. not circumcised and I don’t know the numbers for the internal clit–the whole organ, incidentally, being the only human body part that exists explicitly for sexual pleasure. Women aren’t largely orgasmless creatures! And all the issues this guy is weirdly obsessed with come from long-time patriarchal structures, focus on the man, demonization of female sexuality, and on and on. And this is not, dear Mr. Paranoid, my saying that *men* are to blame as individuals, but that the structures of our society have afforded us this problem. It is up to men to educate themselves on this too, and to fight the culturally ingrained idea that penetrative sex is the most important sex. This will eliminate this whole problem you think is some oppression of women by men.
I believe the foreskin have more nerve endings than the clit. Not sure about internal vs. external on that. And I support activism against circumcision, which again is something some MRAs weirdly blame on women, or that the loss of that sensation is equal to women losing the entire external organ and then often, yes, becoming orgasmless. If you’re fixated on female lack of orgasm you should be a rabid activist against female genital mutilation. Which is very different in its ultimate effect than circumcision, which is a very big issue in itself, just a *different* one.
Think I’ll whip out the vibrator and chuckle in this guy’s direction now.
It also needs a positive word to specifically describe a person who is absolutely opposed to kitten-huffing.
What word did you search for?
Calling someone “B” is tantamount to calling them “beta”, which is the kind of shaming Tom would not engage in.
Have fun with that, HM.
That was weird.
Butch females are the funny kind of female cuz nobody wants to laugh at females but they laugh at butch females its cuz they do not see them as women because they do not perform female sex roles = male
Oh-kay, sparklywordvomit. Feel better now? Idiot.
True story: Madeline Kahn is the reason for my `nym.
Thanks for that, HM. In summary:
Many women would like [thing that many men already have or can easily get], but are conditioned not to ask for it. Some people blame men who could help provide it but don’t.
Therefore men are the victims.
@Cassandrasays
I think “lifestyle of the rich and famous” is just another one of those areas, like so many others, where MRAs watch fictional TV and movies and believe they’re watching documentaries. From what I’ve seen of wealthy people I’ve learned not to envy them so much. Most of the time, their marriages fail because both the husband and wife are SO BUSY (working 90 hours per week busy, sometime she doesn’t have a job but works the charity circuit) that they grow apart. When affairs happen, it’s usually with someone from work because *those are the only people they see regularly enough*… It’s not all hookers and blow and international espionage.
Regarding witty company, case in point: Warren Buffet’s recent divorce. Yes, his wife was much younger (around 40, while he’s 75, iirc), but by all accounts she’s a fairly accomplished and whip smart lady. He’s rich enough that he could’ve just stuck with a harem of 16-year-old cheerleaders and beauty pagent contestants, Hugh Hefner-style, until he drew his last. But I’d wager he actually at least *admired* his wife and enjoyed her company, even if it was not a whirlwind romance.
It *is* projection. These guys can’t imagine anyone having the means and the opportunity to be a totally craven, greedy, selfish asshole and not taking advantage of it, because they would be if they could.
Translation, I’m going to try to reinvent the wheel anyway, even though I have no resources, no abilities of my own, and no basic understanding of how shit works.
This is something you’ll have a hard time proving, since you can’t actually prove that they’re thinking about gold-digging. How are you planning on accounting for this? If you’re going to try to account for it via promising an award for the funniest, then sorry, you’re just reproving Dan Pink’s point. To prove that it’s especially egregious in women, you’d HAVE to use men as a control group and you’d also have to account for income level for men and women. Which, ultimately, proves shit about gold-digging, but a lot about people’s work motivation. If you promise women cash prizes for “funniest” then you are simply proving that women actually want to work for a reward, just like men do. So how are you planning on being able to prove specifically that it’s a rich husband/boyfriend/sugar daddy these women who volunteer (assuming you can get them) are after and not, you know, a cash prize they earn themselves?
How do you account for the tons of male comedians who’s entire schtick’s consist of lots of gendered “jokes” and extremely weak, watered down, rehashed versions of bullshit that’s been done for roughly a million (proverbial comedic) years?
Sure you are. You just believe women are incapable of doing comedy as well as men. You also believe 97% of women are whores. Oh, and that women aren’t smart or funny because their brains are full of useless cooking recipes and thoughts about gold-digging. This is totally egalitarian.
Where are they going to come from? I do believe you’ve been laughed out of academia; I have a hard time believing any self-respecting professor would work with you. But if, by some chance, you can manage to get one curious enough about the project to want to come by just to watch you fail, I do hope you’re planning on paying them more than minimum wage. These are highly trained professionals who are gambling a lot to risk their names and life’s work by allowing you to use them in your video (assuming it comes together at all). Not to mention, good luck getting someone who actually is qualified to talk about brains. Just having someone who’s professor of evo-psych at Glenn Beck’s University of Smartology doesn’t cut it.
Yeah… ok. Good luck with that, champ.
Glad your ablation/tubal went well, hellkell! (Or should I call you David? See other thread.) How are you feeling?
Cloudiah: I’m feeling mighty sore but ok. I’m lying here waiting for the Furrinati onslaught to keep me company.
You can call me Dave, just don’t call me Al.
@Anadiomene: IDK, I think that depends on whether they’re rich and wealthy because they always work, as you describe, or if they have more inherited money. Back when I was twenty I knew some guys who came from really rich families, and their lives seemed perfectly fine to me. They were mostly really nice to hang out with, like with tons of money also came tons of relaxed confidence, albeit a bit clueless when it came to how most people live. I used to think back then that the idea that all really rich people must be unhappy deep inside or else complete bastards is a Hollywood invention so that ordinary people won’t feel jealous on those who never have to worry about money…
So… here’s what I have to say about HM:s posts, after skimming through them:
1. There’s this cultural narrative according to which men are the active part in sex and women are mere recipients. Part of this narrative is that women aren’t supposed to actively tell what they like or dislike, part is that it’s the men’s responsibility to give women pleasure and a man who lacks the telepathy sometimes needed to do that is “bad in bed”. This narrative is toxic for BOTH men and women.
2. SOME feminists seem to think it’s very feminist to blame men for being “bad in bed” when they don’t have telepathic powers, because they’ve bought into the above narrative. That’s bad. Lots of other feminists realize this.
3. Circumcised men losing as much sensitivity as women who’s had their entire clit cut off…? WTF…? Not that I’ve done a scientific study on this, but I doubt it. It seems really implausible on the face of it, so I won’t believe it until serious quotation is given.
4. Da Truth About Women’s Pleasure can be find by measuring blood flow through their vaginas…? Doubtful. Sure, people’s self reports aren’t always reliable, and lots of women probably are dishonest for lots of various reasons. Still, you can have bodily arousal reactions without feeling aroused and the other way around, so it’s not like you get a perfect lie detector by hooking up machines to people’s genitals.
And these were my two cents.
@Dvärghundspossen
You seemed to understand zir better than I. All I got was ‘PIV is not good for all women’ and then it went on for like, four long posts.
Hey, history nerds?
Keep at it. History trivia may save the world.
The wealthy-because-I-earned-it group actually has a key problem that works against them being happy. SMBC highlighted it a bit awhile ago–basically, it boils down to the fact that if you’re a working professional in a field like law or medicine, your hourly rate is usually something extraordinary–which means that, in order to be able to justify leisure time, you have to justify a ‘cost’ of hundreds of dollars every hour.
So work tends to eat up more of your life, the more successful you get, because the opportunity cost of having fun goes up as your pay rises. Meanwhile, me? My time is about $13 an hour. That’s nowhere near enough for me to consider it ‘worth it’ to forgo even simple pleasures.
That’s interesting, Freemage. I studied economics ages ago, and one thing I remember was that our professor said that economists had predicted that people would work more the higher they were paid, since high salary=freetime is more expensive, but actual studies have shown that it’s actually the other way around. When people have really high salary they work less if they can get away with it. Which makes sense to me at least; if you can live comfortably on working less, because you earn so much by the hour, why not do so?
BUT as I said this was ages ago (to be precise, fifteen years ago). People’s behaviour might have changed over the years, and since it was so long ago I don’t even remember if the pattern I mentioned holds all over the world or merely have been observed some particular place.
If I would merely speculate, my guess would be that people in high-paid jobs often work many hours mainly because it’s expected of people in their position, and they don’t really have the choice to cut back and work less.
Hey everyone, I know this is off-topic, but I recently told a friend about Roosh practically admitting to raping someone on one blog post, and now she’s curious about where to find it. I’m having trouble finding it so far. Does anyone have a link to the Man Boobz entry that has it?
Oh, I’ve just found it. Sorry for that.
HM said “Think I’ll whip out the vibrator and chuckle in this guy’s direction now.”
HM there, everybody.
Let’s all just take a moment…
I’m laughing with her…
I’m still laughing with her…
HM, thanks for communicating honestly about your sexuality – I’m glad you find it sexy when someone challenges your views. Thanks for posting those bits I wrote on somegreybloke’s vlog, then disagreeing with me, then agreeing or something, and then, crucially, getting the vibrator out.
I think I can speak on behalf of everyone here, when I say, you’re reflexivity is an inspiration to feminism – how did the vibration session go? Have you finished yet?