What do women want? Dudes. In groups. Especially dudes who hate them.
That, in any case, seems to be the conclusion drawn by a blogger who calls himself Hipster Racist, and who seems to be a white supremacist of some kind. Anyway, he’s written a little post about the rise of Reddit’s Red and Blue Pill Subreddits and how they illustrate the Mannerbund Effect, a theory that helps to explain just why it is that the ladies allegedly like getting up in men’s business so much.
Here’s how HR tells the story of the two subreddits:
Someone created a section of reddit called TheRedPill which is devoted to “game,” seduction and anti-feminism. Essentially, a group of young men comparing notes on their various romantic successes and failures, which for obvious reasons, include a lot of frustration and what some might call misogyny. … Some of these men talk about “gaming” women in the same sense you might talk about training a dog. Gaming bitches, they might even say.
Yeah, some might call that misogyny.
The men’s romantic advice to each other essentially boils down to: women are selfish and incapable of love, so never fall in love, just improve yourself, lift weights, make money, dress better, and the women will come running.
Yeah, some might call that misogyny too.
As if on cue, the women show up and create TheBluePill a section of reddit exclusively focused on mocking, shaming, and attacking TheRedPill with anti-male rhetoric just as critical and harsh and the anti-female rhetoric of TheRedPill.
Now, pretty much none of that is true. TheBluePill is populated by a lot of dudes as well as women and the subreddit is basically an elaborate parody of the Red Pill subreddit, punctuated by occasional serious posts when people there are too astonished by the misogyny to make jokes about it. Take a look. If you can find any sincere anti-male rhetoric within it, posted by a regular commenter and with net upvotes, I’ll literally mail you a dollar.
But what is so fascinating about the dynamic is this: the men exclusively discuss how to improve themselves, while the women exclusively discuss … how the men can improve themselves. Obviously, they have very different views of what “improvement” looks like, the men essentially say “be more macho” while they women essentially say “be less macho.”
Well, not exactly. The advice in The Blue Pill subreddit is really only implicit advice, and it isn’t so much “be less macho” as it is “don’t be a misogynistic, manipulative, rapey asshole who gets validation from a bunch of other misogynistic, manipulative, rapey assholes like those Red Pill dudes on Reddit.”
Anyway, so Mr. Hipster Racist thinks that what all this means is that the Blue Pill ladies want the Red Pill men, and want them bad.
The dynamic plays itself out, over and over again, constantly. A group of men get together – the Mannerbund is formed – and do something. The women then show up, watch the men, and either cheer them, or heckle them.
But when the boys get together, the one thing the girls cannot do is ignore them.
Mr. Racist refers us to the manosphere-famous video of the protests of the Warren Farrell talk at the University of Toronto from last year. He points us to one female protester who became notorious in the manosphere for shouting at one of Farrell’s male fans, declaring him to be a “fucking rape apologist, incest supporting, woman hating, fucking scum.”
To Mr. Racist, only one thing could be driving this much apparent hate: pure animal lust.
Look at the man, look at the woman, and look at how the woman is looking at the man. Look at her eyes.
You could cut that sexual tension with a knife.
No. Just no. Sometimes a “you fucking rape apologist” is just a “you fucking rape apologist.”
So, anyway, someone took the opportunity to post Mr. Racist’s reflections on the Mannerbund Effect to the Red Pill subreddit — well, ok, that “someone” was Mr. Racist himself — where it met with many huzzahs.
My favorite comment of the bunch comes– surprise! — from Mr. Racist, posting as jack50s; it’s almost Penthouse Lettersesque in its sophomoric eroticism:
Later, Mr. Racist wandered into the Blue Pill subreddit, and quickly convinced himself that everyone there, including me, had the hots for him. (To be fair, I did kind of lead him on a little.)
Huh. Apparently I’ve been awarded some sort of honorary Women’s Studies Degree from the Dean of Pompous Nazi Blogger University. That will help to ease the sting of rejection a little. A little. At least I have my cats.
@Kitten: NINE DOGS? I had no idea you had dogs! Thought you just had all these cats!
And I thought my sister and her boyfriend had lots of pets (nine cats)!
@cassandrasays
I second this! (or whatever it is at this point. Second sounds better though).
@Dvärghundspossen
I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but I think it’d be way more enjoyable to be alone (with
catsguinea pigs!) than in an unhappy relationship.@kittehs
That is… a lot of pets. I’m kinda jealous. Though I think I’d be totally overwhelmed trying to take care of that many pets, so best to envy from afar.
Kitteh — keeping people’s dearly departed pets happy? ‘Tis a very important service. (If you come across any foot long cranky / rock-like plecs, he liked the seaweed wraps sushi comes in)
Okay, now I’m awake again, so back to Much Ado… Yeah, it was Beatrice/Benedick, and mostly it’s Shakespeare, but it definitely did veer into somewhat hostile territory I thought. But then all is magically resolved. Still, better handled then your average Hollywood movie.
Dvarghundspossen and Marie – take note, that giant fur family is across the veil! The kitties are ones who spent their earthly lives with me (apart from one) and the dogs are Louis’s, all but two from his earthly days. On this side of the veil, the most cats I’ve had is five, but now we’ve only two (sniff, sniff).
Argetnti – lol, that’s pretty much how Louis would describe it, I think! Babysitter to all my cats until I get there permanently. Tho’ now I spend my nights there, at least I do half the lap-nap duty. 😛
Is plec a saltwater or freshwater fish? We don’t get to the sea often, but if he’s freshwater and deigns to pass through the streams in our part of the world we might see him. Or not, if he’s being cranky.
Okay Kitten, guess that makes it a bit easier to manage! 😀 We often talk about our ghost animals, who sometimes seem to make themselves heard or leave various traces… 🙂 But or four dogs are the currently living ones.
Freshwater, and he tends to look like a black rock until the “did that rock just move? Nawh, couldn’t have” (good luck catching him though, maybe just toss some veggies in?)
http://geekygothgirl.tumblr.com/post/52526859709/on-sexism-and-comic-con-panels Yet another mansplaining dudebro in comics…. Dammit!
LOL yes, I’d hate to be dealing with that many furkids on this side – at least over There we don’t have to clean up poos and they don’t need to eat, though they sure like stealing our food. (We don’t need to eat either, but Louis likes cooking, so hey.)
We tried Bircher museli (I think) for breakfast yesternight. Surprise surprise, Katie decided to help herself to some, from my bowl. She always did like shoving her head into my bowl here; I used to eat breakfast with my elbow stuck out to keep her out of it.
She also decided that on my chest and in my face was the place to be while we were lying on the garden swing seat. I think she’s asserting herself ‘cos of all the attention Mads is getting on this side!
It was lovely to have memories this morning, haven’t had any for a while. 🙂
Argenti – good, we’ll chuck some veggies in the streams and hope he’s passing by! 🙂
@freemage:
Ugh, what an ass. Seriously, the worst you can do to any fans or potential fans of a medium is talking down on them like this dude does. “Comics aren’t real?” Well colour me fucking violet purple indigo surprised. That still doesn’t mean that comics happen in a vacuum, and that they don’t have the power to shape ideas in our society. The rampant misogyny in geek circles pisses me off.
I actually checked out the Legacy Action Comics blogspot site after reading Geeky Goth Girl’s thoughts. At first glance, it looked like a neat little company run by a group of friends, but this guy Andrew’s annoying blabber made the entry so hard to read.
Yeah, we don’t crave realistic, relatable women in our comics. We want to see babes! With big boobs! And nice butts! Preferably, we want to see both at the same time*! Comics are for juvenile, sexist jerks, stop taking them seriously!
I’ll make sure I’ll never buy anything published by his company. Gods.
*see eschergirls.tumblr.com
And she got to wear clothes, too! If I recall, Martian women were perpetually naked in the books.
BTW, I for one would LOVE to see The Doctor regen’ed as a woman, even better as a woman of color, if for no other reason than to witness (and subsequently mock) the dudebronerd rage storm it would unleash.
“And I sensed a great disturbance in The Vortex, as though the heads of a million nerds all exploded in unison…”
This whole MGTOW is never going to work for long because a lot of men, whether they want to admit it or not, need love and affection from someone somewhere and unless they start getting with their buddies or get a pet, all I can see for them is a long, loveless life devoid of any real emotion. It’s human nature to want to love and be loved, to be wanted and needed and if one is starved off that, what do they have?
It seems the men on their ‘special needs’ forums just want to endlessly spout their hatred of women, nit picking at everything we do wrong and jerk off to porn on a loop day in day out. They may make lots of new men friends but that’s gonna get boring soon so wow. What a life that will be for you plus all these failed marriages/relationships they have, it takes two to fuck it up but they don’t seem to be looking too hard at what they did wrong. No. It’s all HER fault. If these women are the bitches from hell then why did they propose to them in the first place?
I also can’t stand the way they talk about women and sex either. It is demeaning, degrading, insulting and offensive. Some of the phrases they come out with are just shocking. It’s like what kind of disgusting animal are you? Would your mother be happy to hear you say ‘I couldn’t resist the smelly gash between her legs’. I mean WTF? Where the hell do you get off saying that? I’m sure many women are thinking well go your own way – at least it keeps you as far away from me as fucking possible you hateful loser.
@Digital_Spy – What’s the bet the guys who go on about how terrible women’s genitals smell are the same ones who’re outraged that they’re expected to wipe shit off their own arses and not leave skidmarks for a woman to wash out of their pants?
@Bob Goblin – “And I sensed a great disturbance in The Vortex, as though the heads of a million nerds all exploded in unison…”
Heheheh I like it. 🙂
In fairness, all Martians were perpetually naked, regardless of gender, including the ones who lived at the North Pole.
Radical Parrot: Yeah, the “comics aren’t real” thing makes me wish someone had come back at him with, “Ah, so you think this thing you do with your life is utterly devoid of meaning and purpose, a vacuous self-indulgence with no impact upon the reader at all? Must be an interesting ambition to literally leave behind nothing of worth.”
This is funny to me because at my son’s preschool they give us elaborate reports on what the kids are doing in school every week, and one recent report told of the boys building a fort and creating all kinds of traps and barriers to keep out the girls, who according to the game were engaged in an all-out effort to capture the boys and kiss them.
The report included photos which showed, quite charmingly and humorously, the girls paying absolutely no attention to the boys at all throughout this entire process.
I would imagine if these boys are still behaving this way in 20 years, it will be less charming.
@kittehs
That’d certainly help. It would be such a pain to feed that many pets XD (though like for some reason my brain’s not concerned about poos? My dog’s I just pick up on the walk, but I’ve never had to clean up after kitties, so maybe they’re harder.) Though my main worry with my pets is not giving them enough attention. Probably cuz I always worry about not being their for my pets when my depression acts up, since I”m more blah all around. And I will stop rambling now, because I have no idea if I’m any sense.
@radical parrot
Ugh :/ When are they going to realize that they’re just narrowing their target audience? (probably never, since they lack self-awarness, but a girl can dream).
@digital sky
‘special needs’? Kinda rubbing me the wrong way, seeing if I can put why into words: Maybe cuz (in US, idk other places) special needs is used as code for disabled, least in the school I was in, so, especially with the scare quotes, it’s striking me as some wtf comparison. Idk if this is just me though?
That set my teeth on edge too.
Bronies: Well, there’s a theory that the MLP: FIM characters are being turned into teenage girls for their movie as Brony fanservice.
John Carter and Deja Thoris: It’s been a while since I read any John Carter, and I only read Princess of Mars, but Tamora Pierce’s foreword to Under the Moons of Mars (you can read it in the preview) makes me think that his female characters weren’t bad for their time, at least. If he helped inspire Tamora Pierce he must have been doing something right.
I loved the first Jackson Hobbit movie! But I will not defend that interminable fighting/fleeing sequence in Goblintown. Interminable AND the way they basically mowed down the goblins made it look too easy for them, sort of “of course nothing will happen to them, they’re the heroes”… (And that sequence could be blamed more on catering to male audiences. Squeeze in some more action! Adrenaline! ACTION!!!) Most of the other stuff that the critics complained about as “boring”/”too long” etc (e.g. the Misty Mountain song the dwarves sing) I liked. Did not care for the addition of the white orc, and I had some specific reasons why, but I can’t remember them. 🙂 I pretty much agree with this review about making Thorin more of a tragic hero than the mostly-contemptible character he is in the book. The lady elf character looks cool based on the few seconds of her we’ve seen so far. In terms of appealing to women and girls, I’m more worried about whether Legolas appearing will feel natural or will feel shoehorned in.
Anyone else seen the movie Ringers, with Dominic Monaghan narrating? I seem to remember it saying that all the adult Hobbit fans were mad at the Rankin-Bass adaptation, basically because it was more-obviously-made-for-children, and made The Hobbit no longer cool. But they were just tailoring it to the original audience!
@Marie: Argh, tell me about it! Trying to explain my love of comics to friends whose idea is based on the mainstream stuff that too often caters to the sexist crowd* is an impossible task. “A woman’s powers depend upon her kissing people? Really?” “Don’t all the women in comics dress exclusively in latex underwear and prance around in it in public?” It doesn’t matter how much I explain that there is good stuff out there too, if what they see is such sexist crap, I can’t blame them for finding comics off-putting.
People whine when “their” stuff is not appreciated by more people, yet they whine when more people are interested in “their” stuff. Particularly when women are, since apparently women liking things other than shopping and lipstick is unnatural or something. Gah.
/rant
On another note, count me in with the folks who quite enjoyed the first Hobbit movie, particularly the scenes with Thorin* or the White Council. The inclusion of Radagast was a nice touch, though the rabbit chase scene was way too long. I didn’t mind the slapstick, seeing as this is a more lighthearted tale, but the running and yelling became really old really fast. However, I simply love Martin Freeman as Bilbo Baggins. He’s almost too perfect in my opinion.
Regarding Legolas… meh. Just don’t give him as many “look how awesome Legolas is!!!!!eleven!” scenes as they gave him in the LotR trilogy, and we’re good. I do hope the inclusion of Tauriel isn’t part of any dumb romance subplot, that instead they make her just another elf who kicks ass, and that no one makes a big deal out of the fact that she’s female (misandry!).
I would have loved if they’d followed the books closer regarding Azog (the white orc). They really missed an opportunity to portray Azog’s son, Bolg, as wanting to avenge his father, and subsequently given an orc a motivation beyond “I’m an orc! I’m evil! RAARGH!” That would have been a nice nod to Tolkien’s musings about whether or not all orcs were inherently evil.
But yeah, as closetpuritan typed earlier, Thorin Oakenshield is shaping up to be a complex, tragic figure. I do hope some of the other dwarves get a similar treatment. Less pointless action and more character development, and I can get behind drawing this out to three full-length movies.
*Yes, regarding both points: I hate it when misogynistic assholes (far too common in the geek circles I frequent) call casting Richard Armitage in the role of Thorin, a dwarf, as “catering to fangirls”, yet don’t see anything wrong with offering them eye candy at every corner.
Digital sky’s comment on “special needs” did make me flinch a bit when I read it, but I dont think he/she meant it like people who are mentally handicapped. It sounded like a reference to how many MRAs whine about “needing” a girlfriend or a place to call women bitches and sluts for nothing.
@auggziliary: That’s exactly what I meant but I do apologise to everyone who was offended by it as I can understand what it may have sounded like. And @Kittehsurf: LOL. The shitting their pants and getting women to wash it for them made me really laugh! Sooooo right!
@Radical Parrot:
Yes, “fanservice” for straight guys is casting an attractive woman and having her in her underwear while the male lead looks at her and she tells him not to look (Star Trek: Into Darkness). “Fanservice” for women is casting an attractive man and… that’s it. It’s not like he wears a ridiculous costume for the sake of sex appeal. There isn’t even any shirtlessness! Thorin being that attractive is a little surprising, but I don’t think it has a negative effect on the movie; it’s not implausible (as opposed to the aforementioned Star Trek scene, which apparently had no explanation except “a mystery”.)
I think I’d blocked the Radagast-and-rabbits chase from my mind.
What what? In the ‘Bundt!
What what? In the ‘Bundt!
You wanna do it, in the ‘Bundt?
What what? In the ‘Bundt!