What do women want? Dudes. In groups. Especially dudes who hate them.
That, in any case, seems to be the conclusion drawn by a blogger who calls himself Hipster Racist, and who seems to be a white supremacist of some kind. Anyway, he’s written a little post about the rise of Reddit’s Red and Blue Pill Subreddits and how they illustrate the Mannerbund Effect, a theory that helps to explain just why it is that the ladies allegedly like getting up in men’s business so much.
Here’s how HR tells the story of the two subreddits:
Someone created a section of reddit called TheRedPill which is devoted to “game,” seduction and anti-feminism. Essentially, a group of young men comparing notes on their various romantic successes and failures, which for obvious reasons, include a lot of frustration and what some might call misogyny. … Some of these men talk about “gaming” women in the same sense you might talk about training a dog. Gaming bitches, they might even say.
Yeah, some might call that misogyny.
The men’s romantic advice to each other essentially boils down to: women are selfish and incapable of love, so never fall in love, just improve yourself, lift weights, make money, dress better, and the women will come running.
Yeah, some might call that misogyny too.
As if on cue, the women show up and create TheBluePill a section of reddit exclusively focused on mocking, shaming, and attacking TheRedPill with anti-male rhetoric just as critical and harsh and the anti-female rhetoric of TheRedPill.
Now, pretty much none of that is true. TheBluePill is populated by a lot of dudes as well as women and the subreddit is basically an elaborate parody of the Red Pill subreddit, punctuated by occasional serious posts when people there are too astonished by the misogyny to make jokes about it. Take a look. If you can find any sincere anti-male rhetoric within it, posted by a regular commenter and with net upvotes, I’ll literally mail you a dollar.
But what is so fascinating about the dynamic is this: the men exclusively discuss how to improve themselves, while the women exclusively discuss … how the men can improve themselves. Obviously, they have very different views of what “improvement” looks like, the men essentially say “be more macho” while they women essentially say “be less macho.”
Well, not exactly. The advice in The Blue Pill subreddit is really only implicit advice, and it isn’t so much “be less macho” as it is “don’t be a misogynistic, manipulative, rapey asshole who gets validation from a bunch of other misogynistic, manipulative, rapey assholes like those Red Pill dudes on Reddit.”
Anyway, so Mr. Hipster Racist thinks that what all this means is that the Blue Pill ladies want the Red Pill men, and want them bad.
The dynamic plays itself out, over and over again, constantly. A group of men get together – the Mannerbund is formed – and do something. The women then show up, watch the men, and either cheer them, or heckle them.
But when the boys get together, the one thing the girls cannot do is ignore them.
Mr. Racist refers us to the manosphere-famous video of the protests of the Warren Farrell talk at the University of Toronto from last year. He points us to one female protester who became notorious in the manosphere for shouting at one of Farrell’s male fans, declaring him to be a “fucking rape apologist, incest supporting, woman hating, fucking scum.”
To Mr. Racist, only one thing could be driving this much apparent hate: pure animal lust.
Look at the man, look at the woman, and look at how the woman is looking at the man. Look at her eyes.
You could cut that sexual tension with a knife.
No. Just no. Sometimes a “you fucking rape apologist” is just a “you fucking rape apologist.”
So, anyway, someone took the opportunity to post Mr. Racist’s reflections on the Mannerbund Effect to the Red Pill subreddit — well, ok, that “someone” was Mr. Racist himself — where it met with many huzzahs.
My favorite comment of the bunch comes– surprise! — from Mr. Racist, posting as jack50s; it’s almost Penthouse Lettersesque in its sophomoric eroticism:
Later, Mr. Racist wandered into the Blue Pill subreddit, and quickly convinced himself that everyone there, including me, had the hots for him. (To be fair, I did kind of lead him on a little.)
Huh. Apparently I’ve been awarded some sort of honorary Women’s Studies Degree from the Dean of Pompous Nazi Blogger University. That will help to ease the sting of rejection a little. A little. At least I have my cats.
@Argenti
The one 11 mentioned was the Corsair, who never appeared on screen as far as I’m aware, unless you count the creepy caretaker guy’s arm… which I’m not going to because I’d like to continue not thinking about that… *shudder*
As far as I know, Romana only ever regen’d into a woman, although we only saw her regen once that I can remember. Interestingly enough though, she was able to pick her appearance which is something the doctor was never able to do. There are some people who have claimed that this is a reason why the doctor shouldn’t be a woman next time, because he doesn’t have the ability to pick his appearance. To me it seems more like a good reason that he should, because if it’s entirely up to chance then it’s entirely up to chance, and I’m pretty sure that it being possible to regen as a different gender makes it possible, and thus available to chance, even if it’s a low chance. (Sorry if it sounds like I’m talking in tautologies here… it’s because I am. I got into the habit while talking to the maddeningly narrow minded, and it’s a hard habit to kick.)
I really don’t understand why it’s so upsetting for these people. The world’s most interesting people are not exclusively straight white males… so what? And why should the worlds most interesting characters always be straight white males? It’s not like anyone’s calling for the eradication of straight white males in fiction or the real world.
This might be the first use of the phrase “first world problems” that I’ve read in the past two years that is actually valid. Though, to be fair, all the other instances have been dudebros whining about women wanting to be treated like humans, pointing out that women in other parts of the world have far worse problems (and, of course, the men in those regions have even worse problems!) Or religious fanatics whining about lgbtq peeps wanting to be treated like humans, pointing out that lgbtq peeps in other parts of the world have far worse problems (and they deserve it because they’re all degenerates!)
Regarding Mannerbund – until recently, I was very active in my Masonic lodge. It was very much not a dudebro environment, despite being all-male. It did strike me sometimes how, for most of the brethren, it was the ONLY all-male environment they’d ever experienced. Civil behavior and respectful language were the order of the day, which would bother most MRAs.
Regarding “Hobbit”,the book is even more of a sausage fest than LoTR. Tolkien apparently did not feel any narrative or thematic imperative to include significant female characters. The filmmakers apparently thought that this would work less well in a series of movies made in today’s modern world of the future. Cue butthurt
Curse you, blockquote monster. Let’s try that again.
Actually it was a children-targeted book, which the filmmakers are being kind enough to make into a more adult-targeted movie (or at least one that won’t be actively offputting to adults), so the fanboy dudebros really need to stop whining unless they’re under 12 and would be happy with a movie that was more obviously made for children.
“Apparently I’ve been awarded some sort of honorary Women’s Studies Degree from the Dean of Pompous Nazi Blogger University.” hahahaha
That’s great David. I have been told by YouTube trolls that I have a university degree in cum-sluttery…
I read the redit and now know what Mr. Racist means when he tells you you are creepy and gross…. He wants you!
😉
@Dvarghundspossen –
Sorry for the massive blockquote, but THIS. So much this. What’s the point of a relationship that’s so much hard work? That’s not a relationship, it’s a crap job for lousy pay and no prospects.
@Malitia – so much cute! Loved it! Especially the tiny clever kitty and the leaping bunny.
I often feel like every new movie with a relationship theme should be titled More Weird and Toxic Ideas About Relationships That You Should Have Grown Out of Before The Age of 21.
notice how MRAs are usually the ones who leave pissy comments about female characters that kick ass or have some attitude? (there are a few in that Hobbit thread) it offends them. Like how dare this woman act confident and tough! how dare she think she is good at what she does!
and they try to tell us they’re all for the equality and not at all sexist traditionalists. Why take offense to those characters then? why not take offense at the legions of male characters who act the same way? are decades of movies/books/games with simpering, pathetic damsels not enough for them?
oh yeah, only men enjoy seeing themselves as kick ass heroes. Women just adore seeing their gender portrayed as useless.
“notice how MRAs are usually the ones who leave pissy comments about female characters that kick ass or have some attitude?”
I remember when they were all up in arms about Flo from the Progressive commercials… Apparently she is Everything that is Wrong with Modern Women. That one really stumped me. Still does.
I’m also a big non-fan of the hate-to-love relationship arc and how two characters instantly fighting or disliking each other is the sign that they’re going to get together later. I understand the storytelling utility (you want their relationship to arc, and it’s boring if they just start out indifferent to each other), but I always end up going “…But they hated each other! Why are they suddenly making out?”
katz, Have you seen Whedon’s Much Ado About Nothing? Big chunk of hate-to-love going on there. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed watching the movie, but afterwards me and my friend thought it was odd how things were “resolved”.
Huh, I haven’t seen it yet, but I’m a big fan of Much Ado in general. If we’re talking about Beatrice/Benedick, I’ve always just interpreted that as friendly banter, which of course happens perfectly often IRL between people with UST. Do they make it more of a real dislike in his version? Or are we talking about a different relationship?
I just want to know how in the hell they can make 3 movies from The Hobbit??? I actually just read the book (been meaning to get around to it) and it was good, but not really all that enthralling like I thought it would be. It is enjoyable in that way that very old books are, the language and quaint way of describing things. If the movies do anything they are just taking a sort of dusty old story and making it really grand and epic. That is kinda what movies should do in my opinion.
Three movies from The Hobbit bent my brain outta shape too. Not that I’m going to see them. I didn’t like the look or the character and story changes in LotR, and don’t care for the look of this one, either, apart from the actor playing Bilbo. Not that I’m gonna go down that discussion path again, lol. It’s simply not to my taste. 🙂
My first thought about there being 3 movies was “cynical cash grab”. Can’t say anything I’ve seen since has changed that.
QFTW!
Sounds about right. “Lots of padding” comes to mind, too. The story as written simply doesn’t support that much footage, and it is a kids’ book, however much they try to ramp it up to EPIC level.
@Kitten:
Just as you’re supposed to put up with a crap employment out of fear of unemployment I guess you’re supposed to put up with a relationship that you constantly need to work on and compromise in out of fear of ending up ALONE WITH CATS.
What, you weren’t a fan of the Denny’s promotional tie-in menu?
(That may have been the worst thing ever in the history of things. Not only is it a shameless sellout, but to something as crass and tasteless as Denny’s. And they didn’t even try to make it thematically appropriate either to the work as a whole or the particular things each dish is named after; the best they can manage is a partial alliteration. Gandalf gets a turkey sandwich? Bilbo gets a smoothie? Ugh. There is no possible way they could more transparently cash in on “Fans will buy any shit with this movie’s name on it.”)
Saw a teaser for The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug and was very put off by the frantic energy and over-the-topness of everything. Obviously, novels and films are not quite the same thing (which is why I think many good novels make poor films and vice versa), but I didn’t feel intrigued at all by the prospect of watching it. Tolkien’s story telling is very much cozier for this book and it just appears to me that the Peter Jackson version is trying to make it into something else entirely.
I suppose trying to make The Hobbit into a prequel to LOTR films is in part responsible. The books are very different in tone and maturity (which maybe is reflected in the women who play large roles in the world of LOTR and barely seem to exist in The Hobbit). Maybe a good spot to develop some of the LOTR backstory and all that, but maybe I’m just a little too emotionally attached to the books to really appreciate the films…
@Dvarghundspossen:
Heheh little do they know that ending up alone with cats/dogs/furrinati* of choice is a reward, not a threat, if the alternative is a horribile relationship. I wonder if the MRA-types who harp on this point think it’s so terrible, not just because of the old standard about women having to be in relationships or being failures, etc, but because MRAs have never had pets, or at least never felt affection for animals, and can’t grasp that plenty of people are more than happy to live that way? It’d fit with their absence of any other sort of tenderness.
*furrinati being a cover term for any critters, including those who aren’t furry. 🙂
@proudfootz – totally agree with you on the tone and feel of The Hobbit being so different from LotR, and not at all suited to Jackson’s style of film. It’s a long time since I read the Middle Earth books, but I loved them for decades and have read them many times, and have no wish to see the films.
BTW is your nym from the Proudfoot hobbit family? I remember the scene at Bilbo’s birthday party where he called them Proudfoots and was corrected by one, who had his feet on the table at the time.
@Proudfoot and Kitten: I don’t mind the idea in itself of making the Hobbit a prequel that is similar in tone to the LOTR-movies, despite the books being very different. And I don’t mind expanding the Hobbit with stuff from other Tolkien books to make it more of a proper prequel.
What I do mind is
– padding
– drawn-out action sequences that serves no proper dramatic purpose
– making three whole movies out of it just for the sake of money
@Kitten: I think so too. You can have wonderful relationships with animals. They’re not a stand-in for relationships with human beings, because the relationships are essentially different, but valuable in their own way. People who think of single people with pets as trying to compensate for not having a spouse just don’t get that.
(If pets were some kind of consolation for not finding a spouse btw, what are me and Husband doing with four dogs?)
Either:
Bein’ weird
Fulfilling your proper roles as servants to the Great Furred Ones
(For that matter, what are Mr K and I doing with ten cats and nine dogs? Probably better not answer that!)