What do women want? Dudes. In groups. Especially dudes who hate them.
That, in any case, seems to be the conclusion drawn by a blogger who calls himself Hipster Racist, and who seems to be a white supremacist of some kind. Anyway, he’s written a little post about the rise of Reddit’s Red and Blue Pill Subreddits and how they illustrate the Mannerbund Effect, a theory that helps to explain just why it is that the ladies allegedly like getting up in men’s business so much.
Here’s how HR tells the story of the two subreddits:
Someone created a section of reddit called TheRedPill which is devoted to “game,” seduction and anti-feminism. Essentially, a group of young men comparing notes on their various romantic successes and failures, which for obvious reasons, include a lot of frustration and what some might call misogyny. … Some of these men talk about “gaming” women in the same sense you might talk about training a dog. Gaming bitches, they might even say.
Yeah, some might call that misogyny.
The men’s romantic advice to each other essentially boils down to: women are selfish and incapable of love, so never fall in love, just improve yourself, lift weights, make money, dress better, and the women will come running.
Yeah, some might call that misogyny too.
As if on cue, the women show up and create TheBluePill a section of reddit exclusively focused on mocking, shaming, and attacking TheRedPill with anti-male rhetoric just as critical and harsh and the anti-female rhetoric of TheRedPill.
Now, pretty much none of that is true. TheBluePill is populated by a lot of dudes as well as women and the subreddit is basically an elaborate parody of the Red Pill subreddit, punctuated by occasional serious posts when people there are too astonished by the misogyny to make jokes about it. Take a look. If you can find any sincere anti-male rhetoric within it, posted by a regular commenter and with net upvotes, I’ll literally mail you a dollar.
But what is so fascinating about the dynamic is this: the men exclusively discuss how to improve themselves, while the women exclusively discuss … how the men can improve themselves. Obviously, they have very different views of what “improvement” looks like, the men essentially say “be more macho” while they women essentially say “be less macho.”
Well, not exactly. The advice in The Blue Pill subreddit is really only implicit advice, and it isn’t so much “be less macho” as it is “don’t be a misogynistic, manipulative, rapey asshole who gets validation from a bunch of other misogynistic, manipulative, rapey assholes like those Red Pill dudes on Reddit.”
Anyway, so Mr. Hipster Racist thinks that what all this means is that the Blue Pill ladies want the Red Pill men, and want them bad.
The dynamic plays itself out, over and over again, constantly. A group of men get together – the Mannerbund is formed – and do something. The women then show up, watch the men, and either cheer them, or heckle them.
But when the boys get together, the one thing the girls cannot do is ignore them.
Mr. Racist refers us to the manosphere-famous video of the protests of the Warren Farrell talk at the University of Toronto from last year. He points us to one female protester who became notorious in the manosphere for shouting at one of Farrell’s male fans, declaring him to be a “fucking rape apologist, incest supporting, woman hating, fucking scum.”
To Mr. Racist, only one thing could be driving this much apparent hate: pure animal lust.
Look at the man, look at the woman, and look at how the woman is looking at the man. Look at her eyes.
You could cut that sexual tension with a knife.
No. Just no. Sometimes a “you fucking rape apologist” is just a “you fucking rape apologist.”
So, anyway, someone took the opportunity to post Mr. Racist’s reflections on the Mannerbund Effect to the Red Pill subreddit — well, ok, that “someone” was Mr. Racist himself — where it met with many huzzahs.
My favorite comment of the bunch comes– surprise! — from Mr. Racist, posting as jack50s; it’s almost Penthouse Lettersesque in its sophomoric eroticism:
Later, Mr. Racist wandered into the Blue Pill subreddit, and quickly convinced himself that everyone there, including me, had the hots for him. (To be fair, I did kind of lead him on a little.)
Huh. Apparently I’ve been awarded some sort of honorary Women’s Studies Degree from the Dean of Pompous Nazi Blogger University. That will help to ease the sting of rejection a little. A little. At least I have my cats.
Why he used the term Männerbund is probably to give an anthropological impression; to make give a fake scienficey. credence to his claims.
Not really a nazi term, although it has been used by them
“And of course, plan B is designed specifically to flush out recently fertilized eggs that hasn’t attached themselves to the wall of the womb yet” Which many eggs won’t do anyway
And people who call plan B &c an abortion drugare completely wrong, because there is no pregnancy until implantation, and hence there can be no abortion.
I think my brain just decided to flee
I can no longer th… the limericks. They do nothing.
My mind weeps.
@thekidwiththereplaceablehead
three whole women? I should talk to three women, it’s a really easy sample size. Though, I, myself, am a woman, so scientifically* this must cancel something out. Lady logic and all that.
*as close as I can use this word when talking about mra experiments?
What exactly is his use of “Männerbund” instead of “Fraternity” is meant to do or mean here? With his usename I can kind of see where he’s coming from, but it makes little sense beyond that.
This thread needs random cute!
http://i.imgur.com/dj5krAw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TSQfciM.jpg
http://mahou.imouto.org/board/pic/4a4e51d54e09a8a1a029d430467124db.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WSqKPt8.gif
Also my mom found some stuffed toys in the trash today. Including one like this… thing:
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4043/4310542548_0017bbfd10.jpg 🙂
When have MRAs and racists ever bothered about making sense?
/rhetorical question
Well… discussing words isn’t particularly interesting IMO. You might say to a plan-B-hater fundie that “look, the medical term ‘pregnancy’ only applies to the state of the body after implantation has occurred, and the term ‘abortion’ means terminating a pregnancy thus defined”, and show them all kinds of medical texts to support that this is actually how the medical community use these words – but the fundie could just reply that BECAUSE they regard all fertilized eggs as full human beings with a full set of moral rights, we OUGHT to start using the word ‘pregnancy’ for the state of the body after the egg is fertilized, even before implantation, and the word ‘abortion’ so that it covers plan-B-use as well. The meaning of certain words aren’t fixed forever; there are many instances of the use of certain words changing over time, and these changes are often connected to changes in morality (like how ‘rape’ has changed it’s meaning, for instance, because sexual morality has changed).
The basic problem here isn’t how fundies use various words, it’s their idea that all fertilized eggs are to count as full human beings with a full set of moral rights.
sorry to derail but you guys gotta check this out, they’re all enraged about the Hobbit again.
take a look at that long-ass comment by YetAnotherCommenter, which basically amounts too “well yeah the insults are gendered and the actresses was harassed, also with gendered slurs BUT IT’S TOTES NOT SEXIST JUST LAZY. Also SLASHFICTIONZ!!!
Every time the MRM targets something fandom oriented (gaming, comics) their arguments amount to NO GIRLS ALLOWED IN OUR CLUBHOUSE
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1gdz3t/hobbit_fans_pissed_off_at_new_female_character_so/
it’s funny, I can easily make a lazy agrument against not including a character that wasn’t in the books without using sexist, genedered slurs. It’d probably go something like:
“hey that character wasn’t in the books, shouldn’t the movie stick as closest to the book as possible? I and many other fans think it should.”
oh and check out this comment…sarcasm perhaps, but I doubt it
[–]IcarusLived -3 points 49 minutes ago
To be fair, Loki did actually get pregnant in the ancient myths. He gave birth to three monsters, among them Fenris.
That said, I hope this actress dies before they can finish filming. Tolkien is rolling over in his fucking grave.
permalinkparent
sorry for all my spelling errors too, I haven’t slept O_O
Quackers, yeah I heard some dude on radio when the first Hobbit movie came out last year who said, regarding Galadriel, that the movie makers oughtn’t include stuff that wasn’t in the book, that’s stupid, it’s as if they’d included talking fish, there are no talking fish in “the Hobbit” and thus they ought not to be any in the movie.
And I’m like “Uh, how did we get from Galadriel to talking fish?”. It’s not even as if they’ve been wildly diverting from the Tolkien universe as a whole – they’ve mostly managed to stretch out the little book to three whole movies by putting in stuff that’s mentioned in other Tolkien books, such as the white council (of which Galadriel is a member) meeting to discuss the rise of the necromancer. They HAVE expanded the role of Radagast a lot, but I’m personally okay with having him as a comic relief character.
I’m gonna follow Quackers example and derail a bit, but… recently I feel like I’ve come across tons of articles and books about how you need to COMPROMISE in a relationship and you need to WORK on that relationship of yours and you gotta ACCEPT that it can’t be all sunshine and roses but that you need to put in all this work and problem-solving and conflict-solving and compromise in order to live with someone.
It’s like there are tons of writers out there who think the standard narrative is that two people meet, fall in love, get married and live happily ever after with no effort at all, and it’s important to smash that standard narrative, because it’s unrealistic.
Except that this is pretty much what it was like for me; fell in love with Husband, got married and lived happily ever after, and it’s really no EFFORT living with him.
When I was nineteen to twenty I was in a terrible relationship with a guy which involved loads of compromise and conflict and problem-solving, but I thought it was supposed to be like that, because as a matter of fact, THAT is the standard narrative in our culture today.
I think that people do NOT need to be told that relationships involve all these compromises and conflicts and work work work. What people need to be told is that if your relationship look like that, maybe you should seriously consider whether it’s worth it, or if you’d be happier breaking up.
And I kept writing “people be told”, but I think this is a fairly gendered issue, that these articles and books talking about how all this compromise and problem-solving is a necessary part of a relationship are mainly read by women in hetero relationships.
Bwahahaha! My work here is done! /disappears in a cloud of feathers and sparkles
@Dvärghundspossen
Agreed. I can see why you’d perhaps want to put in some extra effort if you have children, but generally speaking, if a relationship feels more like a tedious task than something rewarding, why stay in it?
Oddly, Hipster Racist put a link to Sunshine Mary’s place on his blog yesterday. He is impressed with what she wrote about women having ravishment/rape fantasies b/c they secretly desire to be dominated by men. Sunshine’s blog post can be found at http://www.sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com
The argument I was presented with was that all forms of contraception are purest evil because they do “at best” prevent fertilization, and apparently it’s hard to see a distinction between something not starting, and something starting, progressing, and then being stopped. I had some trouble with that last… I mean, there’s a distinction within the sentence itself.
Probably shouldn’t be too quick to assume that this is the usual view though – this was a half-considered response to my pointing out that he’s clearly incapable of reading (in kinder words). Earlier in the conversation, I’d stated that I would really like to see a world without abortion, but since the religious right are so keen on teaching abstinence only education, there will probably always been unwanted pregnancies, but that I’d continue fighting for it nevertheless. There was then some discussion of morality, and he asserted that people like me, who “fight for abortion” have no place discussing morality, at which point I questioned his reading comprehension. So I think his comment was more about injured pride and needing to be right about how evil I am even if he can’t read, than a real desire to see every egg fertilised.
You know, I seem to remember there being a white orc in the Hobbit who never really saw any page time in the book… I wonder if they raged about that, too?
Funny thing, though, I’ve been discussing Dr Who recently, and we have the same thing there too:
Because, like, there has been nothing in the canon that suggests a timelord can change gender in their regenerations. Oh, and regeneration itself? Totally believable. Totally. Feh. It’s not even that I think that the next doctor needs to be female (although I’m hoping for Ellie Kendrick) it’s just that the idea of it is so ridiculous or offensive to some people… why? Blargh. The doctor is a hero because the doctor is heroic (some of the time…) not because he has had a penis until now.
@greysky
Ditto/ thirding.
@Athywren: Regarding the doctor and his DNA… um, in order for him to look completely different, DNA has to be rewritten already, since appearance depends a lot on DNA. As you said, it’s complete fantasy to start with.
I don’t get the abortion debate. If you think they’re wrong, you don’t have to have one. I’d rather avoid having to get one, who wouldn’t? But they should be available legally because there are all sorts of situations (rape, incest, women who for whatever reason can’t deal with motherhood or whose birth control failed etc.) where it’d be ethically wrong not to give women the option.
lol@this Hipster Racist guy, with the “50 Shades of Gray” is historical docudrama stuff… that book, from what I’ve read (couldn’t make it past the
Not to TMI you guys, but I’ve been scouring the “manosphere” for the past week because in the year since I moved to a new city, I’ve had 5+ guys approach me and try to immediately 1) insinuate 50 Shades into the conversation to try to feel me out w/r/t bdsm, and 2) start talking about the show Dexter and how much they relate to that character. Eventually, the pattern became so consistent that it finally clicked — maybe this is some kind of routine that’s being suggested on Game blogs or something. This is not happening at kink clubs, this is just in the general population, with me wearing “business casual” clothing.
Woops, lost some post there… meant to say that the from what I’ve read, it’s a very mild sort of spanking and handcuffs stuff, I don’t understand why it’s supposed to be proof that wimmenz are all kink monsters deep down…
@Anadiomene: Well, IF you think abortion is murder, it makes sense that you don’t want anyone to have one for whatever reason. We don’t say about murder that if you’re against it you don’t have to murder anyone yourself, but you still ought to let other people murder someone if they find themselves in a tight spot.
(I should stress that I DON’T think abortion is murder: It’s ridiculous to even suggest so regarding recently fertilized eggs that have nothing in common yet with a thinking feeling human being. It’s not as patently ridiculous to suggest it but about a, say, twelve-weeks-fetus, but as far as we know they’re not conscious until some time around week 25 even if they have bodily reflexes from very early on. No consciousness developed yet=not a person.
But IF we, purely for the sake of argument, accept that it’s murder, yeah, it makes sense that you don’t want anyone to have abortions for whatever reason.)
I assume these are like Jem and the Holograms vs. The Misfits.
I’m kinda hoping the LOTR/Hobbit fans are around today, because my understanding about the female character in the Hobbit is that they took a generic, ungendered elf character from the original book, made her a woman, and then fleshed out the character a bit and made her part of the story. And that it’s sexism in the fandom that makes them assume all elves mentioned in the Hobbit are male, and then of course hurl gendered insults at the female actor (rather than the people responsible for writing her in).
But I could be wrong.
@Anadiomene regarding Fifty Shades: I haven’t read that whole book, just extracts of it and comments on some blog I don’t remember the name of or the address to right now. The blogger started reading it and commenting at length on every chapter, at first to make fun of it, but growing more and more horrified as she went on with the glorification of abuse and boundary-violation. Now, as everyone knows it’s based on Twilight, whereof I have read the first book in its entirety, and that’s really abuse-glorifying as well, so I’m not surprised. It’s all about how it’s okay for a man to be a crazy-jealous-boundary-violating-stalker if he does all that because he luuuuuuuurves you so much, and it’s really important for a super young woman with her entire life in front of her to put up with all this, or she might miss out on true luuuuuuurve and live her entire life lonely and failed. Plus if the women luuuuuurves crazy-jealous-boundary-violating-stalker dude enough, she can totally change him and make him less crazy-jealous-boundary-violating-stalkerish! Great!
So what I gather is that the very kink in Fifty Shades isn’t that edgy, but it’s still about a relationship where the man is dominating the woman and she’s almost completely submissive in the NON-KINK sense of these words.