Categories
all about the menz alpha males evil sexy ladies facepalm fedoras homophobia I am making a joke imaginary backwards land kitties literal nazis men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny nice guys no girls allowed oppressed men playing the victim PUA racism rape culture red pill reddit transphobia

Red Pillers: Hey Ladies! That visceral disgust you feel in our presence means you want us. Bad.

Ladies love men in groups.
Ladies love men in groups.

What do women want? Dudes. In groups. Especially dudes who hate them.

That, in any case, seems to be the conclusion drawn by a blogger who calls himself Hipster Racist, and who seems to be a white supremacist of some kind. Anyway, he’s written a little post about the rise of Reddit’s  Red and Blue Pill Subreddits and how they illustrate the Mannerbund Effect, a theory that helps to explain just why it is that the ladies allegedly like getting up in men’s business so much.

Here’s how HR tells the story of the two subreddits:

Someone created a section of reddit called TheRedPill which is devoted to “game,” seduction and anti-feminism. Essentially, a group of young men comparing notes on their various romantic successes and failures, which for obvious reasons, include a lot of frustration and what some might call misogyny. … Some of these men talk about “gaming” women in the same sense you might talk about training a dog. Gaming bitches, they might even say.

Yeah, some might call that misogyny.

The men’s romantic advice to each other essentially boils down to: women are selfish and incapable of love, so never fall in love, just improve yourself, lift weights, make money, dress better, and the women will come running.

Yeah, some might call that misogyny too.

As if on cue, the women show up and create TheBluePill a section of reddit exclusively focused on mocking, shaming, and attacking TheRedPill with anti-male rhetoric just as critical and harsh and the anti-female rhetoric of TheRedPill.

Now, pretty much none of that is true. TheBluePill is populated by a lot of dudes as well as women and the subreddit is basically an elaborate parody of the Red Pill subreddit, punctuated by occasional serious posts when people there are too astonished by the misogyny to make jokes about it. Take a look. If you can find any sincere anti-male rhetoric within it, posted by a regular commenter and with net upvotes, I’ll literally mail you a dollar.

But what is so fascinating about the dynamic is this: the men exclusively discuss how to improve themselves, while the women exclusively discuss … how the men can improve themselves. Obviously, they have very different views of what “improvement” looks like, the men essentially say “be more macho” while they women essentially say “be less macho.”

Well, not exactly. The advice in The Blue Pill subreddit is really only implicit advice, and it isn’t so much “be less macho” as it is “don’t be a misogynistic, manipulative, rapey asshole who gets validation from a bunch of other misogynistic, manipulative, rapey assholes like those Red Pill dudes on Reddit.”

Anyway, so Mr. Hipster Racist thinks that what all this means is that the Blue Pill ladies want the Red Pill men, and want them bad.

The dynamic plays itself out, over and over again, constantly. A group of men get together – the Mannerbund is formed – and do something. The women then show up, watch the men, and either cheer them, or heckle them.

But when the boys get together, the one thing the girls cannot do is ignore them.

Mr. Racist refers us to the manosphere-famous video of the protests of the Warren Farrell talk at the University of Toronto from last year. He points us to one female protester who became notorious in the manosphere for shouting at one of Farrell’s male fans, declaring him to be a “fucking rape apologist, incest supporting, woman hating, fucking scum.”

To Mr. Racist, only one thing could be driving this much apparent hate: pure animal lust.

Look at the man, look at the woman, and look at how the woman is looking at the man. Look at her eyes.

You could cut that sexual tension with a knife.

No. Just no. Sometimes a “you fucking rape apologist” is just a “you fucking rape apologist.”

So, anyway, someone took the opportunity to post Mr. Racist’s reflections on the Mannerbund Effect to the Red Pill subreddit — well, ok, that “someone” was Mr. Racist himself — where it met with many huzzahs.

My favorite comment of the bunch comes– surprise! —  from Mr. Racist, posting as jack50s; it’s almost Penthouse Lettersesque in its sophomoric eroticism:

mannerbuynd

Later, Mr. Racist wandered into the Blue Pill subreddit, and quickly convinced himself that everyone there, including me, had the hots for him. (To be fair, I did kind of lead him on a little.)

catswatch

Huh. Apparently I’ve been awarded some sort of honorary Women’s Studies Degree from the Dean of Pompous Nazi Blogger University. That will help to ease the sting of rejection a little. A little. At least I have my cats.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

204 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

Why he used the term Männerbund is probably to give an anthropological impression; to make give a fake scienficey. credence to his claims.

Not really a nazi term, although it has been used by them

Der Begriff Männerbund wurde 1902 von dem Volkskundler Heinrich Schurtz geprägt, um die Initiationsrituale in Ostafrika zu beschreiben. Im wilhelminischen Deutschland wurde dieser Begriff von zahlreichen Vertretern der Jugendbewegung aufgegriffen und mit neuem Inhalt gefüllt (besonders von Hans Blüher).

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

“And of course, plan B is designed specifically to flush out recently fertilized eggs that hasn’t attached themselves to the wall of the womb yet” Which many eggs won’t do anyway

And people who call plan B &c an abortion drugare completely wrong, because there is no pregnancy until implantation, and hence there can be no abortion.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
8 years ago

There’s more. He apparently decided that all women are naturally submissive and want to be dominated, and our contempt for him in TBP was us ‘topping from the bottom’ and his creepy twelve year old on crack impression was him flirting: http://hipsterracist.wordpress.com/2013/06/14/female-submission-and-its-enemies-a-response-to-jungle-jain

I think my brain just decided to flee
I can no longer th… the limericks. They do nothing.

My mind weeps.

Marie
Marie
8 years ago

@thekidwiththereplaceablehead

@Jain I love the assfax he pulls on the assertion that all women are submissive. He talked to three women; it are bio-fact!

three whole women? I should talk to three women, it’s a really easy sample size. Though, I, myself, am a woman, so scientifically* this must cancel something out. Lady logic and all that.

*as close as I can use this word when talking about mra experiments?

Kakanian
Kakanian
8 years ago

What exactly is his use of “Männerbund” instead of “Fraternity” is meant to do or mean here? With his usename I can kind of see where he’s coming from, but it makes little sense beyond that.

Malitia
Malitia
8 years ago
Kittehserf
8 years ago

When have MRAs and racists ever bothered about making sense?

/rhetorical question

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

“And of course, plan B is designed specifically to flush out recently fertilized eggs that hasn’t attached themselves to the wall of the womb yet” Which many eggs won’t do anyway

And people who call plan B &c an abortion drugare completely wrong, because there is no pregnancy until implantation, and hence there can be no abortion.

Well… discussing words isn’t particularly interesting IMO. You might say to a plan-B-hater fundie that “look, the medical term ‘pregnancy’ only applies to the state of the body after implantation has occurred, and the term ‘abortion’ means terminating a pregnancy thus defined”, and show them all kinds of medical texts to support that this is actually how the medical community use these words – but the fundie could just reply that BECAUSE they regard all fertilized eggs as full human beings with a full set of moral rights, we OUGHT to start using the word ‘pregnancy’ for the state of the body after the egg is fertilized, even before implantation, and the word ‘abortion’ so that it covers plan-B-use as well. The meaning of certain words aren’t fixed forever; there are many instances of the use of certain words changing over time, and these changes are often connected to changes in morality (like how ‘rape’ has changed it’s meaning, for instance, because sexual morality has changed).

The basic problem here isn’t how fundies use various words, it’s their idea that all fertilized eggs are to count as full human beings with a full set of moral rights.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

sorry to derail but you guys gotta check this out, they’re all enraged about the Hobbit again.

take a look at that long-ass comment by YetAnotherCommenter, which basically amounts too “well yeah the insults are gendered and the actresses was harassed, also with gendered slurs BUT IT’S TOTES NOT SEXIST JUST LAZY. Also SLASHFICTIONZ!!!

Every time the MRM targets something fandom oriented (gaming, comics) their arguments amount to NO GIRLS ALLOWED IN OUR CLUBHOUSE

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1gdz3t/hobbit_fans_pissed_off_at_new_female_character_so/

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

it’s funny, I can easily make a lazy agrument against not including a character that wasn’t in the books without using sexist, genedered slurs. It’d probably go something like:

“hey that character wasn’t in the books, shouldn’t the movie stick as closest to the book as possible? I and many other fans think it should.”

oh and check out this comment…sarcasm perhaps, but I doubt it

[–]IcarusLived -3 points 49 minutes ago
To be fair, Loki did actually get pregnant in the ancient myths. He gave birth to three monsters, among them Fenris.
That said, I hope this actress dies before they can finish filming. Tolkien is rolling over in his fucking grave.
permalinkparent

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

sorry for all my spelling errors too, I haven’t slept O_O

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

Quackers, yeah I heard some dude on radio when the first Hobbit movie came out last year who said, regarding Galadriel, that the movie makers oughtn’t include stuff that wasn’t in the book, that’s stupid, it’s as if they’d included talking fish, there are no talking fish in “the Hobbit” and thus they ought not to be any in the movie.
And I’m like “Uh, how did we get from Galadriel to talking fish?”. It’s not even as if they’ve been wildly diverting from the Tolkien universe as a whole – they’ve mostly managed to stretch out the little book to three whole movies by putting in stuff that’s mentioned in other Tolkien books, such as the white council (of which Galadriel is a member) meeting to discuss the rise of the necromancer. They HAVE expanded the role of Radagast a lot, but I’m personally okay with having him as a comic relief character.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

I’m gonna follow Quackers example and derail a bit, but… recently I feel like I’ve come across tons of articles and books about how you need to COMPROMISE in a relationship and you need to WORK on that relationship of yours and you gotta ACCEPT that it can’t be all sunshine and roses but that you need to put in all this work and problem-solving and conflict-solving and compromise in order to live with someone.

It’s like there are tons of writers out there who think the standard narrative is that two people meet, fall in love, get married and live happily ever after with no effort at all, and it’s important to smash that standard narrative, because it’s unrealistic.

Except that this is pretty much what it was like for me; fell in love with Husband, got married and lived happily ever after, and it’s really no EFFORT living with him.

When I was nineteen to twenty I was in a terrible relationship with a guy which involved loads of compromise and conflict and problem-solving, but I thought it was supposed to be like that, because as a matter of fact, THAT is the standard narrative in our culture today.

I think that people do NOT need to be told that relationships involve all these compromises and conflicts and work work work. What people need to be told is that if your relationship look like that, maybe you should seriously consider whether it’s worth it, or if you’d be happier breaking up.

And I kept writing “people be told”, but I think this is a fairly gendered issue, that these articles and books talking about how all this compromise and problem-solving is a necessary part of a relationship are mainly read by women in hetero relationships.

palmedfire
8 years ago

This is why I am continually grateful to have found this blog and it’s truly magnificent commentariat! I am now going to read everything on TakaWiki and watch copious youtube vids!

Bwahahaha! My work here is done! /disappears in a cloud of feathers and sparkles

GreySky
GreySky
8 years ago

@Dvärghundspossen
Agreed. I can see why you’d perhaps want to put in some extra effort if you have children, but generally speaking, if a relationship feels more like a tedious task than something rewarding, why stay in it?

JustJulia
JustJulia
8 years ago

Oddly, Hipster Racist put a link to Sunshine Mary’s place on his blog yesterday. He is impressed with what she wrote about women having ravishment/rape fantasies b/c they secretly desire to be dominated by men. Sunshine’s blog post can be found at http://www.sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com

Athywren
Athywren
8 years ago

If we accept, purely for the sake of discussion, the ridiculous idea that a recently fertilized egg has moral status, then it does make a certain amount of sense to be against the pill. The common pill is designed to do three things: 1. Prevent ovulation. 2. Prevent sperm from entering the womb, by changing the texture of the fluids at the womb entrance, and 3. changing the texture of the vaginal wall so no fertilized eggs can get stuck there. It’s as safe as it is because it does all three. In SOME cases 1 and 2 will fail but 3 will still protect you, and in these cases you have murdered a precious fertilized egg . (And of course, plan B is designed specifically to flush out recently fertilized eggs that hasn’t attached themselves to the wall of the womb yet, so if recently fertilized egg=person, it follows that plan B kills.)

If that’s your argument against the pill, however, you still ought to be fine with people using condoms. If you argue against condoms merely because they prevent sperm and egg from meeting, then yeah, abstinence should be just as bad.

The argument I was presented with was that all forms of contraception are purest evil because they do “at best” prevent fertilization, and apparently it’s hard to see a distinction between something not starting, and something starting, progressing, and then being stopped. I had some trouble with that last… I mean, there’s a distinction within the sentence itself.

Probably shouldn’t be too quick to assume that this is the usual view though – this was a half-considered response to my pointing out that he’s clearly incapable of reading (in kinder words). Earlier in the conversation, I’d stated that I would really like to see a world without abortion, but since the religious right are so keen on teaching abstinence only education, there will probably always been unwanted pregnancies, but that I’d continue fighting for it nevertheless. There was then some discussion of morality, and he asserted that people like me, who “fight for abortion” have no place discussing morality, at which point I questioned his reading comprehension. So I think his comment was more about injured pride and needing to be right about how evil I am even if he can’t read, than a real desire to see every egg fertilised.

sorry to derail but you guys gotta check this out, they’re all enraged about the Hobbit again.

take a look at that long-ass comment by YetAnotherCommenter, which basically amounts too “well yeah the insults are gendered and the actresses was harassed, also with gendered slurs BUT IT’S TOTES NOT SEXIST JUST LAZY. Also SLASHFICTIONZ!!!

Every time the MRM targets something fandom oriented (gaming, comics) their arguments amount to NO GIRLS ALLOWED IN OUR CLUBHOUSE

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1gdz3t/hobbit_fans_pissed_off_at_new_female_character_so/

You know, I seem to remember there being a white orc in the Hobbit who never really saw any page time in the book… I wonder if they raged about that, too?
Funny thing, though, I’ve been discussing Dr Who recently, and we have the same thing there too:

“[F]rom a writers point of view it would defy logic to have the Doctor anything other than white, male and straight. Changing appearances is one thing, but completely rewriting DNA would be a step too far. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for diversity; Martha Jones was a fabulous hero in her own right – she beat The Master didn’t she. But those regenerations have to be believable.”

Because, like, there has been nothing in the canon that suggests a timelord can change gender in their regenerations. Oh, and regeneration itself? Totally believable. Totally. Feh. It’s not even that I think that the next doctor needs to be female (although I’m hoping for Ellie Kendrick) it’s just that the idea of it is so ridiculous or offensive to some people… why? Blargh. The doctor is a hero because the doctor is heroic (some of the time…) not because he has had a penis until now.

Marie
Marie
8 years ago

@greysky

@Dvärghundspossen
Agreed. I can see why you’d perhaps want to put in some extra effort if you have children, but generally speaking, if a relationship feels more like a tedious task than something rewarding, why stay in it?

Ditto/ thirding.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Athywren: Regarding the doctor and his DNA… um, in order for him to look completely different, DNA has to be rewritten already, since appearance depends a lot on DNA. As you said, it’s complete fantasy to start with.

anadiomene122
anadiomene122
8 years ago

I don’t get the abortion debate. If you think they’re wrong, you don’t have to have one. I’d rather avoid having to get one, who wouldn’t? But they should be available legally because there are all sorts of situations (rape, incest, women who for whatever reason can’t deal with motherhood or whose birth control failed etc.) where it’d be ethically wrong not to give women the option.

lol@this Hipster Racist guy, with the “50 Shades of Gray” is historical docudrama stuff… that book, from what I’ve read (couldn’t make it past the

Not to TMI you guys, but I’ve been scouring the “manosphere” for the past week because in the year since I moved to a new city, I’ve had 5+ guys approach me and try to immediately 1) insinuate 50 Shades into the conversation to try to feel me out w/r/t bdsm, and 2) start talking about the show Dexter and how much they relate to that character. Eventually, the pattern became so consistent that it finally clicked — maybe this is some kind of routine that’s being suggested on Game blogs or something. This is not happening at kink clubs, this is just in the general population, with me wearing “business casual” clothing.

anadiomene122
anadiomene122
8 years ago

Woops, lost some post there… meant to say that the from what I’ve read, it’s a very mild sort of spanking and handcuffs stuff, I don’t understand why it’s supposed to be proof that wimmenz are all kink monsters deep down…

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Anadiomene: Well, IF you think abortion is murder, it makes sense that you don’t want anyone to have one for whatever reason. We don’t say about murder that if you’re against it you don’t have to murder anyone yourself, but you still ought to let other people murder someone if they find themselves in a tight spot.

(I should stress that I DON’T think abortion is murder: It’s ridiculous to even suggest so regarding recently fertilized eggs that have nothing in common yet with a thinking feeling human being. It’s not as patently ridiculous to suggest it but about a, say, twelve-weeks-fetus, but as far as we know they’re not conscious until some time around week 25 even if they have bodily reflexes from very early on. No consciousness developed yet=not a person.
But IF we, purely for the sake of argument, accept that it’s murder, yeah, it makes sense that you don’t want anyone to have abortions for whatever reason.)

katz
8 years ago

Humourously Unrepentant Gold-Diggers

Gold-Diggishness Deniers (their rivals, presumably)

I assume these are like Jem and the Holograms vs. The Misfits.

cloudiah
8 years ago

I’m kinda hoping the LOTR/Hobbit fans are around today, because my understanding about the female character in the Hobbit is that they took a generic, ungendered elf character from the original book, made her a woman, and then fleshed out the character a bit and made her part of the story. And that it’s sexism in the fandom that makes them assume all elves mentioned in the Hobbit are male, and then of course hurl gendered insults at the female actor (rather than the people responsible for writing her in).

But I could be wrong.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Anadiomene regarding Fifty Shades: I haven’t read that whole book, just extracts of it and comments on some blog I don’t remember the name of or the address to right now. The blogger started reading it and commenting at length on every chapter, at first to make fun of it, but growing more and more horrified as she went on with the glorification of abuse and boundary-violation. Now, as everyone knows it’s based on Twilight, whereof I have read the first book in its entirety, and that’s really abuse-glorifying as well, so I’m not surprised. It’s all about how it’s okay for a man to be a crazy-jealous-boundary-violating-stalker if he does all that because he luuuuuuuurves you so much, and it’s really important for a super young woman with her entire life in front of her to put up with all this, or she might miss out on true luuuuuuurve and live her entire life lonely and failed. Plus if the women luuuuuurves crazy-jealous-boundary-violating-stalker dude enough, she can totally change him and make him less crazy-jealous-boundary-violating-stalkerish! Great!

So what I gather is that the very kink in Fifty Shades isn’t that edgy, but it’s still about a relationship where the man is dominating the woman and she’s almost completely submissive in the NON-KINK sense of these words.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Claudiah: I read the Hobbit not that long ago, and from what I remember all the elves appearing there are pretty generic background-elves except the king.

katz
8 years ago

No, Tauriel’s a complete invention.

But come on. Three-quarters of the whole damn series is a complete invention, and if you think she’s what’s ruining the movies, you need to recalibrate your standards.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

see, I can understand nerd rage at making up a character that was never in the books to begin with, but as usual, its the hurling of misogynist insults that tip me off that it’s not really about that, is it?

if they stuck a black elf in there and people started using racist slurs against zir then it’d rightfully be called racist bullshit.

Anyway, I read The Hobbit ages ago and never finished, when I saw the trailer I wondered who she (Tauriel) was and thought she looked cool. I don’t know how to feel about randomly adding in a made up character. Generally I’d be against it if a movie is trying to follow a book but I’m not a hardcore Tolkien fan- meaning I haven’t read the books (though I do own them) I just loved the LOTR trilogy and the first Hobbit movie…so yeah. I’m more of a comics person 😛

It’s just…not really fucking hard to make an argument about these things without it descending into sexist slurs. I’ve been getting more and more frustrated with this shit. MRAs and everyone else tries to hand-wave it away and everyone who speaks out against it is silenced. And why is it such an affront to people that women get representation in entertainment besides porn and chick flicks? We are half the damn population. Yet it’s so controversial to have female characters play an important role in our entertainment.

I think what they don’t realize is what they consider “for men” actually translates to “for people” anything blatantly woman-like is only for women so we should shut up and stick to that.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Because, like, there has been nothing in the canon that suggests a timelord can change gender in their regenerations. Oh, and regeneration itself? Totally believable. Totally. Feh. It’s not even that I think that the next doctor needs to be female (although I’m hoping for Ellie Kendrick) it’s just that the idea of it is so ridiculous or offensive to some people… why? Blargh. The doctor is a hero because the doctor is heroic (some of the time…) not because he has had a penis until now.”

Um, so this is second hand info, but didn’t um, Romana? Regen as a guy? I know 11 said something about a time lord who was sometimes a girl. And skin color? Melody Pond -> River Song.

So yeah, canon totally says this is possible.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Thanks for the correction, katz, it’s been years since I’ve read the book.

Quackers, remember the racist crap that got spewed against the black character in The Hunger Games? Even though she was clearly intended to be black in the book, and all the racist fans just glossed over that and so it became some big betrayal. But at least people did rightly view that as racist BS (or at least decent people did).

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

The man is making a 9 hr saga out of a 300 page book, and people are PROTESTING the addition of new characters?!!! Do they WANT 9 hrs made out of just the source material?!!

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

So what do those fundies think about frozen fertilized eggs? That they must be implanted (in whom)? Or do they think it will sound too ridiculous in public, so they are tactically shutting up about it?

anadiomene122
anadiomene122
8 years ago

There’s enough gray area with abortion that I just can’t imagine thinking that it’s ok for a government to ban it. Especially not in a country where this happens: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Jury-acquits-escort-shooter-4581027.php

cloudiah
8 years ago

I made the mistake of reading the r/mr thread about The Hobbit. Someone is arguing that the makers shouldn’t be putting female characters in there because it was a male-targeted movie based on a male-targeted book. There is so much wrong with that I can’t even…

I can’t link or cut and paste because I’m on my tablet (well, really, because I’m too lazy to do the workarounds that would allow me to link/cut and paste while I’m on my tablet), but it’s one of the top comments and it’s a giant wall of text.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Same dude also admits that the actress was the recipient of a lot of gendered insults, but then wonders why anyone would call that sexism.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

So what do those fundies think about frozen fertilized eggs? That they must be implanted (in whom)? Or do they think it will sound too ridiculous in public, so they are tactically shutting up about it?

AFAIK they’re against IVF precisely for the reason that it results in fertilized eggs that are just gonna “die”.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

“AFAIK they’re against IVF precisely for the reason that it results in fertilized eggs that are just gonna “die”.”
I ought to have guessed that. But have they made any stament abount the fertilized eggs that already exist?

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

Seriously, the Hunger Games? Everything is told from the main character’s POV, and she clearly hasn’t seen black people before and don’t have the racial vocabulary, but she describes the people of a certain district and the girl she befriends as having black hair and brown skin. So, clearly they’re black people. If you can’t stand the main character befriending a black girl to the extent that you interpret “brown skin” as she and everyone in her district having super-deep tans, and then go “WHY DID THEY MAKE HER BLACK IN THE MOVIE?” when the movie comes out – yeah, then you’re pretty fucking racist.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Talacaris: IDK – I guess they might be smart enough publicity-wise to realize that it’s easier to get some portion of the public to sympathize with your cause if you focus more on Da Evol Slutty Slutz having abortions than proper married couples who try their best to have a baby in order to complete their marital bliss.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

@Cloudiah

Yeah I do remember that regarding The Hunger Games and wish I didn’t. People are so…ugh.

Giant wall of text person is the one I was mentioning too, “YetAnotherCommenter” is their username. I love how they bring up My Little Pony FIM as an example when the creators have acknowledged the bronies numerous times and even put things in the show as a nod to then. Example:

Why does any specific film need to be gender-inclusive? We don’t see people signing petitions to make a male main character in the next season of My Little Pony. Why? Because it is a show targeted towards young girls (in spite of its male periphery demographic). So why does a male-targeted film of a male-targeted piece of literature written many years ago need to have more female characters? Sure, there’s a female periphery demographic, but they’re spending so much time pumping out Dwarven bro-cest that they probably don’t really want any more women in the film in the first place!

well I can use the same argument as you, dumbass. Bronies don’t sign petitions to include male characteres because a good chunk of them are drawing pony porn.

Although I have been told that some of them want the ponies to have boyfriends. How about fuck off. Its not even including male characters for story purpose or to appeal to a male demographic, no, its so some of those bronies can live through them or some shit. And women are the ones who supposedly want romantic relationships in everything.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

@Shadow

see…that is a good point that I haven’t considered. This movie is being drawn out so long, how do we know she and Legolas (who is also not supposed to be in it) are there for plot reasons rather than the dastardly feminist ploy to include FEMALES IN MOVIES!!! oh the HORROR.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

*are NOT there for plot reasons, rather.

auggziliary
auggziliary
8 years ago

Actually there are many brownies who want more male characters. They did cater to them by adding more male characters.
This is getting old.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

When I was a kid I read the John Carter series (space fantasy about a man who’s mysteriously teleported to ancient Mars). I thought it was fun and exciting, but you couldn’t exactly identify with this princess of his, who was constantly getting kidnapped by bad guys and then rescued by John. A few years ago Disney made a movie out of the first book. They made the princess a scientist who had figured out how the bad guy’s weapon functioned, and that’s why the bad guys were after her. She got to fight too, pretty competently, although at the end of the day she was rescued by John just as in the books.

There were probably misogynists across the globe who’d also read these books as kids and were pissed off by those changes to the princess, but to me, it just made the movie more enjoyable. I mean, it’s a silly movie, based on a silly original story, so you still have to shut down a portion of your brain to enjoy it, but with a less traditional damsel in distress at least I don’t have to put feminism on hold while watching. I’m all for making these kind of changes when filming a book, at least if you’ve already made the decision not to follow the book to the letter (which movies rarely do anyway).

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

so the bronies got what they wanted, but when women want more female characters and ones that are actually good, they get shut down or harassed by internet misogynists and MRAs.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
8 years ago

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

@Dvärghundspossen

its amazing to me how so many misogynists…well not even just misogynist people…people overall are so against updating means of storytelling, especially to keep up with the times. Just because something is a trope, doesn’t mean we have to use it all the time. It’s actually quite anti-creativity. Ever heard of doing something different for a change? People who defend damsel crap just defend the status quo and the same bland shit over and over again. There is no shortage of stories with damsels in distress, a few with women actually doing important shit isn’t gonna kill you.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

and for the record I don’t mind all damsel stories, I do loves me some old school Disney and Super Mario Bros, but it was a product of it’s time (well moreso the Disney films) but, I like to see things reflect current and more realistic gender roles. There’s only so much of simpering, helpless, princesses I can take >_>

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

I just remembered that updating movies is nothing new: The book “Pippi Longstocking in the South Seas” was written in 1948, and is about how our heroine finds out that her (white, Swedish) father, presumed dead, is actually alive and well – after a ship he was on sunk, he ended up on a southern island where he was quickly made king of all the “negros” living there. And he’s seriously referred to as “negro king”.

When this book was made into a movie in 1970 he was a “pirate king” instead, commanding a fleet of pirates rather than an island full of worshipping “negros”.

AFAIK, back in 1970 there wasn’t tons of people complaining about how political correctness had run rampant etc etc because of the changes from book to movie.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

their dudebronerd rage is the epitome of first world problems, as are those who whine about political correctness because they can no longer pretend minorities dont exist or be assholes to them.

at least the seemingly unimportant complaint that most female characters are weak and useless is rooted in fact that women were seen as weak and useless throughout history and thus represented as such in entertainment.