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a woman is always to blame dozens of upvotes evil women facepalm grandiosity imaginary oppression literal nazis matriarchy men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA oppressed men playing the victim reddit shit that never happened straw feminists whaaaaa? woman's suffrage

Men’s Rights Redditor: “By giving women the right to vote without being subject to conscription, feminism has brought on wars, killing, concentration camps, starvations and endless cruelties.”

Evil women voting for starvation.
Evil womens voting for starvations.

So over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, the regulars are engaging in a bit of self-reflection. Well, that may be a bit of a generous description on my part. They’re discussing the question “Are we fanatics?” Not surprisingly, they conclude that they aren’t.

Yet this is the most upvoted comment in the thread:

linearthink

Those of you who have studied twentieth century history may have remembered Lady Hitler’s war on the Jews, the Romani people, and homosexuals; the Great Feminist Purges of Lady Stalin; the Cultural Revolution of Lady Mao. (Oh, wait, there actually was a Madame Mao, and she was a pretty evil gal, though she owed her power largely to her husband and was ousted shortly after his death.)

Moving on from all that war and starvation stuff, let’s return to that first sentence, since MRAs are so fond of blaming eeevil feminists for the draft.

The link in that sentence goes to a discussion of an organization called The Order of the White Feather. Take it away, Wikipedia:

In August 1914, at the start of the First World War, Admiral Charles Fitzgerald founded the Order of the White Feather with support from the prominent author Mrs Humphrey Ward. The organization aimed to shame men into enlisting in the British Army by persuading women to present them with a white feather if they were not wearing a uniform.

It’s worth pointing out that at the start of WWI, people of all political stripes and in all the countries involved were pretty gung-ho for the war. Even the big socialist parties of the day quickly forgot their pledges of international solidarity in favor of supporting their national war efforts.

So where do the evil feminists come in? Well, a couple of the most famous British suffragettes signed onto the White Feather crusade:  Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst. And yes, they supported compulsory national service — though they supported it for both men and women: men would go to war, while women would be required to work in factories.

Of course, the Order of the White Feather didn’t represent all feminists at the time. Indeed, it didn’t even represent all the Pankhursts: Christabel’s sisters Sylvia and Adela were pacifists.

Even aside from all that blather about feminists being responsible for wars and concentration camps, it’s highly misleading to present the story of the Order of the White Feather as “proof” that feminists are warmongering all-male-draft-lovers. As a quick visit to Google will demonstrate, feminism has a long history of antiwar activism, dating back to the 19th century — when feminists first organized Mother’s Day as a protest of war.

But, hey, MRAs, if you want to invent your own mythological version of history, knock yourself out. You only make yourselves look like the fanatics you are.

Thanks to this thread in the AgainstMensRights Subreddit for pointing me to this most edifying discussion.

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Karin (@Karraflarra)
8 years ago

The hidden part of history is that women and their mighty sexual power MADE Hitler, Mao, Stalin and all those lovely guys do all the horrible things they did, because we all know only alphas get laid. And nothing says alpha like throwing people in the Gulag for making fun of Papa Stalin’s ‘tache!

pineapplecookies
pineapplecookies
8 years ago

As a historian, I don’t know if I want to laugh or cry after reading this…

carnation
carnation
8 years ago

David, just a suggestion, but an MRA history of the world could be fascinating, and I can think of no better author than your good self.

A mixture of evo-psych, the debunking of the commonly accepted causes of war, replaced with the real cause (evil ladies demanding useless things). Then, of course, the twin catastrophes of women being allowed to vote and take charge of their own sex lives.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Gloria Steinem and the C1A started the Vietnam War. What, you can’t handle the truth, sheeeeeeple?

The “Are we fanatics?” question of course made me think of this:

cloudiah
8 years ago

David, just a suggestion, but an MRA history of the world could be fascinating, and I can think of no better author than your good self.

An MRA history of the world would be to laugh forever. Maybe we can crowdsource the research, since we have so many historians here.

Linden
Linden
8 years ago

Women didn’t have the vote until 1920 in the U.S., or until 1918 in England and Germany, or until 1944 in France, or until 1925 in Italy, or until 1919 in Austria. How does that square with WWI, which was from 1914-1918? Oh, right — it doesn’t.

MaudeLL
8 years ago

Yes! Countries without feminism have been the most peaceful states with the highest quality of life for all ever since the 15th century (when the evil war manifesto “city of ladies” was written by a bloodthirsty protofeminist).
[Souce: an MRA’s ass]

pineapplecookies
pineapplecookies
8 years ago

I need the MRA History of the world immediately. That’s a brilliant idea.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

Wow. They can’t even actually use real history, like Prohibition or the temperance movement, which feminism was also a big part of back in the day. (Also abolitionism, though racism was a huge problem.) They have to use imaginary history.

Out queer folks, until recently, weren’t conscriptable either. (And trans folks still aren’t.) Obviously, this means people like me are CONTROLLING THE WORLD! AHAHAHAHA!

kamilla1960
kamilla1960
8 years ago

Mrs. Stalin, a highly cultured and intelligent woman, committed suicide. Stalin blamed her death on “romance novels.”

theladyzombie
8 years ago

@carnation

I agree, and it would only take David less than 5 minutes to write. It would go a little like this –

“MRA History of the World
If anything bad happened, it was all the women’s fault.
The End”

Falconer
8 years ago

@LBT: Pfft. It’s obviously my wee babies in charge of the world. They’re like drill sergeants. When they shout, everybody hops to, lickety-split.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I see the OP went to the NWO School of International Relations (Bitches Ain’t Shit, But They Start Wars).

Falconer
8 years ago

@Linden: To be fair, I think France might have given women the vote earlier than 1944 if it weren’t for the whole occupied thing.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

feminism has brought on wars, killing, concentration camps, starvations and endless cruelties, all made possible by a privileged class (women) who have the power to control the government without consequence to themselves.

I thought famines were caused by droughts, flooding, plant diseases, political instability, wars, colonialism, poverty, and corruption. I thought wars were caused by complicated geopolitical alliances along with competition for limited land and resources. But apparently, none of that is true. It’s all because women vote.

becausescience
becausescience
8 years ago

“Facts Are For Manginas” – International “mens’ rights activists” slogan.

Bonelady
Bonelady
8 years ago

Of course, this does not explain any war which took place before 1918… And why, if these women control government, has there never been a woman president or vice president? And why, for pity’s sake, are we having all this controversy about control of women’s bodies? If we control the government, why aren’t we suppressing those anti-abortion/anti-contraception folks? Do these guys actually LISTEN to themselves? Can any of them say “logic”?

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

I would like to invite any MRAs reading this to study any of the following topics:

World War One
The Spanish-American War
The US occupation of the Philippines
The Indian Wars
The US Civil War
The Mexican-American War
The Seminole Wars
Slavery in the US
History (any (at all (seriously, just any history)))

Aaliyah
8 years ago

“And why, if these women control government, has there never been a woman president or vice president?”

Because ladybrains. Also, manbrains are perfect.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

This is also ridiculous because most countries don’t get to have a countrywide vote on whether or not the country goes to war. Sure, in the US, congress does (usually, *grumble secret drone war grumble*) but most of our congress is and always has been made up of men voting on these wars (again, usually).

Trying to cite women’s suffrage as the beginning of a bunch of wars and horrors because women got the right to vote, implies that women were voting to go to war. Which is not only stupid, but demonstrative of a willful ignorance of how shit actually happens. I mean, just looking at current events demonstrates this, or does this dipshit really think that women are voting right now to impose a 20 week abortion ban on all people with uteri?

TL;DR not only do these guys apparently not know history, they also seem to have a problem with understanding the basics of modern politics.

cloudiah
8 years ago

These concepts were all taken from a very cursory skim through the Men’s Rights subreddit:

Prehistory by MRAs

If you look at the actual hunter gatherer societies that remain in the world they are all extremely Patriarchal (in the original sense of the world in that the Father is the head of the family unit). This is because societies like that tend to be extremely violent. Men die in hunts and raids against other tribes and women only die of old age (kind of like now where only men die in war) outnumber men in the actual tribe. This leads naturally to polygamy and women doing most of raising of children and all of the camp chores, when they’re not busy foraging for berries and thereby evolving a love for lipstick and sweets. Of course, prehistoric males would also have been involved in the development of their offspring. Play and nurturing and teaching. We see the same behavior in dogs and cats, so no study is needed for that. But given the rivalries of the time, the constant need to protect territory and protect one’s tribe, the main male role would have been defence and provision. Don’t need a study for that either.

To talk about science for a minute, “biologically” men and women ARE different! Why you ask? Because they are two different genders (or sex) (I don’t know the difference don’t ask me to Google it). Evolution has produced all kinds of differences between the sexes. On top of the differences in genitalia, there is also distinct neural circuitry differences. Ladybrains are literally different from manbrains. Different biochemistries, and also hormones, skeletal structure etc. It’s just science, and I wish females weren’t so defensive about it. And it is all a result of adaption to our environment, culture and evolution from millions of years from prehistory to today. Different brain structures have a proven effect on cognitive ability, which is why men evolved to have more ambition. Men know they need worldly success and riches (bigger spears! more mammoth flesh!) to get a sex or marriage partner. Women know they just need to complain about things. If men offer them a solution, or a logical, proven explanation, women have evolved to call you an apologist and send you on your way. Oh, and also beware of rationality. Women evolved not to like that.

So anyway, once a bunch of people who think like that get together, they form a Crowd and find someone to blame for their problems — spirits, tribal leaders, or later on, Kings, the Government, religion, Men, Whites, etc. — and then go about destroying that group.
Once they have, however, it doesn’t solve their problems. “New boss, same as the old boss.” But again, that is what females like anyway, having an opportunity to complain. This is why they would manipulate the men sexually, and then say “Go hunt more mammoth, I’m sick of eating berries all day!” or “I know I told you that if you killed Og it would make me happy, but now that Og’s dead I’ve realized it’s really Gorp that is making me unhappy. Kill him!” And so on, and so on, which is how we have history.

Oh also, the reality is that there have been slave classes throughout history that occupied the overt positions of power while still being slaves. Certain psychological pressures could be applied to the slaves in order to turn them into the kind of slaves that could be trusted with power, even over their actual masters (who pretend to be the real slaves). They were scarred with shame while being taught to take their sense of belonging from their actual masters. This is how prehistoric females created a system of shadow power governed by shame and belonging. The class that is shamed–the (male) slave class–is constantly trying to earn a sense of belonging from the class that is seen to have innate value–the (female) master class–and the slave class earns that belonging through labor and warfare. This is how women have the ultimate power under patriarchy.

Probably most people understand this. But strangely the overly academic theories of feminism and their adherents totally miss this.

augochlorella
8 years ago

Cloudiah, I applaud you.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
8 years ago

In August 1914, at the start of the First World War, Admiral Charles Fitzgerald founded the Order of the White Feather with support from the prominent author Mrs Humphrey Ward. The organization aimed to shame men into enlisting in the British Army by persuading women to present them with a white feather if they were not wearing a uniform.

Clearly women will go to great lengths to conceal their treachery, even making up an organization led and founded by men to “persuade” them to do what they were obvz gonna do anyway!

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

The American Revolutionary War according to MRA’s

In the 1700s, the colonists were happy and peaceful to everyone. Some feminists and politically correct people of color whined, but they were just wanting entitlements paid for by STEM majors’ taxes. Anyway, King George told the colonists, “Hey, you guys need to man up and pay taxes!”. The colonists said, “Fuck that. I’m going my own way. I won’t pay taxes so that feminists in Europe can buy fancy dresses and get their hair cut like Victoria Beckham!”

So they declared war on the white knights in England. The wimminz kept saying, “Be a man and go to Valley Forge with George Washington!” So the blue pillers fell for their lies hook, line, and sinker. A whole bunch of men died in battle while women laughed, ate bon bons, and sewed American flags. Molly Picher offered water to the weary soldiers, because she was a FeMRA. So the colonists won no thanks to the women, and all the white dudes lived happily ever after, except for that blue pill Kool Aid drinking King George.

Aaliyah
8 years ago

20th Century according to MRAs

ANDREA DWORKIN SAID ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS and that’s why we can’t have nice things.

cloudiah
8 years ago

thebionicmommy & Aaliyah have the best histories.

onnastik
onnastik
8 years ago

Wait, so… this Order was founded by a man. And it used social pressure to get men to enlist, rather than actually forcing them to do so.

How does this mean ANY of the things they’re trying to make it mean?!

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

The War of 1812 according to MRA’s

It all started because Josephine was using Napolean and his army to commit violence by proxy and cause wars in Europe. The feminists in the US made a big deal about it, though, so the British empire reluctantly set up trade restrictions for US. Then the feminists taunted, “You’re not going to let them treat us that way are you?” to the men. The men didn’t care. They didn’t need trade to thrive. It was the women demanding European perfumes and televisions that caused the trouble. So the blue pill men declared war on the men in England, even though they should have joined together to declare war on misandry.

The women in Canada then said, “Oh yeah? I bet you American men aren’t man enough to come invade our country!”. That was their way of spitting on the Canadian men who were too beta for them. The US men said, “Hey, let’s invade because we are alpha and those women want us”, but they lost because Canadian men took the RED PILL.

Andrew Jackson did something in New Orleans, too. Something to do with not firing their muskets till they looked them in the eyes. And the British had to run through the bushes where a rabbit couldn’t go, on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico. And it was all women’s fault, for voting too much.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

cloudiah, I put your prehistory lessons at The Manboobz Greatest Hits Hall of Fame

Ginny
Ginny
8 years ago

Actually Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst abused the fact women couldn’t go to war and criticized men for not being manly enough to go, in full acceptance that they’ll never be required to go themselves.

Aaliyah
8 years ago

[CN: sexual assault]

Occupy Wall Street according to MRAs

Just a bunch of losers who were trying to push forward their Marxist Agenda. Also, the female protesters were there mainly because they were protesting against the state’s reluctance to bend to their entitlement-infested whims. The men, however, are all honest, hard-working people who were cheated by Wall Street criminals.

Also, those ladies really should have shut up about the sexual assault that happened to many of the female protestors. If they didn’t want to get raped, they shouldn’t have gone forward to protest because it’s entirely unreasonable to expect people to not rape women during protests.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Okay, okay, I’m gonna really sink to the depths, here. If I don’t make it back, speak well of me:

The U.S. Civil War: A MRA TruFax History

The roots of the Civil War lie in women’s ambitions. You see, in the South, Southern Belles like Scarlett O’Hara demanded the right to live on plantations, which required slaves to operate. So, in order to provide that lifestyle a bunch of beta men captured some omega men (who just happened to all be Black or Indian by this time, because even beta white men have some conscience, and they figured they could at least ennoble some savages while subjugating themselves before their women).

Meanwhile, up North, other women were all upset that they couldn’t live on plantations, too. Since there weren’t any cotton fields up North, they decided to become abolitionists so they could free the slaves (mainly because they wanted to add black men to their cock carousels–you know why, right?). So their beta men, led by Abraham Lincoln, started working to take away the southern beta men’s slaves.

Well, one thing led to another, and war was declared. It’s also noteworthy that this is the first time that the U.S. (here meaning the unions) used conscription to make alpha men fight (since they knew the betas weren’t gonna do a very good job of it). This proves that Abe was a beta.

John Wilkes Boothe was just a misunderstood early MRA who was trying to break the growing feminist hold on the country, but the betas, answering the demands of their feminist overseers, made sure to kill him.

****

Okay, I need to shower. In lye.

Andrew Johnston
8 years ago

History according to MRAs? Oh, I’m definitely in on this. It’s probably worth noting, though, that real-world China has a long history of blaming everything on women – particularly among imperial-era Buddhists, pretty much the MGTOWs of their day.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Aaliyah, did you know that an MRA has already written the definitive work about Occupy Wall Street?

girlofthegaps
girlofthegaps
8 years ago

Y’know, I feel like these histories, in order to be true to the source, need more Incomprehensively capitalized Words and perhaps also a nice side dish of Word Salad.

But then I’m probably just nitpicking because my delicate ladybrain can’t handle the clear and Ultimate perfection and unDeniability of MRA history.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

It’s kind of funny that they picked the White Feather campaign to focus on as proof of their theory given the timing. It would be much easier to spin the issue of women and voting as “see, allowing women to vote stops war”, given that the war ended in November 1918 (the end of the year that women over 30 got the vote in the UK).

(For those who’re reading along and whose reading comprehension is poor – most MRAs, in other words – this is not what actually stopped the war, nor is at a claim that such was the case.)

Also, if we’re going to play “make vague allusions to history and pretend they prove that one gender is evil”! How many women were involved in drafting the Treaty of Versailles? Because the flaws in that treaty were a part of why WW2 happened.

Aaliyah
8 years ago

@cloudiah

Nope, I didn’t know. It certainly looks like a miserable pile of awfulness, though.

(Cookies to anyone who gets the reference.)

Yes, girlofthegaps, I completely forgot those Essential things.

The Vietnam War according to MRAs

Not a Day went by without the Grandiloquent musings of feminists projected unto the whole world because of their Vain and Selfish Modi Operandi. In accordance with the A Priori stigmatization of male agency, they savagely advocated for the murder of millions of Men. And they did such by dictating that all men enlist in the army and Fight in Vietnam. Upon a white fluffy sofa the Feminists sat, drinking their Wine cup of Female Entitlement as they watched Mankind kill each other once more. “After all,” they said, “All men are rapist abuser scumbags anyway.” Such was a tragic Instance of Institutionalizes Female Supremacy.

Aaliyah
8 years ago

…That’s hard for even me to decipher.

dustydeste
dustydeste
8 years ago

Oh my god, I didn’t think anyone would take me up on that one, but I have to say that I am completely blown away.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

The Crisis of the Late Middle Ages according to MRA’s

In the 1300’s, medieval Europe suffered several demographic disasters caused by feminism. In 1315, feminists had burned too many scented fucking candles, and this caused the environment to change dramatically, as the medieval warming period ended and the little ice age began. So those wimminz and their overconsumption made Europe too cold, and the crops failed. About 10 million brave men died in the famine that resulted, while women got to eat everything because they are selfish.

Then things got worse in the 1340’s. The famine had weakened people’s resistance to disease, and they were vulnerable. The women didn’t care, though, and they kept pet rats and allowed the fleas to bite everyone. That’s what caused the plague.

But the feminists couldn’t leave well enough alone, so they forced France and England to have the 100 Years War. Edward III of England and Philip VI of France were supposedly behind the war, but they only had wars to impress HB 10 women. But kings, listen up, declaring war on each other to impress women is a beta move.

This proves that the Middle Ages were way too gynocentric.

Andrew Johnston
8 years ago

An MRA’s History of China (Prehistory – Han Dynasty)

The Middle Kingdom has a long history of conflict and evolution. The history is often described as a cycle – women ruin the nation, men pull it back from the brink, then they become complacent and ruin it again. Of course, the feminist-influenced historians won’t tell you this, but there’s really no other conclusion to be reached.

It all started thousands of years ago, with the Xia people. They had lived in peace with their neighbors for many years, until the arrival of the Shang emperor. This poor man had been enslaved to the pussy of Da Ji, an evil sorceress and Asia’s first feminist. First, she ordered the emperor to wipe out the Xia. Once that was done, she forced him to participate in bizarrely grand acts of debauchery. Does anyone honestly think he enjoyed building that lake of rice wine? No, sir.

Eventually, the people wised up to their matriarchal oppressor, and overthrew their king, founding the Zhou Dynasty. This period saw many innovations in bronze- and iron-working, as well as a flourishing of the arts. All of this was because they learned from their mistakes and kept their women in check. This doesn’t explicitly appear in the historical records, but you must keep in mind that a good deal of early dynastic history was recorded by Sima Qian, a eunuch – the truest of all manginas. Therefore, we must glean information from between the lines.

The Zhou Dynasty was followed by the Qin and Han Dynasties, and it is here that we start to see the development of the matriarchal systems that continue to haunt us to this day. We see the birth of the bureaucratic system – the same bureaucracy abused by woman to steal money from the men they’ve spermjacked. There is the rise of standardization, used by feminists to force men to follow rules that deny them their manhood. Of course, we cannot overlook the feminist Qin Shi Huang’s effort to wipe out Confucianism and, thus, one of man’s greatest contributions to philosophy. History does not note if he planned to replace these great works with the writings of Andrea Dworkin, but it is a fair assumption.

dustydeste
dustydeste
8 years ago

Huh, how odd. Well apparently my nym has changed from the one I first started posting here under to the one I’m registered as with WordPress with no input from me… At least my icon’s the same I guess?

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Argh! It’s the Big Book of Learnin’ on steroids!

AK
AK
8 years ago

I’ve had this “but you don’t support women being drafted!” thing thrown in my face when I’m talking about feminism. And I’ve gotta say, I don’t support women being drafted.

Because, you know, I DON’T SUPPORT THE DRAFT. FOR ANYONE. Somehow, it seems like a lot of anti-feminists don’t get that. Of course I’m not going to agitate towards expanding the draft to include women; I’m working to get rid of it altogether (in other words, make it so that men aren’t drafted either). It would be rather counterproductive to ask Congress to include women, now, wouldn’t it?

If I thought the draft was a good thing, I would support women being included in it. But I don’t support anyone being forced to go to war, so I don’t.

Somehow, the people who use the draft as an anti-feminist argument never seem to be able to wrap their heads around that. It really isn’t that complicated, though.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

Trying to figure out if linearThinker is for women being subject to the draft, or for women losing the right to vote. Either way, though, he’s hoping things get worse for women, because that’s what advocating for the rights of men is all about.

(Psst LT did you ever consider that we could abolish the draft entirely?)

Malte
8 years ago

@thebionicmommy: that made me weep tears of joy. Not just because no MRA has ever heard of the crisis of the fourteenth century, but because I’m doing a PhD in medieval studies (albeit early medieval). Wonderful.

Oh, I guess that’s me delurked.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Viscaria – probably both.

Aaliyah
8 years ago

Welcome Malte! ^_^ Here’s your welcome package.

(I finally got to do that to someone – yay!)

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Malte, hi, and have one Manboobz Complimentary Welcome Package!

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Ninjaed on a welcome pagkage, is that a first? 😀

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