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John the Other: Feminists who oppose rape memes on Facebook are violence-promoting fascists, and you are too! Probably.

Typical feminazis! Oh, wait.
Typical feminazis! Oh, wait.

The MRA hissy fit over Facebook continues. Over on A Voice for (Human) Men, our old friend John “The Other” Hembling offers up his take on the whole controversy, which has roused the usually torpid MRAs to “activism,” and somehow manages to be even more overheated and incoherent than even Paul Elam before him — and at times nearly as ponderous as the legendarily ponderous Fidelbogen as well.

His argument, if it can be called that, is as follows: by demanding that Facebook remove violent images of rape and abuse posted as “jokes,” the coalition of feminists who recently got Facebook to agree to ban violently misogynistic images are therefore endorsing what Hembling has decided is the “strongest signifier of fascism” — censorship.

Now, censorship is not actually the “strongest signifier” of fascism, merely one of many ingredients in the fascist souffle — alongside such things as, you know, authoritarian rule under a powerful dictator, nationalism, racism, etc. (Also they tend to have a thing about uniforms.)

And Facebook’s removal of rape “meme” pictures and the like is not exactly akin to a one-party dictatorship taking over the media and orchestrating massive book burnings. (Heck, I’m not exactly sure what exactly is supposed to make Facebook’s “censorship” any different from A Voice for Men’s recent announcement that it was clamping down on comments that Paul Elam thinks are too “distracting.”)

But even setting all this aside, Hembling’s charges against “Laura Bates, Soraya Chemaly, Jaclyn Friedman, and every their [sic] signatory to their open letter” don’t make a lot of sense. Here’s his grand summing-up of his would-be indictment:

It is a letter calling on the largest social networking site in the world to institute a program of demographically selective censorship; to institute the practice that is the strongest signifier of fascism.

Bates, Chemaly, and Friedman are not merely endorsing violence against those most impacted by it.

Um, how exactly does asking Facebook to take down pictures depicting violence make someone a proponent of violence?

Hembling doesn’t bother to explain this, and blathers on ahead to his melodramatic conclusion:

They are not merely ignorant or indifferent to the foundational nature of free speech to the establishment of all other human rights. They are not merely content to propagate false, fraudulent models of domestic violence which continue the conditions and causes of domestic violence. They are not simply adherents of an ideology of hatred and violence, wrapping itself in the increasingly transparent veneer of false and pious humanism.

Dude, you’re sounding like a stuck record here. You’ve already accused them of promoting hatred and violence — heck, you accused them of promoting violence at the start of this very paragraph!

Hembling — recently hired on to a paid position as AVFM’s Editor in Chief — desperately needs an editor himself. (Not to mention a proofreader.)

Laura Bates, Soraya Chemaly, Jaclyn Friedman are successfully promoting the signifying feature of fascism. They are fascists, and if you support their cause, that of censorship, you may be a fascist as well.

*looks at self*

No, I’m good. Pretty sure I’m not a fascist.

Hembling ends with a surreal:

Thank you for your kind attention.

Dear readers: let me just ask you to ponder the question I find myself pondering every time I read something by Mr. Hembling: Can there really anyone who reads posts like this from him and says to themself, “this makes sense!” Because his posts all seem like histrionic grandstanding to me, filled with startling leaps of illogic I think would be even too much for dedicated MRAs to make.

I can only imagine that Hembling’s MRA fans really only pay attention to the invective, and don’t bother with the (lack of ) logic, and that for them this whole post basically comes down to: feminists are fascists, feminists support violence, feminists hate men, these three ladies are bad.

They certainly aren’t checking his facts — indeed, Hembling’s piece includes numbered footnotes in the text, but he left out the actual footnotes, and links, that were supposed to run at the end of the piece, as is AVFM custom; his post has been up for several days, and no one there seeems to have even noticed the missing footnotes.

Also, Mr. Hembling, if you’re reading this, here’s a little PROTIP for you:  if you want to pretend that you guys are, you know, actually against violence, you might want to think about removing that terrorist manifesto from your “activism” section — you know, the one that calls on MRAs to literally firebomb courthouses and police stations. Not really good PR for an alleged “human rights” movement, that!

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Marie
11 years ago

@Ostrijj

Hello and welcome 😀 Sorry to hear about your brother 🙁

Maude LL
Maude LL
11 years ago

Trotsky? Ouch! Not sure about the “dictator” part he was into (true we’ll never know how he would have ruled had he beat Lenin, but his political writings are pretty telling IMO).

Oh noes! What will we do about the hivemind if we disagree politically! 😉

freemage
11 years ago

Ostrijj: Welcome! Someone should be by with your welcome package shortly; until then, thanks for the streetmogs link–I’ve been there on occasion, but it’s nice to get a reminder.

girlofthegaps
girlofthegaps
11 years ago

@Ostrijj

Yes. What you said.

Also your brother should hang out with my brother and they can be assbutts together.

theladyzombie
theladyzombie
11 years ago

So – campaigning to have Facebook remove images that support and condone violence against women, is an act of violence itself. Ooooookay.

You know, I’m getting sick of these cries of “FREEZE PEACH!” and “B-B-BUT CENSORSHIP” when anyone objects to the various forms of hate speech floating around on the interbutts.

I’m going to assume these couch warriors of Libertarianism would object equally to the closing of a Facebook group called “Kick A Random Dude In The Nutsack For No Reason Other Than They’re Dudes” as they are over the removal of rape memes. Right? RIGHT? *crickets* Hey, I thought we were all about free speech!

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

More Welcome Packages!! Hi Ostrijj (did I spell that right, I can’t really tell i from j on here, sorry!)

girlofthegaps
girlofthegaps
11 years ago

@theladyzombie

Nah, frozen peaches are only for MANLY DUDE MEN because rights aren’t for ladies! Like votes and sandwiches, those are only for MEN MEN MANLY MEN. Besides, ladies have their own peaches AMIRITE

/sarcasm

Marie
11 years ago

@Girlofthegaps

Also your brother should hang out with my brother and they can be assbutts together.

🙁 Boo for jerk brothers. Now I’m feeling really lucky that mine is nice…

theladyzombie
theladyzombie
11 years ago

Girlofthegaps – yeah, I forgot. For ladies to have rights, sammiches, and votes, they actually have to be human and as any member of the Manosphere worth his or her salt can tell you, women aren’t human. Not really.

Bob Goblin
Bob Goblin
11 years ago

Ostrijj has it right. Most cis white straight men go through life never having been forced into silence, and with an expectation of being heard. It prevents us (often) from being able to fully empathize with the oppressed.

But some of us try to take being called on it as a learning experience rather than an affront to our sacred boners.

Welcome, ostrijj! 🙂

katz
11 years ago

So – campaigning to have Facebook remove images that support and condone violence against women, is an act of violence itself. Ooooookay.

From the people who brought you “by getting raped, you are raping the rapist because he wouldn’t have raped you if he’d known it was rape.”

Dvärghundspossen
11 years ago

@ostriij:

My brother is a self defined socialist who constantly says it’s ok for him to say sexist, racist and ableist slurs because of free speech. I get so panicky when talking with him about these things that I can’t coherently argue back, unless in email, and even then, he never seems to consider my views. In all other respects, he is a ok person, but in these things, oh dear.

Legal=/=morally right.

BabyLawyer
BabyLawyer
11 years ago

They are not merely ignorant or indifferent to the foundational nature of free speech to the establishment of all other human rights.

Oh Johnny. Free speech is important, but it seems you are “not merely ignorant or indifferent” to how free fucking speech works in this country.

Let’s just recall what the First Amendment actually says for a moment:

Congress shall make no law…or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press

Note how this says Congress cannot abridge free speech.

Much like individual feminazis, Facebook is a private entity. Neither of those entities is “Congress.” Further, users must accept Facebook’s terms of use in order to use the service. It is a contract.

Free speech ain’t absolute, kiddos. See also: causes of action for slander, libel, defamation, and false advertising, then, wipe your tears and grow up.

Dvärghundspossen
11 years ago

Also: Free speech=it’s legal to say, for instance, ableist slurs. It’s just as legal to object to ableist slurs.

Lots of idiots seem to have serious trouble grasping both that legal =/= morally right and how the legality applies equally to people’s objections.

palmedfire
11 years ago

Where does the FREEZE PEACH thing come from?

Dvärghundspossen
11 years ago

Adding: counting no less than three facts about free speech that idiots all over the internet cannot grasp:
1. Legal =/= morally right.
2. Free speech also means freedom to object to what other people say.
3. Private websites, publishing companies and so on have no obligation to accept anyone as a member or publish anyone who wants to be published there. Free speech is a negative right, the right not to be punished by the government for saying what you want to say; it’s not a positive right to be published anywhere you want to be published or be a member anywhere you want to be a member on terms you choose yourself.

girlofthegaps
girlofthegaps
11 years ago

@Marie

To be fair, my brother’s problem is mainly that he’s a very privileged 17-year-old white cis boy, and that my dad is a conservative jerk with no idea how reality works. I’m hoping he’ll take a Women’s Studies 101 course when he leaves home and gets to college, which will make him grow out of it so I won’t have to put up with his Tosh.0 habit when I go home anymore.

Also I’d like a pony.

BabyLawyer
BabyLawyer
11 years ago

@Dvarghundspossen

Exactly. Freedom of the speech and press was intended to encourage public discourse – which would imply a dialogue – without GOVERNMENT interference. This means private entities can shut down certain types of speech within their property, AND it means that people can criticize dumb shit you say in the public realm without fear of government punishment. It is not insurance against backlash for racist or sexist comments.

cloudiah
11 years ago

@palmedfire, Myself I stole FREEZE PEACH from Pharyngula, where I lurk sometimes.

And hi, Ostrijj!

BabyLawyer
BabyLawyer
11 years ago

@dvarghundspossen

Well said – especially good call on the positive versus negative rights thing. Abstract/critical thinking! Oh noes!

katz
11 years ago

WRT private websites, while you guys are of course right, things get a little sticky if a site becomes truly ubiquitous enough that there aren’t real alternate ways to express yourself.

Karalora
Karalora
11 years ago

@palmedfire

“FREEZE PEACH” is a mocking mondegreen of “free speech.” Kind of like the bumper sticker “Envision whirled peas.”

I actually had a freeze peach once. It was half a peach, frozen and with the middle scooped out to make a little bowl which was then filled with peach-flavored frozen smoothie. Yum!

ellex24
ellex24
11 years ago

There was a great 4 part series on PBS over the last month about the US Constitution, which I highly recommend. All 4 parts can be viewed on the PBS website (at least, they can in the US…I don’t know if they can be viewed in other countries). The 3rd episode deals with the Bill of Rights, and incidentally, how “freedom of speech” does not mean you can say absolutely anything you want. Incitements to violence, for example, are generally not considered as covered under the First Amendment.

Once again, MRA’s are back to “I do not think that word means what you think it means.” I suspect most of the American MRA’s also aren’t aware that the US has possibly the most liberally interpreted rights to freedom of speech in the world.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365010643

BabyLawyer
BabyLawyer
11 years ago

@katz

Possibly, but that is not the case with facebook. There is a whole world of internetz out there for these assholes to post their misogynist garbage. Twitter. Tumblr. Reddit. 4Chan. Hell, they could pay for their own damn domain name. I really don’t think you can make that argument with the internet. Plus, I’d think they could still link to reprehensible bullshit from Facebook. They just can’t use Facebook to host that kind of content.

theladyzombie
theladyzombie
11 years ago

@palmedfire And I stole it from the ShitRedditSays subreddit. But it’s mostly because people are getting sick of hearing over privileged jerks shout it whenever anyone calls them out over the horribly shitty things they say about women, minorities, or really anyone who isn’t a straight, white, able-bodied, cis male.