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Homophobia totally the fault of straight women, according to Men’s Rights Redditors

Men forced into macho straightjacked by straight women's expectations, out cruising for chicks.
Men forced into hypermasculine role by straight women, out cruising for chicks.

So we learned the other day from that Man Going His Own Way that male violence was, like, totally the fault of evil sexy ladies. Now, from this Men’s Rights Redditor, we learn that homophobia — or at least homophobia directed at gay men — is all the fault of straight women and their desire for macho dudes. Because straight men don’t ever express any sort of hostility towards gay or effeminate men — it’s just those darn ladies!

I've said this many times in different circumstances, but I fully believe the push for hyper-masculinity is not caused by a desire to prove masculinity to ones peers or caused by some latent homophobia. The cause of hyper-masculinity and its associated homophobic undertones is caused by straight women and what they as a group have deemed "totally unacceptable" in a mate.  Appearing gay (I'm gay) has never really caused me any heartache within a group of men. Even if those men don't know I'm gay and just think I'm an effeminate weirdo. In mixed groups of men and women, it has. I think it stems from female judgement of men who aren't "masculine enough" to be inferior for relationships, men pick up on it and boost up the masculinity and inter-male aggression/intolerance of behaviors not considered normal.  It also comes from widespread female intolerance of any sort of homosexual or "appearing homosexual" behavior in potential mates, an intolerance which isn't found among men. Ask any straight man you know if he would dump his girlfriend/wife if he found out she had lesbian sex before they were dating. Now ask any straight woman you know if she would dump her boyfriend/husband if she found out he had gay sex before they were dating. I have asked these questions to many people. The answers have always backed up my position. I actually had a couple women tell me that they would leave their husbands if they found out that he had fooled around with a guy as young as highschool.
But, huh, what about all those straight dudes who are always calling other dudes “gay” and, you know, that other word that starts with an “f?”

Well, apparently that’s just playful joshing. No harm, no foul! If anything, it shows how wonderfully tolerant of gayness these guys are. I mean, come on, if you can’t see this, you must be stupid, or something. Or so says this other Men’s Rights Redditor:

It takes some advanced cognitive ability to comprehend why most men tease one another for being gay. It has little to do with homosexuality, real or perceived. It is about acceptance. It is also about challenging perception. When one man calls his friend "gay", he is playfully asserting his own dominance over his friend. He is also insinuating not only that he would still accept and love his friend, but also that he recognizes that everyone's at least a little gay, and that they have both grown out of any childish notions of homosexuality being bad and thereby being hurt by being called "gay". They are sharing a bonding experience of mutual acceptance, playfulness, and even affection through this social ritual. One could even suggest that faux male gay shaming is a method of expressing homosexuality in a manner that rates low enough on the kinsey scale to suit their comfort.  Or we could just take it at face value and refuse to explore the psychodynamic behind the process. It seems more convenient when obtuseness is a preferred weapon.

They’re just having a little fun. You’re not against fun, are you?

Thanks to the AgainstMen’sRights subreddit for pointing me to these quotes.

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hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

So, I’m just sitting here in my HUGE house, eating bon bons, shopping for useless crap online, and cleaning and dressing screaming women so that I can send them back out on the street to impersonate homeless people.

What about you guys? Doing anything interesting?

I’m not eating bon bons (had a wisdom tooth yanked out yesterday), but I am shopping for a Father’s Day present. Does it count as misandry if it’s a gift for a man?

This is what I’m ordering him: http://www.hotwiretees.com/Full-Metal-Jacket-Movie-Sgt-Hartman-Warhol-T-Shirt.html

As a retired Marine, the first half of Full Metal jacket makes him giggle like a fool. Of course, it took him a LONG time to watch any of those movies, PTSD is a hell of a thing. Plus, he’s into art, so the Warhol will not be lost on him.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

Hmm … well, it’s a manly man tee, ‘cos soldiers and war movies that are totes real, but isn’t art kinda girly? (Except when it’s being pushed as something All teh Menz take credit for, of course. Just don’t ask any MRA to actually look at the stuff.)

Marie
7 years ago

@pecunium

dafuq? You think the clothes and shoes, and makeup are all free? You think women don’t pay their own way on dates?

I know! Good make up is really expensive. I can never tell if we’re supposed to wear it, too look prettier for men, or not, because it’s decieving men. I always try to convince men I have naturally purple and silver eyelids, don’tchaknow?

Also, I’ll confess that right now I’m not really working (my temporary job ended, and now I need to find a new one) but it’s still not sitting around manboobzing all day, just drawing, housework, trying to finally get my danged learners permit, trying to find a new job, ect.

@kittehs

Me, I have a five-hour commute to my job that pays less than minimum wage because it’s part-time, but which saves lives.

Five hour commute? 🙁

Plus no troll will ever top the hilarity of Meller’s insisting that women are jealous of Hello Kitty because of how fuckable men find her.

…That is so wierd.

@cloudiah

Has anyone else seen a homeless woman?

Adding to the many, many people who have seen homeless women, I have.

Marie
7 years ago

I know I should be ignoring Fedora, but…

Or maybe she was a feminist. Most of them have HUGE houses.

Dang guys, where’s my huge house! Here I am, being a feminist, but I’m just living with my mom in a two room apartment*

*which is totally comfy, I love apartments. But apparently as a feminist it is my duty to have a huge house. I haven’t even managed to con any men out of their houses yet!**

**Sarcasm, because I know trolly boy won’t be able to tell.

Untrue. They have lower fitness standards because no woman has ever met the male target. They take off their heavy equipment and hand it to a man while climbing walls.

Shorter fedora: “I reject your reality and substitute my own!”

@cloudiah

I hope I crash the US economy, buying knickers and adding rooms onto my HUGE house.

The hivemind will be very proud if you manage to crash the economy single handedly 😀

dsfrogs
dsfrogs
7 years ago

“I have naturally purple and silver eyelids, don’tchaknow”
That’s the most annoying part, not only are you expected to spend time and money to look pretty, you are also supposed to pretend it’s natural. Like those hair removal commercials, where the women looks the same before and after ‘removing’.

My guess is that a lot of women become homeless because of DV and sexual abuse.

Amnesia
Amnesia
7 years ago

Has anyone else seen a homeless woman?

I just got out of the homeless shelter a few weeks ago, you shitstain. All I had to do to see a homeless woman was look in a mirror.

Marie
7 years ago

@dsfrogs

“I have naturally purple and silver eyelids, don’tchaknow”
That’s the most annoying part, not only are you expected to spend time and money to look pretty, you are also supposed to pretend it’s natural. Like those hair removal commercials, where the women looks the same before and after ‘removing’.

Agreed. Personally, I only put on make up if it’s obviously not natural, cuz I don’t see the point of pretending (not that there’s a problem with it, despite what mras think, just too much effort without much obvious results.) The only time I used the foundation thing was when I was a (younger) teenager, to cover up zits.

cloudiah
7 years ago

@Amnesia, I hope the mocking we were doing of Hatty’s asshat views about homeless women didn’t cross the line into making light of the reality of homelessness for women. If so, I apologize. 🙁

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

So, Nepenthe very kindly brought actual data to the table with studies, y’know, non-ass-data.

BlackHate ignored that pointedly. (BlackHate was a typo for BlackHat, and it is staying)

He continues to blather that women aren’t homeless and all have big houses.

Ummm….

Yes, men are more likely to be homeless than women.

From http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/who.html

GENDER
Most studies show that single homeless adults are more likely to be male than female. In 2007, a survey by the U.S. Conference of Mayors found that of the population surveyed 35% of the homeless people who are members of households with children are male while 65% of these people are females. However, 67.5% of the single homeless population is male, and it is this single population that makes up 76% of the homeless populations surveyed (U.S. Conference of Mayors, 2007).

Catch that? More than one-third of the US homeless population is women.

MORE THAN ONE-THIRD.

Sir, you are a fucking liar. Your rebuttal?

MordsithJ
7 years ago

Hmm … well, it’s a manly man tee, ‘cos soldiers and war movies that are totes real, but isn’t art kinda girly?

Yabbut, Andy Warhol was shot by Zombie Solanis, so he’s and MRA hero. I think.

Briznecko
Briznecko
7 years ago

Women have more money to spend on themselves than do men because dating , divorce and death all involve transfers from men to women. Hence men earn more from longer hours but women have the higher lung standard.

Pepperpot #1: I can’t tell the difference between Whizzo butter and this dead crab.
Interviewer: Yes, we find that 9 out of 10 British housewives can’t tell the difference between Whizzo Butter and a dead crab.
Various Pepperpots: It’s true… We can’t… No.
Pepperpot #2: Here. Here! You’re on television, aren’t you?
Interviewer: [humbly] Yes, yes…
Pepperpot #2: He does the thing with one of those silly women who can’t tell Whizzo Butter [points with handbag at the butter] from a dead crab [points with handbag at the dead crab].
Various Pepperpots: Yeah, yeah.
Pepperpot #3: You try that around here, young man, and we’ll slit your face.
Pepperpot #4: [quietly] Yeah, with a razor.

-Monty Python’s Flying Circus

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

@Marie: Seconding! I have no make-up or panda paint, nothing in between.

It seems to me that lots of women who do the natural make-up thing (obviously I’m not gonna say all, since we’re all different and that, but quite a lot) become pretty anxious about it. Like, it’s embarrassing to be seen without make-up when you normally have “natural make-up” on. I even knew girls in my teens who’d sleep very fitfully when they slept at their boyfriend’s place, woke up really early and then rushed to the bathroom to put on their natural make-up before boyfriend woke up… Must be really stressful.

The idea that it’s wrong to be ugly (according to a beauty standard that pretty much nobody can live up to) but it’s also wrong to be vain and actually spend time on your looks really is hurtful to women.

GreySky
GreySky
7 years ago

So me not dating and not seeing myself ever getting married actually means I’m kindly not taking advantage of men? That’s a relief. I thought I was one of those evil bitches who refused nice beta males access to pussy and relationships.

pecunium
7 years ago

BlackHate: Both men and women are of the same value. ‘Male’ and ‘female’ roles are just choices we make. Neither the state nor feminism can tell us what they should be.

Ah… MEN should define those roles. Then men can blame women for fulfilling them (stay at home, spend, “his” money, because she has no job, “in keeping with her,’female’ role” and get called a gold-digging hypergamous bitch, or go out, get a job, support herself [and maybe her partner]; so she can be called a castrating bitch, who is destined to get divorced because she, “usurped” the “man’s role”).

That’s a swell system you got there. And you wonder why women aren’t lining up to join it.

Of course you don’t believe it. Your rhetoric is all about how women, just by existing, are a drain on the economy. You complain that the, “traditional gender roles” which are somehow so immutable they have never changed from the beginning of time, and apply to all women, everywhere, always, are a net drain on society.

So the thing you say you hate, is also the thing you say must be enforced.

So you have no leg to stand on when you try to complain about “the way things are”.

katz
7 years ago

Catch that? More than one-third of the US homeless population is women.

That’s about what I would have estimated.

Robert
Robert
7 years ago

On the bisexuality front, my husband is bi. I’m gay. We’ve been together eighteen years. Hasn’t been an issue for us, as far as I know. All of our women friends seem to think we make a lovely couple.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Of course, that’s one-third of the segment of the homeless population where they are the least represented. If we were given all the numbers side by side so we could compare we could work out the total, but they unhelpfully do not provide that.

Hmmph.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Robert — Aww, cute couple! Also, you new around here? We have a Welcome Package!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Howard, give me 5, I’ll do the math, there’s enough there.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Wait, wait, it gets better. Black Hat says that he’s getting his numbers from his observations of the world.

Well, that’s just about the most willfully ignorant way to view the world, son. I’ve found your problem.

Actual studies show you are wrong. Actual studies that Nepenthe linked. Telling us what you observed just tells us what your biases are.

Go back, read those studies. You are denying reality. You have a problem, and a bias, and you’ll never be able to see the world as it is, BlackHat, until you see that.

You know the guy with the black hat was the bad guy, right?

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Argenti, I’m not sure; it seems that they have category single and homeless, and category homeless with children, but doesn’t that drop any homeless couples?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

GENDER
Most studies show that single homeless adults are more likely to be male than female. In 2007, a survey by the U.S. Conference of Mayors found that of the population surveyed 35% of the homeless people who are members of households with children are male while 65% of these people are females. However, 67.5% of the single homeless population is male, and it is this single population that makes up 76% of the homeless populations surveyed (U.S. Conference of Mayors, 2007).

67.5% * 76% = 51.3% — Homeless people who are single men
(100% – 67.5%) * 76% = 24.7% — Homeless people who are single women
35% * (100% – 76%) = 8.4% — Male homeless people in households with children
65% * (100% – 76%) = 15.6% — Female homeless people in households with children

Female homeless, total — 24.7% + 15.6% = 40.3%
Male homeless, total — 51.3% + 8.4% = 59.7%

With the general population 49% male, 51% female, that makes just about an even 10% over/under-representation.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Howard, eh, I guess. But considering how many would be heterosexual couples, it seem moot. Also, check out the difference assuming that does encompass all homeless people.

Amnesia
Amnesia
7 years ago

@cloudiah
Did the Black Fedora say that one thing I quoted, or was that someone else? I thought that was him, and that reply was made accordingly, but if not, sorry to whoever did say it. I should’ve looked for one of his quotes specifically to reply to.

But don’t worry, he’s the only one that really irked me with his dismissal of homeless women. The rest of you non-trolls were fine. Besides, I’m in a much happier situation at the moment, with my own room and a bathroom and a door and a garden and a job and all the stuff that’s been languishing in storage and a washer/dryer and a refrigerator and the opportunity to catch up on Atop the Fourth Wall and a hat rack… Pretty much all that’s missing right now is my cat, but give me two weeks and I will be the happiest and most fearless little burrito you ever did see. It’s all good.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Not sure who you quoted, but I, for one, assumed it was he who asked the question — Fedora. And w00t for rooms and bathrooms and jobs and KITTIES!!!

(I’m apparently quite excitable on 4 hours of sleep, sorry guys)

Maude LL
Maude LL
7 years ago

Wow, what a blatant example of fedora blindness. He’s never seen a homeless woman. I bet he doesn’t know that most free shelters don’t accept women either, because they have serious problems with rape. That’s why we have women’s shelters, the ‘normal’ shelters are for men. Same for soup kitchens. They accept women in soup kitchens, but sexual harassment (including touching) is the norm for women who eat there.

It may be anecdotal, but this is my personal experience from when I was homeless.

Amnesia
Amnesia
7 years ago

From my personal experience at the homeless shelter, the women’s dorm was usually less full than the men’s dorm, but when you took into account the women staying in the family dorms with their children, the ratio evened out.
Of course, that doesn’t take into consideration what the actual demand was, how often either demographic was turned away because of a full house, how long their stays were, etc. Just one dataPOV to consider.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Thanks, Amnesia. Sometimes I can get a little glib, and I worry that there might be some collateral damage. 0_o But yay that your getting your kitty back soon, and for everything else!

cloudiah
7 years ago

^ you’re ^

Robert
Robert
7 years ago

Argenti, molto obbligato. I’ve been lurking for simply ages. I have commented before, but not often. I have no cat, but am planning to adopt one from the shelter (that’s a thing, right) when both our sons go off to college. Two dads, two sons – we are the most androcentric household we know, and yet we are not MRAs.

Nova
Nova
7 years ago

*waves* Female combat vet here. Nobody carried my gear for me. In fact, my sex was pretty much irrelevant. My ability to fire my weapon was a LOT more important because, you know, that was what we were there to do. As far as standards in training went, there were a few things that I technically had to do less of, but… again, nobody really paid attention to that. I did what the guys did. We were a very cohesive unit, without regard to sex, race, age, etc. And I’m glad we were or we’d have gotten ourselves killed.

I’m in the “male role?” Really? My ex? He’s mentally ill, with some pretty out there delusions about life. He really believed that if he were just pure enough, with enough mental energy, he could make money appear out of thin air, walk on water and control the universe, just by thinking about it. And that wasn’t the worst of it, sadly. Last I heard, he was living in a tent city cult commune and was planning on going to Siberia to find a magical cedar tree that will make him immortal.

When I met my SO, I was in a better financial position than he was, for reasons that are nobody’s business. It happens sometimes. The fact that I paid for dates didn’t make me the “man” in the relationship. It just meant that I had two very lucrative jobs at the time and he was trying to get back on his feet after some setbacks. Going out for sushi was a lot more interesting than sitting around my apartment watching TV and we both really enjoyed it. Didn’t really matter who’s wallet was opened at the end of dinner.

The Great Furry Ones? Oh yes, they are the leaders of the Furinatti. However, as it’s spring time, one of the Great Furry Ones has completely blown his coat, so he’s more like the Great Peachfuzzy One. But, he will be greater and furrier when his spring fur comes back in.

BigMomma
BigMomma
7 years ago

I haven’t caught up on the comments but er, no homeless women? Guess I must have been imagining the last 18years of my professional life.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

He really believed that if he were just pure enough, with enough mental energy, he could make money appear out of thin air, walk on water and control the universe, just by thinking about it. And that wasn’t the worst of it, sadly. Last I heard, he was living in a tent city cult commune and was planning on going to Siberia to find a magical cedar tree that will make him immortal.

Were you in California, and is your ex Russian? If so I think I know him…did he think that humans were capable of photosynthesis if they just concentrated hard enough too?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Cassandra — idk about photosynthesis, but the rest of that is straight out of some really shitty “Magick 101” books (like, I can scan you the “$100 bill trick” if you want)

Consumerism at it’s finest. But my book to teach you how to make money appear! (Note, the book I have is more sacred space stuff, very much like the new “relaxation room” trends, but with a pagan bent; but I can totally see people buying into it wholesale)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

The dude I knew seriously thought that humans were capable of photosynthesis and Evil Powers were Conspiring to keep this knowledge from us in order to enslave us. We have lots of people who’re wacky in that particular way here.

Nova
Nova
7 years ago

@CassandraSays: He’s Ukranian, but regularly refers to himself as Russian. We didn’t live in California, but he took a lengthy road trip through about… 4 or 5 years ago, to find $180 million dollars in treasure buried in a mountain just outside Phoenix, because a Paulo Cohelo book said so.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

The one I knew delivered drugs for the Russian mafia, so probably not the same guy. Not surprised that your ex ended up here, though, we seem to be catnip for people with odd theories.

pecunium
7 years ago

Nova: *waves* Female combat vet here.

What was your unit/rotation? (if you don’t mind saying, in public)?

I was in OIF-1, with A/519th MI.

One of the best grenadiers I know (M-203) was a small woman; about 5’1″, and maybe 110 lbs. A 40lb vest of grenades, and the 15 lbs of rifle/launcher was her everyday rig.

And no one was going to be allowed to carry it for her.

Yeah.

katz
7 years ago

One of the best grenadiers I know (M-203) was a small woman; about 5’1″, and maybe 110 lbs. A 40lb vest of grenades, and the 15 lbs of rifle/launcher was her everyday rig.

Seras Victoria?

Kittehserf
7 years ago

“The Great Furry Ones? Oh yes, they are the leaders of the Furinatti. However, as it’s spring time, one of the Great Furry Ones has completely blown his coat, so he’s more like the Great Peachfuzzy One. But, he will be greater and furrier when his spring fur comes back in.”

That image will live with me forever! 😀

pecunium
7 years ago

katz: much more kick-ass. 🙂

Nova
Nova
7 years ago

@CassandraSays: Nope, not my ex, although I think I know the guy you’re talking about and what happened to make him so… eccentric.

@Pecunium: I was in a combined artillery battallion in the Czech Land Forces. I don’t like to talk about it much online, as I’m very easily findable online, with a little information.

pecunium
7 years ago

Nova: I understand. No worries, it’s why I qualified my question.

Nova
Nova
7 years ago

@Pecunium: Thanks for understanding. It’s incredible what you can find out, just with someone’s full name, or even an often used handle :shudders:

@kittehserf: It’s funnier in person, LOL. My other ferrets don’t molt nearly as much, so it was surprising. The fur on his head, legs and tail are normal, but his back and belly lost all of the brown guard hairs and are covered in soft white peachfuzzy stuff. One day, my little PUF was chocolate brown and now dude’s practically naked.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

It’s even funnier being a ferret, my mind defaulted to cat! 😀

Nova
Nova
7 years ago

@kittehserf: With the amount of hair that little stinker spread all over my HUGE house (all 500sqft of it,) youd think that he was a cat or a medium sized dog. I’m ever thankful that my big bulldog ferret doesn’t molt like that or it’d be like the popcorn scene in Real Genius.

Marie
7 years ago

@Maude LL

I bet he doesn’t know that most free shelters don’t accept women either, because they have serious problems with rape. That’s why we have women’s shelters, the ‘normal’ shelters are for men. Same for soup kitchens. They accept women in soup kitchens, but sexual harassment (including touching) is the norm for women who eat there.

Oh 🙁 Faith in humanity lowering some more…

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Amnesia

I’ve been skidding on the unstable housing rails for a while. Right now, I have a room, for a little while anyway, but would you be willing to talk with me about your experience with the shelter system? Seeing as I’m likely to end up there, I’d like to know more about it.

bootsboneromanov
bootsboneromanov
5 years ago

Mothers tend to get the sons that they bring up. A very startling study done in Boston in the 1970s under Dr R. W. Reynolds suggests that nearly all homophobic males entered Kindergarten as homophobes. So far as I know, that means that the homophobe learnt his homophobia in a female-dominated environment; nor was it corrected by the mother, apparently. Thereafter, grammar school is female-dominated. Boys don’t even get a chance to learn homophobia from men until they’re in their teens and in high school in most jurisdictions. Yes, homophobia has female origins. It may be one of those ugly facts we ignore because it appears unchivalrous; certainly it is denied by almost women. “Who me? I don’t fart.”

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

You necro’d a thread from two years ago to tell us about a forty year old study without linking to it? Twenty bucks says that study never actually even says that it’s all the mother’s fault. I’m guessing that’s your university of assfax educated guess. The notion that boys have no male influences either in the family or popular culture is absolutely absurd. I’m not saying that women are never homophobic, but to claim homophobia has female origins is just ridiculous and unfounded.

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