So “dating” guru Roosh has a post up on his Return of Kings blog by another self-professed dating guru, Alex Matlock, who rates various types of “bad sex” according to the type of female partner who’s involved in them, including such charmingly named types as “The one that tries too much (aka The Disaster)” and “The one that doesn’t move (aka The Starfish or The Doll).”
I expected a good deal of standard-issue manosphere misogyny in Matlock’s list, but I honestly couldn’t make it past his description of what he regards as the second-worst type of female sex partner: “The one that’s scared (aka The Virgin).” Because what he’s describing doesn’t sound so much like “bad sex” as “date rape.”
[TRIGGER WARNING for what follows; emphasis mine.]
.
.
.
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This girl doesn’t necessarily have to be a virgin because she can still act the part many years after she’s popped that priceless cherry. She will usually look at you with fear in her eyes as if she has no idea about what’s going to happen. She gently pushes you away as if she’s not ready for the event and when it does happen she continues to act like it’s the first time. She usually sits in some extremely awkward positions that make you give up and just go missionary. This girl will eventually bust your nut but she’ll surely leave you with a sense of disappointment and/or guilt.
Uh, Mr. Matlock, I’m hoping for everyone’s sake that this is a hypothetical “humorous” scenario you’ve come up with for the sake of this article and not something you’ve been a part of in the actual real world on a regular basis, because, unless you’ve left out that portion of the hypothetical events in which the woman in question clearly and unequivocally consents to having sex with your hypothetical protagonist here, what you’ve just described as “bad sex” (for the hypothetical dude) is actually a description of, well, rape from the point of view of the rapist.
In which case that twinge of guilt your hypothetical protagonist hypothetically feels is probably just the tiny part of his hypothetical self that’s still human reacting to the fact that he JUST (hypothetically) FUCKING RAPED SOMEONE.
MRAs and PUAs and manospherean assholes generally like to pretend that consent is some weird and mysterious thing, but it’s really not. Here’s a hint: if a women looks at you with fear in her eyes and pushes you away all while sitting in a position that makes sex difficult …. all that means NO.
The fact that Matlock — despite those twinges of guilt — still doesn’t regard this as the worst kind of “bad sex” (for the guy) but merely the second-worst adds a certain level of absurdity to the horror.
Given Roosh’s publication of this piece by Matlock, and the fact that he himself has already confessed to committing what would be considered date rape by American standards by having sex with at woman too inebriated to give consent, perhaps it’s time to stop referring to Roosh as a dating guru and to start referring to him as a date rape guru.
I don’t really have anything else to say.
Here, as brain bleach, are some cats with smaller versions of themselves:
Black Fedora: Guess my age. Guess how may boyfriends I’ve had.
Please. I need the lulz.
David Futrelle
Seriously? what is wrong with this guy?
I really hope there are not a lot of men out there that take what Alex Matlock, says as gospel, then we’re in deep trouble and arguably we do have a rape culture here in America.
Without being there it is impossible to know exactly what was going on.. but consider this. If a woman is on the bed, naked and feeling unsure. If she feels ‘dirty’ because good girls do not do that sort of thing but she clearly wants to because she has said she wanted to and has taken her clothes off.
What is the kindest thing to do?
Is is..
a) Get all PC on her- talk about intercourse being rape or some similar baloney and leave her feeling more confused and guilty than before.
or
b) Put your arm around her, murmur sweet nothings into her ear and wait for her to relax.
You seem to be saying that b) is rape. I just do not see it. She is afraid- yes. She is afraid of being judged. She is afraid she may not enjoy it or any number of other things but she is looking to the man to help her feel ok and safe.
So.. she relaxes and everything seems fine except that in the morning some of the old fears return. She wonders if she let herself down or if her friends would call her a slut if they knew.
The guy has done nothing wrong. He has waited and been sensitive. He has hopefully made her cum a few times and now he hopes she will see it as a liberating experience and the start of a great relationship. Remenber.. she was in full agreement. It was just that she had some inhibitions to overcome.
But.. he sees the old doubts return. He wonders if he has encouraged her to do something she will be ashamed of.
So he feels guilty. He has done all he could but the results were not what he hoped.
The article was simply advice to avoid a woman who has these conflicts. This is hard on women who need this help but probably wise as this culture tends to seem bad intent in men even when it is not there.
@The Black Fedora,
Hi Pell.
But yes, do guess our ages and how many sexual partners we’ve had before peltdown.
Greatest.
Cockblock.
Ever.
“Hey honey, what would you like to do tonight?”
“I’m not too keen on anything much, ‘fraid”
“Oh really?”
“Uh, darling, what’s that in your hand?”
“Nothing important. Anyway, take your shirt off”
“I’m not sure about this, darling, I’m a little worried actually…”
“No! You are in my room! You have already taken your shoes off. TIME TO BEAT IT!”
“What? Beat what?”
“YOU! With this hardcopy print out of the SCUM Manifesto! MWahahahah”
Smack, smack, smack, oh, uh, ah, lovely, hey can we… oh that’s goo– [Fibi gets all flustered, trails off]
Anyone else glad Fedora is Going His Own Way?
Fedora, stop spouting your rape apologist crap and guess my age, level of hatred for men, and how many boyfriends I’ve had.
Fedora, after you guess my age and cock carousel number, will you tell me what, specifically, you find “worth supporting” about the KKK?
Ooh, false dichotomy! The logical fallacy so blatant even I can identify it!
BlackAsshat forgot c.) talk to her like she’s a human being and find out what’s wrong. or d.) don’t have sex.
What a maroon.
@the black fedora
Fucking reading comprehension, bub. Just fucking ask her to make sure she’s okay with it rather than risk raping her!
That’s because B doesn’t involve consent, dumbass
No, he’s a rapist, which is wrong, you dumb asshole.
Except nowhere in the post did it say she was in agreement.
Also, please actually bother to the last comment I typed to you, k’thnx bye.
@cloudiah
Apparently David wrote the SPLC piece?
“this is just another example of a feminist making a false accusation”
I can’t even
I kinda considered pulling up a vague description of murder and then putting a positive spin on it, but that seemed like too much work.
I’m so glad thought that Fedora has come up with an explanation to rape. Nobody here said intercourse was rape. However, intercourse when your partner is afraid and pushing you away is rape. You might note that what appears to be important in the scene described is that the MAN “busts his nut”. This isn’t a story about a woman and her comfort. This about the dude getting off. And it is described as the second worst type of sex you can have. It isn’t a caring love story. And trying to spin it like it is……..is just BS?
I feel that the reason I will never understand logic is that the argument
“Einstein came up with relativity, Brownian motion and explained the photo-electric effect therefore rape should be tolerated”
Is beyond my comprehension.
Pec,
Actually I am more in agreement with you over Roosh than you might think. He makes his life’s work the pursuit of woman and is not that great at it. The first book I read of his was ‘A dead bat in Paraguay’. On one level it was an adventure story and a farce as well as a look at a man I absolutely do not want to be. He basically humiliated himself all around S America not getting laid until he finally arrived in Brazil where he met what seems a wonderful woman that was everything he dreamed of while setting out. He fell head over heels in love but had to break both his heart and hers so that he could continue the same humiliating lifestyle.
It is a cautionary tale about the dangers of pick up.
Some pick up is good. It tells you how to put women at ease, be funny and generally create a good vibe. PUA’s often talk about the drug of seeing a woman laugh and her eyes sparkle far more than the sex which seems simply to justify all the effort. It makes work a lot more fun.
There is much about self esteem and self confidence too. All good.
Making your life’s work the pursuit of women- bad.
I am opposed to the PU lifestyle because it is all about chasing something just beyond reach. Over time it causes men to like women less. The same goes with sex positive feminists. The more sex the less empathy. I have no idea why.
All I said in favor of Roosh was that he was a great writer and underhandedly persecuted by the SPLC. I understand they have now retracted this.
NB the quotes in the article are not even those of Roosh.
Black Fedora: Without being there it is impossible to know exactly what was going on..* but consider this. If a woman is on the bed, naked and feeling unsure. If she feels ‘dirty’ because good girls do not do that sort of thing but she clearly wants to because she has said she wanted to and has taken her clothes off.
What is the kindest thing to do?
Stop. That’s it. Stop.
All the rest of your blather is morally spineless. It’s justtifications for ignoring her feelings, and assuming your desires are more important than hers.
You seem to be saying that b) is rape. I just do not see it. She is afraid- yes. She is afraid of being judged. She is afraid she may not enjoy it or any number of other things but she is looking to the man to help her feel ok and safe.
What? There is a word for the rhetorical devices you are using, that word is apology. You are making excuses for rape. Best part; you admit they are bullshit (See above, “without being gthere it is impossible to know”). You weren’t there, you don’t know; but you are willing to base an entire argument on the idea that she “really, and trulio WANTED IT”, and the faling on the dude’s part is that he was so shitty in the sack that she didn’t lie back and start to enjoy being raped.
The guy has done nothing wrong. He has waited and been sensitive.
The fuck? He ignored,”the fear her eyes” and that she was, “pushing him away”.
Again, remind me not to talk about the possibility of doing business with you, ‘No, I’m not sure this is a good idea, the interest rate seems excessive, and the terms of delivery a bit vague. My redress is ill-defined. I think I’ll pass”.
The next day I’ll get an invoice.
*1: I praise your use of the MRA Double Period. It proves you are dedicated, and “serious”. 2: This is the heart of it, you weren’t there and are making shit up. The shit you make up… shocker, I know, is all about justifications to make it not rape. You are making excuses for rape.
@melody
QFT. BS and rape apologia.
@the black fedora
Nothing about pickup artists puts me at east, dipshit. .
damn… I’m going to miss the peltdown (he called me Pec, he remembers, he cares), but I’m at a convention, and there is a concert I really don’t want to miss.
All I said in favor of Roosh was that he was a great writer
You said more than that, and I talked about more than that. Cat got your tongue on the rest?
and underhandedly persecuted by the SPLC. I understand they have now retracted this.
You are in error with your understanding.
snort.
“Using the latest cutting edge bio truth science developed by bars and men we will give you the fool proof system to get a girlfriend, the EAST system. We use modified location modalities, which you will learn about in module 3, to put you west of the women of your dreams! Then, using our patented Over The Moon system, we will triangulate your position.
The position of YOUR HEARTS DESIRES!”
Now that Roosh is no longer watched by the SPLC (assuming what you’re saying is true) is he still worthy of support? Or is that still just the KKK?
Also age and boyfriend guessing. Do it.
…You wouldn’t happen to owe me a female GaoGaiGar, would you?
Pec,
Game, even at its worst (pick up lines, pre prepared stories and so on) are no more manipulative than a push up bra. Actually the scripted stuff is out of fashion anyway. These days it is all about finding the true you and bringing it out. The real person- the person we were born to be- is always more charismatic that the person we try to be.
augo
What is a GaoGaiGar?
I SAID THIS CONVERSATION WAS DEAD. YOU ARE ALL ZOMBIES.
Go fuck yourself you disigenous twit. Manipulating people and, oh yeah, fucking raping them is so much worse than wearing a pushup bra. Infact what the fuck is wrong with a push up bra? Convincing guys your boobs are bigger than they are? Cry me a river, not all of women’s fashion choices are made because of guys.
Testing to see if I can post as Zombie Marie now…
http://manboobz.com/2013/03/12/the-door-pattern-creepiest-bit-of-pickup-artist-bullshit-ever/
vs
(Safe for work. Sort of. I mean… ladies, bra)
Even. There really is no difference between the two. One is no better than the other. I honestly believe this.