So “dating” guru Roosh has a post up on his Return of Kings blog by another self-professed dating guru, Alex Matlock, who rates various types of “bad sex” according to the type of female partner who’s involved in them, including such charmingly named types as “The one that tries too much (aka The Disaster)” and “The one that doesn’t move (aka The Starfish or The Doll).”
I expected a good deal of standard-issue manosphere misogyny in Matlock’s list, but I honestly couldn’t make it past his description of what he regards as the second-worst type of female sex partner: “The one that’s scared (aka The Virgin).” Because what he’s describing doesn’t sound so much like “bad sex” as “date rape.”
[TRIGGER WARNING for what follows; emphasis mine.]
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This girl doesn’t necessarily have to be a virgin because she can still act the part many years after she’s popped that priceless cherry. She will usually look at you with fear in her eyes as if she has no idea about what’s going to happen. She gently pushes you away as if she’s not ready for the event and when it does happen she continues to act like it’s the first time. She usually sits in some extremely awkward positions that make you give up and just go missionary. This girl will eventually bust your nut but she’ll surely leave you with a sense of disappointment and/or guilt.
Uh, Mr. Matlock, I’m hoping for everyone’s sake that this is a hypothetical “humorous” scenario you’ve come up with for the sake of this article and not something you’ve been a part of in the actual real world on a regular basis, because, unless you’ve left out that portion of the hypothetical events in which the woman in question clearly and unequivocally consents to having sex with your hypothetical protagonist here, what you’ve just described as “bad sex” (for the hypothetical dude) is actually a description of, well, rape from the point of view of the rapist.
In which case that twinge of guilt your hypothetical protagonist hypothetically feels is probably just the tiny part of his hypothetical self that’s still human reacting to the fact that he JUST (hypothetically) FUCKING RAPED SOMEONE.
MRAs and PUAs and manospherean assholes generally like to pretend that consent is some weird and mysterious thing, but it’s really not. Here’s a hint: if a women looks at you with fear in her eyes and pushes you away all while sitting in a position that makes sex difficult …. all that means NO.
The fact that Matlock — despite those twinges of guilt — still doesn’t regard this as the worst kind of “bad sex” (for the guy) but merely the second-worst adds a certain level of absurdity to the horror.
Given Roosh’s publication of this piece by Matlock, and the fact that he himself has already confessed to committing what would be considered date rape by American standards by having sex with at woman too inebriated to give consent, perhaps it’s time to stop referring to Roosh as a dating guru and to start referring to him as a date rape guru.
I don’t really have anything else to say.
Here, as brain bleach, are some cats with smaller versions of themselves:
Howie (your avatar is kinda cute):Yes and no to both. I have some kind vague understanding of the word, it’s something like context (the environment in which a statement is made) but different, some kind of a not explicitly stated assumption, which in some way is conveyed to the reader without being said (unclear how?), but the I feel the meaning is diffuse anyway.
Okay, talacaris, I will explain how this conversation went and my use of the word subtext and the meaning of that link.
Eurosabra came in to blather about how he doesn’t stand with rapists. I pointed out that the subtext, the words that aren’t spoken but that everybody hears, is that he’s trying to say that even though he’s a PUA just like them, they’re somehow beyond some line of decency that he can see.
But there is no line. He’s admitted to manipulating women to get them into bed, to “mild gaslighting,” etc.
I crossposted with you, and when you asked about subtext, I pointed at that the subtext with every post you make is that you are a self-admitted troll. I.e., when we read your posts we’re thinking to ourselves ‘this is talacaris, he’s not serious and he’s not really here in honesty to discuss this.’
Which is boring and gets old.
My avatar is Cable, Nathan Summers. The sum total of 90s-era terrible writing. Toxic masuclinity in a nutshell.
In the picture, just barely visible, is the baby he’s carrying.
The art on that particular picture is just fantastic. I love it immensely.
ok, why don’t you just say that from the start so it’s understandable. was my understaning of the word on the way to the mark?
Yeah, you mostly got it.
And I didn’t say so from the start because I can’t tell when you’re trolling or when you actually don’t understand.
….did nobody EVER tell you the story of the boy who cried wolf?
Ok, talcaris, since you have massively insensitive feet, sub in sharp thumbtacks for the legos.
Legos hurt my feet horribly when I step on them by mistake.
Gee, I can’t imagine why people here might judge you just because you admit to lying to women to get sex. I simply cannot fathom why anyone might think that makes you a manipulative, selfish, untrustworthy person.
Eurosabra, just leave and stop trying to pretend you are a decent person. You will be happier and so will we.
Did Eurosabra actually just pull “Well yeah, I’m a lying manipulative sleazebag, but society makes allowances for people like me.”
Yeah, no shit, it’s called “rape culture.”
“My shitty treatment of women is reinforced by dominant cultural narratives that serve to protect rapists and domestic abusers from consequences” is not something to be proud of.
@Eurocreep
See, the problem is there was no consent in the ‘consensual non-consent here’. You may have noticed, but the first step in consensual non-consent is…wait for it…consent!
@katz
You dinosaur, you 😉
@pineapplecookies
Thank you. 😀
Now, to Eurocreep again:
“Because it is socially acceptable, it must be right!!!!!!eleventy!!” ~genius~ it’s not like we are living in a rape culture or anything…oh wait.
QFT. And quoting also so Eurosabra can see it twice, in hopes it will sink in one day…
Yeah, if you’re going to equate charisma and charm with rape culture, I should just thank you for NOT equating male sexuality itself with rape culture and take my leave. The difference is, your hyperbole accuses me of things that are more stigmatized, whereas hating men as you do is kosher.
So basically you think my lying about my own disability status is coercion. That’s unreasonable in the extreme.
No, I equated the BELIEF that manipulating and lying to women is just “charisma and charm” with rape culture.
Um, male sexuality is fine. Most men even have sex with women without any gaslighting or rape at all.
So all lying in a romantic context is always wrong? Because I have never had a woman STAY when I revealed my situation right away (say within 1 week of starting to date) whereas about 90% of the time when I have revealed it later (say 1 month to 1 year in) they’ve stayed. You’re asking me not to date or have sex, which is what you ask of socially disadvantaged men in general anyway. What’s new?
Shorter Manboobz: “Men (and only men) must reveal their most serious defects before their positive qualities have had time to be revealed. It’s only HONEST.”
I mean, who would want to have a relationship or sex with someone with a disability? Especially one who told the truth about it?
Wait, you mean that people with disabilities have relationships and sex? Frequently? Without having to lie and manipulate?
Blasphemy, according to Eurosabra, who wants it to be a divine right of gross dudes to lie and manipulate women into having sex.
@Eurocreep
…That’s because you aren’t describing charisma, you’re describing being a manipulative little fuck.
I think like one person said it? I mean, I don’t think it is, but we’re not a hivemind, so…
Having seen you posting here, I’m not surprised. It’s not your disability, dude, it’s your gaslighting, manipulation, and being an all around asshole.
I think the problem is that you don’t have any positive qualities to be revealed. Also, have fun fucking that strawchicken.
Darn forgot the MRA two-point ellipse in message above..
I year! You waited a fucking year? I don’t even know what disability you are blathering on about that makes you so undateable, aside from being a waste of space in general.
A year is beyond any pale.
A month is already getting silly, if you are seeing someone every day.
No, I’m pretty certain it was just the too-early revelation of something so extremely stigmatized. Remember what gets said here about men telling women their experiences?
@Eurosabra
Why would you want to be with someone who would have a problem with your disability? And why would you outright lie about it? That’s fucked up man. A bit of self-loathing?
Not to say that you shouldn’t loathe yourself, but not for being disabled.
I don’t fuck around with that and my disability is invisible, so I do actually have to tell people. Maybe I’ve lost a few friends and lovers in advance that way, but whatever. They wouldn’t have supported me anyway.
About men dictating to women the women’s experiences, I mean..
@Eurosabra
Nope, plz enlighten us what we apparently have been saying.
*stars intently at computer screen*
If someone lied to me, actively lied to me, about a disability for a year and then disclosed, I’d dump them — for the lying, not for the disability.
In any case, I seriously doubt that your disability is the problem. Maybe in some of the cases, but you’ve already proven yourself to be a terrible person here, so I suspect that is what is driving people away from you in droves.
“I mean, if I didn’t lie to women, I’d never get to have sex! WHAT OTHER CHOICE DO I HAVE?”
You stupid asshole.
Yes, discrimination against people with disabilities is real, and yes, it fucking sucks, and yes, it absolutely needs to change. But simply the fact that some people won’t have sex with you is not a good excuse for deceit. You aren’t required to disclose your disability – that’s entirely your prerogative, as far as I’m concerned – but your backwards fucking justification for lying is pretty indicative of why you’re a consent-hostile douche.
And Nepenthe is right; early disclosure just exposes the assholes you wouldn’t want to date anyway.