So “dating” guru Roosh has a post up on his Return of Kings blog by another self-professed dating guru, Alex Matlock, who rates various types of “bad sex” according to the type of female partner who’s involved in them, including such charmingly named types as “The one that tries too much (aka The Disaster)” and “The one that doesn’t move (aka The Starfish or The Doll).”
I expected a good deal of standard-issue manosphere misogyny in Matlock’s list, but I honestly couldn’t make it past his description of what he regards as the second-worst type of female sex partner: “The one that’s scared (aka The Virgin).” Because what he’s describing doesn’t sound so much like “bad sex” as “date rape.”
[TRIGGER WARNING for what follows; emphasis mine.]
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This girl doesn’t necessarily have to be a virgin because she can still act the part many years after she’s popped that priceless cherry. She will usually look at you with fear in her eyes as if she has no idea about what’s going to happen. She gently pushes you away as if she’s not ready for the event and when it does happen she continues to act like it’s the first time. She usually sits in some extremely awkward positions that make you give up and just go missionary. This girl will eventually bust your nut but she’ll surely leave you with a sense of disappointment and/or guilt.
Uh, Mr. Matlock, I’m hoping for everyone’s sake that this is a hypothetical “humorous” scenario you’ve come up with for the sake of this article and not something you’ve been a part of in the actual real world on a regular basis, because, unless you’ve left out that portion of the hypothetical events in which the woman in question clearly and unequivocally consents to having sex with your hypothetical protagonist here, what you’ve just described as “bad sex” (for the hypothetical dude) is actually a description of, well, rape from the point of view of the rapist.
In which case that twinge of guilt your hypothetical protagonist hypothetically feels is probably just the tiny part of his hypothetical self that’s still human reacting to the fact that he JUST (hypothetically) FUCKING RAPED SOMEONE.
MRAs and PUAs and manospherean assholes generally like to pretend that consent is some weird and mysterious thing, but it’s really not. Here’s a hint: if a women looks at you with fear in her eyes and pushes you away all while sitting in a position that makes sex difficult …. all that means NO.
The fact that Matlock — despite those twinges of guilt — still doesn’t regard this as the worst kind of “bad sex” (for the guy) but merely the second-worst adds a certain level of absurdity to the horror.
Given Roosh’s publication of this piece by Matlock, and the fact that he himself has already confessed to committing what would be considered date rape by American standards by having sex with at woman too inebriated to give consent, perhaps it’s time to stop referring to Roosh as a dating guru and to start referring to him as a date rape guru.
I don’t really have anything else to say.
Here, as brain bleach, are some cats with smaller versions of themselves:
The “you only get to feel threatened if I think you should feel threatened” trope is particularly strong in the manosphere. I’ve seen thread after thread on r/mr of guys super offended because some woman on the street gave them the side-eye or actually looked frightened of them. Yet they sure love to bust out the threatening “nice gender you’ve got there, shame if something were to happen to it” language.
Melody, sorry you’re in pain! Hope CassandraSays’ remedies can help.
@ Gametime
Yep. Which isn’t doing his credibility in general any favors. If you’re going to be an asshole you should at least be honest about it.
One of the interesting things about PUA is responding to situations which are well-defined with the assertion that their meaning is the opposite of the ostensibly-observable one, because the world is opaque unless revealed by the discernment of one who has Lifted The Veil. Or it’s just imposing one’s kink without safewords, opt-out or even labeling the début of the scene as such to let people know it’s a scene.
I actually would feel less threatened by that statement coming from a person who I didn’t think was capable of physically overpowering me. That doesn’t make the statement itself OK, though.
BDSM à l’envers, deliberately setting out to do it all wrong, yes, possibly…
That’s not solely a PUA thing.
One of the interesting things about life is responding to situations which are well-defined with the assertation that their meaning is the opposite of the ostensibly observable one, because the world is opaque unless revelead by some discernment nominally omniscient.
That works for everything
One of the interesting things about pickles is responding to situations whihc are well-defined…
one of the interesting things about swords is responding to situations which are well-defined…
—
Still makes the assumption that you can violate borders “If you do it correctly” a pretty terrible assumption.
That’s a pretty fancy way of saying “PUA is all about denying observable facts.”
I suppose one could call it “interesting”, in much the same way that the Milgram experiment was interesting.
Can we discuss the meaning of pickles for a while? What is the ostensibly observable meaning of pickles? What is its opposite?
A) Attractiveness does not change your ability to violate people’s boundaries
B) neither does being female, though women are perceived as less of a threat than men. That’s not good, though.
C) okay, so people with disabilities are read as unthreatening, and are probably less capable of physically holding someone down and raping them, but I find it very infantilizing to act like a threatening statement from an able-bodied person suddenly turns “joking” from a PWD. It feels like the creepy desire for control is still there, even if the rejecter may not feel that person has the force to back it up with.
The meaning of pickles is yum.
Yeah, I’m just not seeing it, for whatever reason. I think it comes from the idea that a man’s “No” is an impossibility, such that a woman saying “You don’t get to say no” comes off as incredible, literally, not credible as a threat, because a woman pushing boundaries seems improbable, because of the default level of women’s supposed desire being meh and women’s greater socialization towards catering to other people.
The opposite of pickle is the fresh produce. The meaning of pickle is to preserve food so that we may sustain our Physical Bodies, even whilst Time passes and the fresh produce is long decayed. The pickle represents Man’s fear of Death and his attempt to triumph over it.
The meaning of the pickle is deliciousness. It’s opposite is the cucumber, which is naaaaaasty.
Another possible topic for conversation: Christian heavy metal dude Tim Lambesis is now claiming that steroid use is what caused him to pay an undercover cop money to kill his ex wife, and also give the ostensibly observable hit man (but really cop) the access codes to her house and the dates when he had custody of the kids so they wouldn’t be home.
What is the meaning of this? What is its opposite?
The meaning of pickle is that I’m about to eat spicy food. The opposite of pickle is Eurosabra, in that he has not use other than attempting to justify awful things for no apparent reason.
I think Nepenthe wins this round of the Pickle Definition Sweepstakes.
The meaning of the Tim Lambesis case is that Christian heavy metal should not exist, and when you combine the misogyny in fundamentalism with the misogyny in heavy metal culture you get Very Bad Things.
And the music sucks.
Fun fact: The salt in pickle juice is just for flavor, it’s the vinegar that preserves the cucumber.
The music sucking is why it shouldn’t exist. The lyrics are hilarious, though.
AHHHHHHHHH!!!! I had mercifully forgotten all about Stryper.
Plus the bumblebee color sheme. I’m not quite sure how that was meant to be godly.
@Eurosabra
I didn’t understand the rest of your argle blargle, but IMPOSING? wtf? And you wonder why we think puas advocate rape…
If a man’s no is taken as an impossibility, and a woman says ‘you don’t get to say no’…that’s…that’s still a fucking threat. Especially since male rape victims are considered lucky to have gotten rape by some people, because hey, all dudes want sex, right?
@hellkell
OBJECTION! Cucumbers can be eaten in many tasty ways, examples of which are in a salad, or fried with breading and dipped in marinera sauce. They are excellent with the breading, as it brings out their juiciness. Let us contemplate the juiciness.
@cassandrasays
*envy* I love spicy food.
What do you mean the lyrics are hilarious? These lyrics are sheer poetry, observably:
from “Shining Star” by Stryper
Or maybe the opposite of sheer poetry. Okay, hilarious. You were right.