The Men’s Rights subreddit has a new favorite lady! The one in the pictures above, if you haven’t guessed. Her name is Sonia Verstappen, and until recently she was a sex worker in Brussels; she’s also an activist for the legalization of sex work. The stills above are apparently from a documentary called Sex Workers and Proud.
The Men’s Rights Redditors who love her don’t actually know any of this. They just love her because she’s a women who apparently thinks hysterical, man-destroying American lesbians have taken over feminism.
This little set of screenshots has been posted to the Men’s Rights subreddit several times before, and I’m pretty sure it’s always gotten a positive response, but never quite as positive as it’s gotten this time: as I write this, it’s been sitting comfortably in the #1 spot on the subreddit’s main page for some time, and has garnered more than twelve hundred net upvotes. The headline? “Wise words.”
[EDITED TO ADD: I stand corrected: On one previous occasion three months ago, the same collection of screenshots recieved more than 1900 upvotes and generated more than 500 comments, making it the 18th most popular post of all time in the Men’s Rights subreddit. Men’s Rights Redditors can’t get enough of this lady they don’t know anything about!]
The main debate going on amongst the regulars is whether or not the man-hating feminists in question are really lesbians or not. No, really. The regulars have all sorts of interesting theories on the subject. And by “interesting,” I mean “ignorant and homophobic and generally just … well, read it.”
I mean, even setting aside Idiopathic77’s rather limited understanding of the mechanics of lesbian sex (and sex in general, come to think of it), that’s just … weird. I guess this sort of discussion is what happens when you learn about feminism entirely from the Men’s Rights subreddit and YouTube trolls. It’s a bit like learning about Jewish people entirely from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and this clip from Curb Your Enthusiasm.
But where exactly is Whisper here running across all these “lesbian separatists” and heterosexual-women-turned-lesbian-for-political-reasons?
I mean, there was once upon a time in that wild and wacky era called “the seventies” a thing called “political lesbianism” that was based on the idea of lesbianism as a choice, but it got pushed to the fringes fairly quickly, because, you know, sexuality doesn’t really work that way.
Has Whisper developed some sort of time machine? Or do women just declare themselves lesbians when he starts talking to them because it’s a quicker way to get rid of him than giving him a fake phone number? That could also explain those 20% of Florida women who apparently gave Idiopathic77 the impression that they were lesbians of the phony, man-hating sort.
This may be the most unintentionally honest thing an MRA has ever said.
I don’t think Idiopathic77 understands any kind of sex. There’s a fairly significant number of gay men (20%, I think?) who don’t enjoy anal sex, which i’m sure is what he was referring to there. And plenty more who just top, for that matter.
I think his only idea of lesbian sex probably comes from porn aimed at straight guys, and, well, I just saw this video that sums up what actual lesbians think of that: (probably nsfw, nothing graphic is shown or really discussed but it’s pretty clear they’re talking about sex/porn and you can hear some moaning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PJvYprLDcRs
I don’t know what’s happening in Belgium, but I can’t say that feminist forums and discussions in my country seem particularly overrun by man-hating American lesbians…
Also, I think separatist going-lesbian-for-political-reasons – however rare it is; 20 percent of Florida’s population, really? REALLY? – is still a whole lot less toxic than the MRAs – this *is* actually Going Their Own Way, rather than demanding a place in the lives and beds of people they resent and despise.
@Karalora
Yes, I also thought: “Projection much?”
So the MRA conception of male sexuality includes objectification, harassment, and getting an erection at the thought of “fucking someone’s shit up”, and they still think it’s weird and unfair that women might be afraid of it.
I don’t know. I’m pretty sure the only reason I’m straight is because I hate men so god damn much. What other reason could there possibly be for me not being sexually attracted to Ryan Gosling?
But if they GTOW, how will men have sex with them? Misandry, I tell you!
@GreySky–seriously, if 20% of Florida’s women were lesbians (for whatever reason!), I’m pretty sure lesbians would be flocking there from all over the country. Seriously, those are really good odds when it comes to gay dating.
And apparently I was *really* serious about my last post. 😉
@AK
Yeah, it also crossed my mind that that must really be a great place for people who usually have to deal with a somewhat limited dating pool 🙂
Isn’t that just a summary of MGTOW with the genders reversed?
(Meta: Any chance the text of screencapped comments could be reproduced in alt tags? It would save on retyping the awful to quote it, and it’d help with accessibility too.)
@emilygodess
Ah but of course. Would it be entering tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist territory if I speculated, that the “fake lesbians” Whisper thinks he’s spotted might actually have been objects of *his* desire?
Whisper’s last paragraph really sums up the misogynist mindset: “She objects to being threatened with violence? Oh, no, I think she ‘protests too much’.”
Simultaneously creepy AND disgusting.
@AK
That video was hilarious.
And now I’ve been introduced to a new biphobic term. “Gold star lesbian” *mulls over that one*
Well… “Political lesbians” still exist. They didn’t completely die out in the seventies. Met some like sixteen-seventeen years ago (when I moved a bit in some weird anarchist circles), and they’re probably out there still.
But VERY rare.
Although, obviously, I live in Sweden, not Florida, where apparently there are tons of them.
I read an article from the New Yorker, I think by Ariel Levy, about political lesbianism/lesbian separatism for a sociology class. A few of the women involved were attracted to women, and it has the phrase “the lesbians that were actually gay”, which I still think is hilarious.
Unfortunately, the MGTOW have not figured out how to actually, you know, go, and find joy in each other in whatever way they can. (Possibly because, you know, MRAs: not very pleasant or friendly people.)
The words of that woman are so trite and repetitive that she might as well be reading a script written by an MRA YouTube commentator.
I mean, her words have it all: misinterpreting radfem critiques of rape culture (no one actually thinks that all sex is rape), accusing feminists of wanting to attack men rather than the patriarchy, and painting all feminists as lesbians who are “crazy and hysterical.”
The people Whisper is talking about definitely do exist, there are just a really tiny number of them. I sometimes read their blogs for basically the same reason I do yours: I can’t resist a good trainwreck.
Here’s a good example: http://factcheckme.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/moron-creativity/
I wish the Real Lesbians hadn’t resorted to misogyny (“those are strippers!”) or that “gold star lesbian” crap (I had only heard that used sarcastically; didn’t realize there were people who actually identified with it). Before that, it was pretty funny.
Another salient point, when we’re talking about political lesbianism/women who “go gay” after getting sick of misogyny, is that some of them are bi/pan women who have decided to date women exclusively for whatever reasons. But don’t tell the homophobic misogynists that giving up on men and actually liking women aren’t actually mutually exclusive, it might blow their tiny little minds.
You know, of all the things I would think a former sex worker/supporter of sex worker rights would go after… I would have thought it would be the attitudes some radfems have towards sexwork and people who make a living from it. Not the “they’re all (apparently utra feminine hysteria having) lesbians”.
Does anyone else wonder how the stereotyped too masculine butch can’t be bothered with men lesbian is also so feminine she suffers from hysteria? I know stereotypes often conflict, but really?
Emilygoddess, the idea that would really blow MRA minds is that there are women who not only have no desire for sex with anyone, but don’t want to have children or live with a partner. That there are people out there who are very happy to be completely single and without sex partners.
I read a quote from a Tumblr blog once, but can’t remember the exact wording:
“Bisexual men are generally assumed to be actually gay.
Bisexual women are generally assumed to be actually straight.
Both are generally assumed to be into men.
Coincidence?”
That just came to mind because of how the post screams of a form of egocentrism I see all the time, especially by misogynists and homophobes. Basically, that everything revolves around straight men. Lesbians are either actively trying to destroy men or can be “cured” by sex with a man. Sex (real sex) is impossible without a dick. The only true standard or attractiveness is if it pleases straight men. And working to make life better for anyone besides straight men automatically is considered being against straight men.
The “male ego” is so fragile, and breaking it is such a travesty according to certain guys. But IMO, there comes a point where a little crack would be beneficial. Maybe then they would learn some empathy and that the universe isn’t all about them.
SO much laughage.
Another good quote from the same thread:
So little self-awareness.
Also, according to AVfM, all feminists support Jodi Arias. It’s like our #1 issue. AVfM knows this is true, in spite of the fact that no mainstream feminist organizations, spokespersons, bloggers, etc. have written anything supporting her. (The lurkers support her in email, maybe?)
Idiopathic doesn’t seem to get how gay sex works either.
I would explain it to him, but that might encourage him to join my area of the fence.
Also, pleh on the ‘gold star lesbian’ shit. Most of my friends are bi these days, and it gives me very little patience for the gayer-than-thou.