You may recall that post a couple of days back in which I talked about Dean Esmay of A Voice for Men — the alleged “Men’s Human Rights” site that hosts an open call to firebomb courthouses and police stations in its “activism” section — suggesting that unnamed Man Boobz “minions” might stoop to impersonating female MRAs in an attempt to make the Men’s Rights movement look bad.
As I pointed out at the time, it is the official policy of Man Boobz that the Men’s Rights movement does not need any help making itself look bad, and will not get any from me or my, er, minions. All quotations from MRAs on this site, regardless of gender, are 100% real and not made up by my minions or by me.
Anyway, as if to prove once again that MRAs don’t need any help making fools of themselves, the FeMRA videoblogger known as TyphonBlue — a “senior editor” at AVFM, whatever that means — made some comments over on Reddit recently that I doubt will assist the Men’s Rights movement in its rather half-hearted attempts to improve its poor image.
The trouble began when Ms. Blue — real name, Asha James — proclaimed that there was no such thing as a radical MRA, and someone in the Men’s Rights subreddit challenged her on this assertion, bringing up, among other things, our anti-friendzoning friend from the other day:
But it was TyphonBlue’s response that really took the discussion to the next level of WTFery:
Open mouth, insert foot. Insert other foot. Then shove Paul Elam’s foot in there as well.
An amazing performance there from TyphonBlue, Authentic Female MRA.
(Thanks to the AgainstMensRights subreddit for pointing me to her quotes.)
@Maude LL and Nepenthe:
Another option: if this hormone thing an actual thing that happens to human AMAB people, then let’s come up with some sort of hormonal alteration or replacement or something that they can take if their partner has an abortion! You know, into their own bodies.
Deniseeliza
LOL, this is where it really gets crazy. To make a < show up and not attempt to render as HTML, you gotta type it in as <
Dvarg said:
Exactly. Frankly, I really do feel bad for guys who really want a baby that their partner chooses to abort.* However, that doesn’t mean that they should have the right to force her to have it. Her body, her choice, full stop.
I actually think that this is one of the many ways in which MRAs actually hurt the men they claim to be advocating for. Because the thing is, I am really leery of sticking up for men who are mourning the loss of a terminated pregnancy, because it is such a big MRA issue. It seems like most discussions about abortion are hijacked into “but what rights should the man have?” BS, so I don’t even like to talk about it anymore in most spaces. And that’s actually a really sad thing for men who are struggling to come to grips with their partner’s decision.
*assuming he isn’t abusive or whatever, and is basically a decent person who is mourning.
thecategoricalhousewife said:
I agree in a legal sense, but based on my experience, I do think that most couples do discuss the situation and the man does have input. It isn’t his choice, but he’s part of the decision-making process. Not in all situations, of course (especially one-night stands and abusive relationships, for good reason), but in most healthy long-term (or at least longish-term) relationships, the men do wind up having a good amount of input.
I don’t think that’s what you’re arguing, but I want to point it out because I just do not think the situation where a woman runs off and gets an abortion despite her boyfriend/husband’s wishes is all that common, which the MRAs seem to think. I volunteered at Planned Parenthood for years and I’d say that most women who came for abortions came with their partners or mentioned that he supported her decision. Not a scientific study or anything of course, but I just don’t think the man who strenuously objects and is devastated by his partner getting an abortion is really all that common–unless you’re looking at a population of abusers who relish the fact that a pregnancy often makes a woman dependent on the father. Oh, wait. We are talking about MRAs.
Plus, I’ve met men who knew that an abortion was the best choice (either for their partner who they cared about so supported in her decision, or for both people), but still mourned the loss of a potential child. The MRAs don’t seem to have much room for them though, probably because they’re not so interested in talking about how evil women are.
@Aaliyah
Me either, and I live here! Hope everyone’s okay.
Cis men cannot undergo abortion on account of the fact that they can’t undergo pregnancy. Does TyphonBlue not realize how obvious she’s making the fact that she believes men quite literally own the women they fuck here?
If men who feel that they own the bodies of the women who they’ve fucked find it burdensome to be forced to let go of that iron grip just enough to grant women some basic level of bodily autonomy then honestly? That’s too bad. Owning other people is illegal. Grow up and deal with it.
I’m pretty much out of patience with this shit.
@AK
I see your point about the pain of having your partner abort when you want to keep the child. However, OP’s argument, to have a woman who does not want an abortion be forced to get one if her male partner wants her to (I’m not sure who gets the ultimate decision in a lesbian couple)… I just can’t see any possible charitable angle to that one.
Oh, and regarding breach of promise laws…they actually made sense when women were dependent on men (and thus marriage) for survival. She might be being courted by 4 or 5 men, one proposes, she rejects the other, then the fiance breaks it off and she’s left without prospects and with a damaged reputation that will hurt her ability to get married in the future because it was often assumed that men, being so rational and level-headed, would only break an engagement for good cause. So he’d be doing her measurable harm by leaving her, not just hurting her feelings.
Plus, breach of promise laws were often as much about restoring her reputation as they were about financial damages. If he could prove that he left her for cause, in many areas he would be vindicated and not have to pay damages. So basically a successful breach of promise lawsuit was a way to prove in court that she hadn’t done anything wrong (like being unfaithful or whatever).
Also, yeah, they were never criminal, just civil.
Forced abortion…ghrmlblbblbmrrh…
Time for baby otters!
@Maude, I agree totally.
And don’t be silly, if a lesbian needed an abortion in MRA world, the sperm donor (even if he was a literal sperm donor, as in she got the sperm from a sperm bank or whatever) would still get to decide whether she got an abortion or not. Because you know, he’s a man and she’s a woman, so how could her decision override his?
OsirisFox said what the whole abortion thing is really about for MRA’s, though
Aaaand it’s back to the paper abortion nonsense again. Wah wah, they’re not allowed to abandon their own children, how unfair! Half of children are boys, by the way. Where is their compassion for all the boys abandoned by deadbeat dads in this paper abortion idea?
More in the “MRAs don’t need our help to look terrible” department, here’s a r/mensrights thread in which a bunch of MRAs decide that a story which clearly describes a rape is not rape. Trigger Warnings, ahoy:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ep0r9/woman_has_consensual_sex_with_man_changes_her/
Even the r/mr denizens who are willing to call the act described “wrong and a violation of her person” aren’t willing to call it rape. Most believe the story is a troll; apparently they find the idea that someone can withdraw consent while having sex just that outrageous.
Here’s the comment describing the story (again, TRIGGER WARNING):
http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/1eopg0/after_2_and_a_half_years_of_court_cases_it/ca2bnv5
If I had a partner who turned out to be more invested in a potential baby than he was in my health or wellbeing or choice about my body … I suspect he’d soon be an ex-partner.
The “paper abortion” horseshit makes me incandescent with rage.
But that’s the point. They don’t want women to have a choice. They want any woman they want to have sex with to be forced to have sex with them. That’s the whole point.
Which makes it all the more bizarre that FeMra’s are even a thing. Do women like Typhonblue, GWW, Erin Pizzey, etc. not realize they’re supporting a “movement” where if many of the members got their way, they would have to sleep with any man who wanted them? Do they rationalize it to themselves that only other women would suffer that fate, and not them? At what point does the “Maybe being a woman supporting a group of men who want women as sex slaves is not such a good idea” internal conversation happen?
I think you’re giving them credit for much higher self-esteem than they actually have.
I’ve actually seen them parody calls for compassion for abandoned kids by saying “WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDRENZ” hur hur hur.
@Tulgey, It’s not just r/mr that is being terrible. Everyone on the original AdviceAnimals thread is pretty terrible.
Apparently saying “no” or “stop” during sex just starts a clock ticking, but you must give a dude a reasonable amount of time to stop. “Reasonable amount of time” of course is whatever amount of time it takes for the guy to feel like stopping, because women don’t reason. They are so disgusting.
The “paper abortion” thing is especially ridiculous when you consider that they hate single mothers and women who receive government benefits to feed their families. So they want to be able to abandon a child if they want, but also want single mothers (and their children!) to suffer and starve?
Ah, hit “reply” too soon. I was going to add, “Why, it’s almost like they just want to be able to do whatever they want with no consequences!”
@becausescience
I think the answer is “yes”. Maybe because they assume they’ll be on “team-dude” if this happens (which it won’t, except maybe on Reddit Island).
Also, if anyone has an interest in the internal workings of the MRM, AVfM has an article up about what sounds like a messy split in MRA London. These kinds of internal messes are common in any organization with more than 1 person in it, of course, but it does sound like there is MUCH ego involved, unsurprisingly.
Here’s the link:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/a-very-british-coup/
Comments are interesting, and some of their “luminaries” are calling for the story to be taken down so it may not be up for long.
Yep, that’s what they want. And remember, half of those children are boys, so they can change the slogan “Compassion for men and boys” to be “Compassion for the tiny number of white, cis, heterosexual men who agree with all of the MRA talking points”.
A rape that lasts for a minute and ends with an apology is somehow not rape according to these people? WTF
I really regret reading that. Yet another reason for me to hate Reddit.
I’m no longer surprised by the fact that these guys frame things as “how much rape can I get away with?” rather than “how do I avoid raping people?”.
That’s probably because they either feel that only those other guys are rapists or think that rape is okay at least some of the time. Or both.