Hey fellas! While we’re talking about the evils of the Friend Zone and possible legal sanctions against the women who so often and so maliciously put us there — and while the women are distracted by that picture of Scrooge McDuck above — I’d like to warn you of another kind of Friend Zone you need to be wary of: the “Repair Friend” Zone.
I learned of this danger from none other than Warren Farrell himself, in the pages of his book Women Can’t Hear What Men Don’t Say (which amazingly does not have the subtitle “But It’s Not Like Angry Dudes On The Internet Are Going to Shut Up Any Time Soon”).
Here’s how old Warren explains it, perhaps exaggerating the innocence of the wily female Repair-Friend Zoners:
Single moms who rely on male friends for repairs — “he’s just a repair friend” — are often unaware that the man really isn’t sacrificing his Sunday afternoon in exchange for a Sunday night dinner. The truth is, if he’s making that type of sacrifice, it’s usually because he’s interested in her.
That’s right, ladies! Men never actually want to be just friends with you. Never. And when they act friendly, it’s just because they want to [insert weird creepy Warren Farrellesque euphemism for sex here]. Only instead of making a move on you they’d rather make a move on your car, and just sort of hope you’ll get the hint.
I’ve seen many single moms who have men who they claim are “just friends” work on their cars, do repairs, help them move. They think nothing of it. (Which says it all.) When she starts dating someone seriously, the “repair friend” feels hurt and her new boyfriend feels suspicious. And Mom feels caught between a rock and a hard place, so to speak.
Is Farrell making some sort of awkward boner joke here?
Anyway, for Farrell, this is somehow all the fault of women, and feminism, or misandry, or something.
This attitude rests on a deeper foundation. Just as women who are poor turn to the government as a substitute husband (in the form of welfare and AFDC payments), so women without husbands often unconsciously turn to substitute husbands, such as dads, “repair friends,”and male neighbors.
So, fellas, be careful out there. One moment you’ll be chatting casually over the fence with the former Mrs. Jones, and the next thing you know you’ll be in her basement buried deep in her washing machine trying to fix, I dunno, whatever is inside of washing machines that might need fixing, I’m not really very mechanical.
Come to think of it a female friend of mine had me change a light bulb the other day that she couldn’t reach. Granted, I don’t want to have sex with her, and also she’s fixed my bike on several occasions and sometimes brings me cake, but, still, I think I may have just been Light Bulb Friend Zoned.
So when dudes get together to help one another out for car repairs and moving they should all be required to engage in group sex in order to make sure the scales are balanced properly? There is this rather radical kind of solution Farrell might need to investigate it is called “I pay professionals for repairs I cannot do myself ” which weirdly enough men and women both do pretty frequently.
Yet another way that these idiots can’t tell the difference between ‘friendship’ and customer service or other transactional relationships.
Seriously, there are these things called “friends” and they help each other out. I ask for favors from my friends all the time, and they are free to say “no” if they want to. They are people, and being able to say “no” (without even giving me a reason) goes with the whole ‘being an autonomous human being’ territory. On the other side of those things, I do favors for my friends all the time. Whenever I can help one of them out, I try to do so. Like them, I am also free to say “no” whenever I want, and I do if I feel someone is taking advantage (expecting me to do work for free that I would normally be paid for, or asking me for favors all the time but always being ‘busy’ unless there is something they actively need from me, for example).
See, if you do favors for someone from time to time, and they also do favors for you from time to time, that’s a friendship. If you are doing favors for them and expecting to be paid (in sex or money or anything, beer and sushi as a “thank you” notwithstanding) you are not friends, and you are being fundamentally dishonest in attempting to get someone into “debt” to you. If you mind doing favors for people, just say no, or say that you have an hourly fee for whatever it is. Don’t do the ‘favor’ and then whine about it when you don’t get a payment you didn’t inform her the favor would cost.
…lets be fair,
Sadly enough, sex still offers *alot of men the external validation they need to justify their existence.
I’ve worked in family shealters and if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that pining for any individual who can’t return your affections or who’s solely fixated on their advancement is just plane stupid.
The sooner men stop pedestalizing these women the better.
This literally has nothing to do with the Farell quote
Right. Now how is that the woman’s fault that the guy “puts her on a pedestal?”
Friendship is doing things for each other. No man should be fixing cars for a woman without reciprocity. I wouldn’t be doing those things for guys. That’s like a guy asking you to move after knowing him one day.
This idea of expecting sex in return for simple favors like making repairs and moving things reminds me of porn, not normal human interaction.
The world these MRAs envision is truly disgusting. The idea of expecting sex in return for simple favors is bad enough; there’s also the very real possibility of misogynistic men manipulating women into having sex with them. I personally would be horrified if I had to live in a world in which I’m manipulated into doing sex acts just because the man helped me get something I couldn’t reach. I can only imagine how hard it would be to trust anyone in such a world. Normally I can just laugh at the absurdity of these MRAs, but this is honestly frightening for me to think about.
And the fact that they regard as exploitative women who refuse to engage in sex acts in return makes me feel sick.
FFS, so don’t pedestalize anyone. We don’t want anyone pedestalizing us, anyway. Just treat us like normal human beings.
And I don’t give a flying fuck if some men tie up their external validation in getting laid; it still doesn’t excuse their misogyny.
@budmin
Like, I know that whole ‘putting women on a pedestal instead of treating them like actual fucking human beings’ shit misogynists say they used to do, but how on earth is this related to the supposed repair friend zone? I mean, I guess it is kinda pedestal-y to think that all women are mind readers…that would be a cool power…
@budmin
Meaning what, exactly? What question is that pablum supposed to be a ‘reply’ to? How is any of this related to the topic at hand?
No one is arguing that people, that ANYONE, ought to use anything (sex, favors, whatever) to try to coerce the “affections” of anyone else.
The idea that the problem here is that “alot” of men are just doing favors for the wrong women is crap. The problem here lies with the transactional expectation, and it goes back to the same Nice GuyTM nonsense that women are indebted to men, on terms of the guy’s choosing, for any affection those guys choose to show them.
Incidentally, congrats Marie on your new computer, and yay for being back!
Look, I agree that there exist women who merely use men for doing repairs. Because in both genders, there are people who have “friends” whom they don’t really care about, but merely use for getting certain things done (free rides to places rather than calling a cab if the “friend” has a driver’s license and a car for instance, or getting one’s computer fixed for free if the “friend” knows computers and so on). That’s shitty. And one can always advise people not to be doormats and end up in the situation of such a “friend”. If your supposed friend only calls you when zie wants you to do something for zir, zie isn’t really a friend, and your better off without zir.
So yeah, nothing wrong with advising people (men as well as women) to avoid being used like that.
It becomes misogynistic when one claims that it’s typical female behaviour to use men like this, and throws a transactional view on sex into the mix.
@gillyrosebee
Sorry but Look at the contemp these metaphorical “Nice Guys” provoke. It makes you wonder if maybe accepting favors from these dudes makes women feel low. Like their time is being stolen by an opportunistic P*begger trying to play white knight. It’s just plain pathetic.
2 parasites can’t feed off each other.
BTW, there are some dudes dumb enough to give their time/money/labor to the nearest semi-attractive 22 year old with a problem. For what? Acknowledgement?
Budmin, i’m having a really hard time finding your point, if such a thing exists. Nobody said accepting favors makes them feel low. They said trying to use favors as a way to make people feel owed is manipulative. 😐
@Gillyrosebee
😀 Probably I should stop hogging the thread…just is excite. Thanks 🙂
Also, I so cannot follow budmin anymore. Like, what is his point?
They receive contempt because they are selfish assholes who think that being nice entitles them to intimacy.
Yeah, it’s not like a man could ever want to help a woman for her own sake. Men only think about themselves.
That’s a nice (read: demeaning) view of men you have there.
Also, the woman receiving help is not a parasite. Unless you think that anyone who receives help is a parasite. Just because she doesn’t feel obligated to fuck you in return for helping her doesn’t mean that she’s a parasite. It just means that she only wants help.
This reminds me of that time I was a parasite because I asked my brother to carry one of my heavy bags…
AND THEN DIDN”T CONTRIBUTE TO HIS COMPUTER FUND*
*yes, this is the replacement for owed-sex stuff with siblings, because i’m not going to touch incest. But my brother reeaaaaaalllly wants a new computer, so he’s saving up. However, he does not think every gesture that he does that benefits me means money for him. probably b/c he’s not entitled. 😉
@ budmin, Again, I ask wtf your point is, because you don’t seem to be able to communicate clearly.
About the only point I can find to agree with you on is that the Nice GuysTM are, in fact, parasites themselves.
I have friends I can count on for things as simple a dumb joke that will make me laugh on a bad day all the way up to sophisticated advice on complex problems. Accepting this help fills me with wonder for all the really cool skills my friends have. I’m happy to have their help and happy to help them when I can.
Nice GuysTM earn contempt because they can’t even do something as simple as hold open a door without expecting something in return and whining when people don’t fall all over them with gratitude. Of course accepting “favors” from these assholes has a cost: that is precisely the point. Nice GuysTM only do things so that others will feel indebted to them.
That’s how it is so easy to tell a nice person from a Nice GuyTm. If you are truly nice, you get your ‘reward’ just from being a decent human being to those around you and don’t expect or seek anything in return.
DAMN the block quotes!
Points? We don’t need no steekin’ points
Apparently, anyone who does not participate in the transactional view of human relationships is, by definition, a parasite, because they are not intuiting the heart’s desire of the person doing the favor and providing it without putting them on the spot by making them actually ask for it.
@Unimaginative Oh, noes! You has been attacked by the blockquote monster!!
I totally get your point about the errors. It was bad enough just to try to figure out what buddy was trying to say there in that verbal thrashing about…
@Fade _”They said trying to use favors as a way to make people feel owed is manipulative”
I fully support that comment. It’s wrong to manipulate someone with kindness just to get physical intimacy, but no one calls out these women for their use of flattery and ego stroking to get what they want either.
I hate that kind of parasitism in women & I hate the weakness in men that fosters it.
Taking men at their word is, apparently, misandry.