NOTE: I’ve closed comments on this post because it keeps attracting crankish comments from misogynists who agree with the misogynists I quote in the post.
Hey ladies! Have you ever wondered why so many men hate you? Well, you’re in luck, because on Reddit, another lady just like you has an answer. It’s because you suck. No, really. Men hate women because women are terrible. And not very ladylike, to boot.
Let’s join FleetingWish as she explains “Why Do Men “Hate” Us?” in Part 2 of her Who-knows-how-many-parts opus “Attracting Alphas,” which she has helpfully posted in the fPUAs subreddit, a forum apparently devoted to teaching “females” how to more effectively get picked up by alleged Alpha males.
FleetingWish starts off by distinguishing “misogyny” — in scare quotes — from bad things like racism:
[W]e cannot to fall into the common trap of lumping “misogynist” in the same category of “racist” and “homophobic”. The reason is they occur for entirely different reasons. Racist and homophobic people occur largely from lack of exposure. It’s easy to have misconceived notions of certain groups of people when you haven’t met any.
Obviously! For who in history were less racist than America’s antebellum slaveowners, white people who lived in close quarters with large numbers of black people and sometimes even fathered children with them via an ancient non-racist practice known as “raping your slaves.”
But this is not the case for women; men have met many, many women in their lives. Any “misogyny” that they may have developed (or lack thereof) has been created by their exposure to women, and those women have only confirmed their biases.
Huh. So if you retain your hate for a group of people even when you have had considerable contact with these people, this means your hate was justified? By this logic, then, slaveowners were justified in their racism, and Nazi concentration camp guards were justified in their antisemitism.
[O]n to the reason men “hate” us. There are countless complaints to be found, but they all seem to lead to the same core. They don’t see what value women can provide for them (outside of sex).
And how exactly is this the fault of the women, rather than a reflection of the rather limited imagination of the men in question?
When I first understood this, I felt disappointed and sad, because I want to feel that my presence makes a difference, and not that 50% of the population would be better off without me.
You didn’t ask: What the fuck is wrong with these guys who think that that the value of women can be reduced to what they provide men sexually?
But I wanted to find the truth behind the anger, so I asked myself two questions; “What are women providing for men in today’s society?” and “What should women be providing them?” (Or alternatively “What is it that women could provide that would make men see their worth?”)
Why would you assume there was “truth behind the anger” rather than, say, a stunted personality and a giant sense of entitlement? Why are women obligated to “provide” anything for men, apart from the basic human decency all people are generally expected to show one another?
I answered my first question by observing the world around me. We have a society where women are encouraged to behave like men. We are encouraged to be competitive, career driven, even to be brash and arrogant in order to get what we want.
None of these things are inherently male traits.
Also, we are told again and again, that not only should men not expect anything of us (not even common decency), but that we should leave any one who places any demands (or requests) on us.
Huh? I think Ms. Wish may be having imaginary conversations with those old villains the Straw Feminists.
The trouble with the first mentality is by acting like men, we run the risk of being second place to actual men. If a man wants to have a relationship of some kind with someone who behaves masculine, why would he seek a woman? … If he wants to seek out a woman, it’s because he’s seeking someone who behaves like a woman, and personifies feminine behavior.
Says you. Even setting aside all those who fall outside of, or otherwise confound, the traditional gender binary, there are plenty of straight cis men who have no problem with straight cis women whom you’d no doubt define as excessively “masculine.” Indeed, recent research suggests that men aren’t as intimidated by successful, high-earning women as the old stereotypes suggest. A recent report from the Brookings Institution noted that marriage rates amongst the top-earning women have been rising while those of lower lower-earning women have declined.
And why do you even care if other women act in a way that you’ve defined as “masculine?” If you want to act in a way you think is appropriately “feminine,” it’s your life, go for it. Let other people define “masculinity” and “femininity,” and their relationships with these concepts, how they want.
The trouble with the second mentality is that by not taking into consideration what men want from us, it takes away our ability to listen to their needs. Because men have needs, they have feelings, they have wants, and they have desires. And those needs are important, they are important for their basic happiness and fulfillment in life.
Uh, yeah. Women have needs, too. I’m pretty sure most successful long-term relationships are based on fulfilling both partners’ needs, not on forcing one partner into a “feminine” mold so as not to challenge the male ego.
The solution to both of these is actually the same. Be feminine. That’s what men are desperately craving from us. … Men don’t want a woman that they have to compete with, they compete with people all day long, at the end of the day they want someone who they don’t have to compete with.
In other words, if you’re better than him at Halo 4, go ahead and let him win. These sorts of dudes tend to have a bit of a temper.
The thing is, those men who “hate” us, they don’t really hate us, they desperately want to be able to love us. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across. And they’ve become so hurt, that they don’t know what else to do.
Uh, no, I’m pretty sure a lot of these guys really DO hate you. If you don’t believe me, I’ve got roughly 1200 posts in the Man Boobz archive that might provide some further illumination on this point — although, admittedly, some of the posts are about kitties, not misogyny. So maybe 1000 posts?
So, my challenge to anyone reading this is if you see these men on reddit, try to empathize where they are coming from. Instead of being angry at them, be understanding of them. Instead of defending yourself, defend them. Instead of telling them “you’re not like that”, show them you aren’t like that. Respond to these posts with something to the effect of “Wow, I’m really sorry that women you’ve come across have treated you so bad, I wish there was something I could do to heal that hurt you’re feeling.”
“I’m so, so sorry you think I’m a worthless bitch.”
By responding like this, you accomplish so many things. First is you are validating their concerns, second you empathize with their feelings, and third you show them that there are women who care (demonstrating to them that they might be wrong after all). You will see that if you do this, these men’s hearts will melt so fast for the opportunity to believe that there are women who care.
At least until they disagree with you about something, at which point you can expect all the old misogyny to erupt again, this time aimed directly at you.
Naturally, all the guys who for some reason were reading a subreddit devoted to the “self-improvement of women” thought that Ms. Wish’s advice to her fellow not-fellows sounded a-ok with them.
“As a male, this is spot on,” wrote one. “This actually made me get shivers. Thank you for existing. Thank you for caring.”
@alaisvex
I too can’t quite figure out why this two year old thread about a anonymous post on fPUA subreddit is so alluring to necrotrolls. Fleetingwish is a moderator of fPUA, but it only has around 4k subscribers and is definitely an odd little corner of Reddit. She’s a frequent poster on RedPillWomen and PurplePillDebate.
A very quick perusal of post history shows that she hasn’t changed in the last two years.
Here’s her answer to “Why are there so few RPW [RedPillWomen] subscribers compared to TRP?”:
Yeah, I don’t think that’s why women aren’t jumping at the chance to subscribe to a subreddit whey they can endlessly complain about women with other women.
Other fun FleetingWish quotes:
She’s definitely all in on the Red Pill life, which includes a boundless enthusiasm for arguing with non-TeRPer straw men.
Stop your lady prying, men have got this in a secret manly way.
She’s defending the official TeRPer 1-10 super scientific scoring system for measuring attractiveness BTW.
Let’s give the second post with far too many quotes another go.
Stop your lady prying, men have got this in a secret manly way.
She’s defending the official TeRPer 1-10 super scientific scoring system for measuring attractiveness BTW.
Beep Boop Bop Boo Bop Beep
She’s definitely an ideal employee for the health insurance industry.
Wait, what?
She also copy pastas her own “Why Do Men Hate Us?” in posts years later because it’s that darn good.
Finally, I discovered what may be the source of her endless enthusiasm for TeRPing.
Ooh la la, She’s nabbed one of TRP’s “most influential members”, what a lucky gal. She refers to him as “my captain” btw.
What the fuck is she talking about with insurance not covering pregnancy? Neonatal care is absolutely covered in the US as preventative care under the ACA. Since we’re worse than all the other wealthier countries when it comes to health care, I’d have to assume prenatal care is covered elsewhere too.
Or is she talking about fertility treatments?
@WWTH
She is talking about fertility treatments.
relationships is always haft to be 50 – 50 half on rent half on all support half on sharing if women only want 90 10 eveything there own way thennnnnnnnnnnnnnnn ehhhhhhh forgettabout
Hey Sandro if you really wanted to “forgettabout” you wouldn’t have bothered necroing a thread with your inane thoughts. Feel free to “go you’re own way” and don’t come back!
*your
Dammint
Can we just yell at them: “GTOW! GTOW!”?
Sorry, I guess it should be “GYOW! GYOWA!”
50-50 at all times is unrealistic. One person might get sick or disabled. Or laid off. One might to decide to go to school while the other works to increase earning potential later. A couple might decide one will be the bread winner and one will stay. And feminists are the ones who don’t have an issue with stay at home dad and breadwinner mom.
@Luzbelitx: Nah, I got this.
Ha! that’s much better!
Surprisingly accurate FleetingWish. If I wanted someone who acts like a man, I’d be gay.
I’m always amused by trolls who can’t seem to tell that David is quoting people and they (usually) aren’t actually here.
Most women out there these days really do stink. And most of the good old fashioned women of years ago were the best.
Who cares if men hate us. Men that hate women are not the kind of men I want to date anyway. I certainly do not sit around trying to be what men want or figure them out. I spend my time doing things I like to do. If they are interested in me then they are more than welcome to try and win my heart over. If not who cares.
Well the way i really look at it is that with much more women today that have become so very high maintenance, independent, selfish, spoiled, greedy, and very money hungry, well that certainly would do it for many of us Good single men out there that really Can’t meet a real Good one that isn’t like that today. Women have certainly Changed over these years which many of them have really Ruined us Good men already. And it is too bad that the Real Good Old Fashioned women are Not around anymore since they were so different and much Easier to meet in those days since many of us men would’ve met a Real Good One which we would’ve been all settled down by now with a Good Wife And Family that many of us still Don’t have today since we really are Not to blame.
I was the nicest gentleman a woman could ask for. After realizing that women of all backgrounds feel that treating a man well somehow minimizes their value, I have lost my desire to empathize with a woman’s needs. this isn’t because I don’t take a woman’s needs seriously, it’s because of woman’s needs have changed from needing to be comforted and understood to a demanding unreasonable childish behavior that all to well reminds me of a childs’s selfishness. Take care of women, that’s what men want. But we also have a basic need to be loved and appreciated. Instead, we tend to get the opposite.
Yep! I’m becoming increasingly disinterested in Western women on a daily basis. Selfish, materialistic and oh yeah, “I loved my husband but he wanted kids and I didn’t so I split from him and one week later I’m lying around in Sydney in bikinis, partying it up with my girlfriends, getting over my heartbreak.”
Wow, girl! You’ve shown such courage in moving on so quickly!
While I will say that I don’t agree that women need to be submissive, you took it way too far in the other direction. It completely invalidates what men might have legitimately experienced. The proper middle of the road, is understanding that what the main problem is. The one that “millennials” are having with many modern day “feminists”. In the words of FleetingWish, “…we are told again and again, that not only should men not expect anything of us (not even common decency), but that we should leave any one who places any demands (or requests) on us.”
This is a REAL problem that many…MANY men have run into. And that’s where all these stupid arguments, like the one in the article come from. Stop fighting pointless debates and just accept that there is a problem that can be easily fixed.
Other parts of what both you and FleetingWish have said are true. But please, let’s stop the extreme “YOU’RE COMPLETELY WRONG IN EVERY WAY” sort of bs.
@Zander:
As a man, none of my experiences have led me to believe that this is a particularly anti-male set of beliefs; and likewise as a millenial I have not observed my generation being especially hostile to feminism. Reddit exists, yes, but so does tumblr.
Which specific experiences have you had as a man which differ from mine? I’d like to offer a sympathetic ear.
Why does this thread get so many necro trolls? The post doesn’t say anything that any other random post doesn’t.
Are we over here now?
Some men in this thread are lamenting that women aren’t what they used to be.
Do you mean the young women circa 1967, when the Summer of Love was in full bloom? Those former (and perhaps current) hippies would be in their late 60s now.
Or the young women of the early 1970s, who were protesting the Vietnam war and joining a new movement called women’s liberation? Those pacifist feminists would be in their mid-60s now.
Or do you mean women whom you’ve never met? You’ve only heard about them? Say, from the Middle Ages? When women were being burned at the stake as witches? Maybe you’d like one of them.
Here’s the thing, guys: We’re not going back.
@Alex
Yes, how dare women go to the beach with their friends! I can’t think of anything more selfish!
…oh wait, yes I can. People who judge women negatively for not wanting the things they think all women should want. That’s incredibly selfish.
@AnHonestRealTrueAnswer and HowVeryTrue:
…Unlike men, who haven’t changed one little bit in the last hundred years. Why, my great-grandpappy used to spend hours on the telegraph key, whining in Morse code about lifting, porn, video games, being unable to get laid by HB10s, and the general terribleness of Western women, letting themselves get skinny and consumptive. The farm just took care of itself.
Also, I don’t think either of you have a very good grasp on what women were like, back in the day. I had some very formidable grandmothers and great aunts, and they wouldn’t have put up with your self-indulgent nonsense for one minute.