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On Reddit, a woman explains to other women why men hate them

Wonder Woman: Always alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.
Wonder Woman: Forever alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.

NOTE: I’ve closed comments on this post because it keeps attracting crankish comments from misogynists who agree with the misogynists I quote in the post.

Hey ladies! Have you ever wondered why so many men hate you? Well, you’re in luck, because on Reddit, another lady just like you has an answer. It’s because you suck. No, really. Men hate women because women are terrible. And not very ladylike, to boot.

Let’s join FleetingWish as she explains “Why Do Men “Hate” Us?” in Part 2 of her Who-knows-how-many-parts opus “Attracting Alphas,” which she has helpfully posted in the fPUAs subreddit, a forum apparently devoted to teaching “females” how to more effectively get picked up by alleged Alpha males.

FleetingWish starts off by distinguishing “misogyny” — in scare quotes — from bad things like racism:

[W]e cannot to fall into the common trap of lumping “misogynist” in the same category of “racist” and “homophobic”. The reason is they occur for entirely different reasons. Racist and homophobic people occur largely from lack of exposure. It’s easy to have misconceived notions of certain groups of people when you haven’t met any.

Obviously! For who in history were less racist than America’s antebellum slaveowners, white people who lived in close quarters with large numbers of black people and sometimes even fathered children with them via an ancient non-racist practice known as “raping your slaves.”

But this is not the case for women; men have met many, many women in their lives. Any “misogyny” that they may have developed (or lack thereof) has been created by their exposure to women, and those women have only confirmed their biases.

Huh. So if you retain your hate for a group of people even when you have had considerable contact with these people, this means your hate was justified? By this logic, then, slaveowners were justified in their racism, and Nazi concentration camp guards were justified in their antisemitism.

[O]n to the reason men “hate” us. There are countless complaints to be found, but they all seem to lead to the same core. They don’t see what value women can provide for them (outside of sex).

And how exactly is this the fault of the women, rather than a reflection of the rather limited imagination of the men in question?

When I first understood this, I felt disappointed and sad, because I want to feel that my presence makes a difference, and not that 50% of the population would be better off without me.

You didn’t ask: What the fuck is wrong with these guys who think that that the value of women can be reduced to what they provide men sexually?

But I wanted to find the truth behind the anger, so I asked myself two questions; “What are women providing for men in today’s society?” and “What should women be providing them?” (Or alternatively “What is it that women could provide that would make men see their worth?”)

Why would you assume there was “truth behind the anger” rather than, say, a stunted personality and a giant sense of entitlement? Why are women obligated to “provide” anything for men, apart from the basic human decency all people are generally expected to show one another?

I answered my first question by observing the world around me. We have a society where women are encouraged to behave like men. We are encouraged to be competitive, career driven, even to be brash and arrogant in order to get what we want.

None of these things are inherently male traits.

Also, we are told again and again, that not only should men not expect anything of us (not even common decency), but that we should leave any one who places any demands (or requests) on us.

Huh? I think Ms. Wish may be having imaginary conversations with those old villains the Straw Feminists.

The trouble with the first mentality is by acting like men, we run the risk of being second place to actual men. If a man wants to have a relationship of some kind with someone who behaves masculine, why would he seek a woman? … If he wants to seek out a woman, it’s because he’s seeking someone who behaves like a woman, and personifies feminine behavior.

Says you.  Even setting aside all those who fall outside of, or otherwise confound, the traditional gender binary, there are plenty of straight cis men who have no problem with straight cis women whom you’d no doubt define as excessively “masculine.” Indeed, recent research suggests that men aren’t as intimidated by successful, high-earning women as the old stereotypes suggest. A recent report from the Brookings Institution noted that marriage rates amongst the top-earning women have been rising while those of lower lower-earning women have declined.

And why do you even care if other women act in a way that you’ve defined as “masculine?” If you want to act in a way you think is appropriately “feminine,” it’s your life, go for it. Let other people define “masculinity” and “femininity,” and their relationships with these concepts, how they want.

The trouble with the second mentality is that by not taking into consideration what men want from us, it takes away our ability to listen to their needs. Because men have needs, they have feelings, they have wants, and they have desires. And those needs are important, they are important for their basic happiness and fulfillment in life.

Uh, yeah. Women have needs, too. I’m pretty sure most successful long-term relationships are based on fulfilling both partners’ needs, not on forcing one partner into a “feminine” mold so as not to challenge the male ego.

The solution to both of these is actually the same. Be feminine. That’s what men are desperately craving from us. … Men don’t want a woman that they have to compete with, they compete with people all day long, at the end of the day they want someone who they don’t have to compete with. 

In other words, if you’re better than him at Halo 4, go ahead and let him win. These sorts of dudes tend to have a bit of a temper.

The thing is, those men who “hate” us, they don’t really hate us, they desperately want to be able to love us. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across. And they’ve become so hurt, that they don’t know what else to do.

Uh, no, I’m pretty sure a lot of these guys really DO hate you. If you don’t believe me, I’ve got roughly 1200 posts in the Man Boobz archive that might provide some further illumination on this point — although, admittedly, some of the posts are about kitties, not misogyny. So maybe 1000 posts?

So, my challenge to anyone reading this is if you see these men on reddit, try to empathize where they are coming from. Instead of being angry at them, be understanding of them. Instead of defending yourself, defend them. Instead of telling them “you’re not like that”, show them you aren’t like that. Respond to these posts with something to the effect of “Wow, I’m really sorry that women you’ve come across have treated you so bad, I wish there was something I could do to heal that hurt you’re feeling.”

“I’m so, so sorry you think I’m a worthless bitch.”

By responding like this, you accomplish so many things. First is you are validating their concerns, second you empathize with their feelings, and third you show them that there are women who care (demonstrating to them that they might be wrong after all). You will see that if you do this, these men’s hearts will melt so fast for the opportunity to believe that there are women who care.

At least until they disagree with you about something, at which point you can expect all the old misogyny to erupt again, this time aimed directly at you.

Naturally, all the guys who for some reason were reading a subreddit devoted to the “self-improvement of women” thought that Ms. Wish’s advice to her fellow not-fellows sounded a-ok with them.

“As a male, this is spot on,” wrote one. “This actually made me get shivers. Thank you for existing. Thank you for caring.

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kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@SFHC:

Thank you so much for that. I honestly never knew where that “And then I was the _______” meme came from. And then I saw a presentation of the story using gmod on youtube. And I said I love this video. But then the youtube said “No kirbywarp, YOU are the video!”

And then I was youtube.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

Way back when it was first released (1968), I had several friends who swore by it as the best ever film to watch when stoned.

Nah, that’s Yellow Submarine. I’m pretty sure just looking at the DVD cover makes a bong and a bag spontaneously appear in your bedroom.

fromafar2013
9 years ago

I’m pretty sure just looking at the DVD cover makes a bong and a bag spontaneously appear in your bedroom.

No, that’s not quite right. You only have to look at the VHS tape cover. The DVD case you actually have to open first.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

@YouTube Kirby

The GMod version is awesome, but is my favourite:

So catchy. The song and the zombification.

Lea
Lea
9 years ago

Try looking up a little indie film, came out a while back, called Blade Runner.

Hells to the yes.

Hey bigboy,
You want me to tell you about my mother?

bigboy
bigboy
9 years ago

Mildly magnificent: finally somebody understands the brilliance of it. If you don’t understand, read about stanley kubrick, he’s a guy, but you’ll get over it.

Kirbywarp: Blade runner, I forgot about that one, that’s a good one. Hey, Kirby thanks for reminding me, I’ll give you Lil respect for that. But don’t get your hopes up.

This mammoth website, I thought it was about bigfoot, MA bad.

marinerachel
marinerachel
9 years ago

Still talking, huh?

bigboy
bigboy
9 years ago

Oh wait, it was Lea who said blade runner MA bad.

Lea: answering your question, about your mother, no.

fromafar2013
9 years ago

This mammoth website, I thought it was about bigfoot, MA bad.

http://i.imgur.com/HuFh6Ki.gif

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Hey, Kirby thanks for reminding me, I’ll give you Lil respect for that.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/rugrats/images/b/bd/Lilpro.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110128050845

?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

dang, oh well. That was supposed to be a picture of Lil from Rugrats.

Kinda… kinda ruins the joke to have to spell it out like that, but there you go.

Respect.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Oh wait, it was Lea who said blade runner MA bad.

Oh no. No no no. You do not take away my Lil respect. Once that Lil respect is given, it stays given.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
9 years ago

I can’t even remember any troll quite like big boy, he thinks we’re all straw feminists stuck in bad romantic comedy. We’re dateless women who have girls’ nights out where we cry over our love lives and then plot male gendercide.

I need to be recast. I’m obviously the sensitive soccer mom who realizes that love was there all along. Possibly with a violent librarian. Or a Basque shepherd.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

Lil respects is earn.

bigboy
bigboy
9 years ago

See, you should take lessons from your peers.
Let’s take: marinerachel
See, shes using her head.

“If you want the troll to go way, always ignore the troll, then the troll will go away.” But a lot of you couldn’t resist your emotional nature? Could you?

Bina
Bina
9 years ago

I must be a legend, here.

I’m straight and to the point, your paying attention.

comment image

http://funnyshit.com.au/img/pancake_bunny.jpg

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldrg1pAosN1qa6j6co1_400.gif

And yes, that last was a Donnie Darko reference. Fuckass.

Bina
Bina
9 years ago

“If you want the troll to go way, always ignore the troll, then the troll will go away.” But a lot of you couldn’t resist your emotional nature? Could you?

Nope…especially not the part of mine that loves to laugh at macho-posturing idiots.

katz
9 years ago

I’m going to be a heretic here and say, that whilst it is a masterpiece, “Silent Running” is a better film.

I maintain that Close Encounters is better than both.

katz
9 years ago

But seriously, I’d watched all these films by the time I was fourteen (except Dark City, which I saw in college). We’re not exactly talking forgotten treasures here.

bigboy
bigboy
9 years ago

Since Bina can’t get over the insults.

Seriously! Alright, Katz,I’m listening…..

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

I saw Dark City in high school. With a female friend. It was a girls night out!

I really love that Samantha Darko and Samara from the ring are the same actress.

bigboy
bigboy
9 years ago

Dark City was about the strangers, if your a bible banger, then the term “fallen angels,” should ring a bell.

The Strangers are the fallen angels, other names annunaki, aryans, tall whites, archons means “rulers,” ancient gods, the gods, but they call themselves “Vril.” Which also means gods, or” like god.”

Movies “knowing,” and Prometheus, has the same storyline as Dark City.

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

Insert Giorgio Tsoukolos meme here.

contrapangloss
9 years ago

He’s still here?

AWESOME! I’ll make some popcorn.

In the meanwhile, I just went swimming in the Ocean because it’s in the seventies. The ocean’s still cold, 40 or so, but the air’s so warm! Then I cut myself a little on the walk back up the beach because it was rocky intertidal and some mussels wanted revenge on me for walking on their kindred, apparently.

In the good movies front, I still have lots of love for Raiders of the Lost Ark, Serenity, Jurassic Park, and Top Gun. I have a huge soft spot for Jaws, even though I know it did way more damage to Chondrichthyes then I can really support.

Inception is also pretty cliche but I just adored the theme. I like to imagine the HORN CHORD DROP at random moments, because it makes the sound track of my life more interesting.

All of the Lord of the Rings movies had excellent soundtracks, so they’re in my folder as well.

Also, Spaceballs. Not for the music, though.

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