NOTE: I’ve closed comments on this post because it keeps attracting crankish comments from misogynists who agree with the misogynists I quote in the post.
Hey ladies! Have you ever wondered why so many men hate you? Well, you’re in luck, because on Reddit, another lady just like you has an answer. It’s because you suck. No, really. Men hate women because women are terrible. And not very ladylike, to boot.
Let’s join FleetingWish as she explains “Why Do Men “Hate” Us?” in Part 2 of her Who-knows-how-many-parts opus “Attracting Alphas,” which she has helpfully posted in the fPUAs subreddit, a forum apparently devoted to teaching “females” how to more effectively get picked up by alleged Alpha males.
FleetingWish starts off by distinguishing “misogyny” — in scare quotes — from bad things like racism:
[W]e cannot to fall into the common trap of lumping “misogynist” in the same category of “racist” and “homophobic”. The reason is they occur for entirely different reasons. Racist and homophobic people occur largely from lack of exposure. It’s easy to have misconceived notions of certain groups of people when you haven’t met any.
Obviously! For who in history were less racist than America’s antebellum slaveowners, white people who lived in close quarters with large numbers of black people and sometimes even fathered children with them via an ancient non-racist practice known as “raping your slaves.”
But this is not the case for women; men have met many, many women in their lives. Any “misogyny” that they may have developed (or lack thereof) has been created by their exposure to women, and those women have only confirmed their biases.
Huh. So if you retain your hate for a group of people even when you have had considerable contact with these people, this means your hate was justified? By this logic, then, slaveowners were justified in their racism, and Nazi concentration camp guards were justified in their antisemitism.
[O]n to the reason men “hate” us. There are countless complaints to be found, but they all seem to lead to the same core. They don’t see what value women can provide for them (outside of sex).
And how exactly is this the fault of the women, rather than a reflection of the rather limited imagination of the men in question?
When I first understood this, I felt disappointed and sad, because I want to feel that my presence makes a difference, and not that 50% of the population would be better off without me.
You didn’t ask: What the fuck is wrong with these guys who think that that the value of women can be reduced to what they provide men sexually?
But I wanted to find the truth behind the anger, so I asked myself two questions; “What are women providing for men in today’s society?” and “What should women be providing them?” (Or alternatively “What is it that women could provide that would make men see their worth?”)
Why would you assume there was “truth behind the anger” rather than, say, a stunted personality and a giant sense of entitlement? Why are women obligated to “provide” anything for men, apart from the basic human decency all people are generally expected to show one another?
I answered my first question by observing the world around me. We have a society where women are encouraged to behave like men. We are encouraged to be competitive, career driven, even to be brash and arrogant in order to get what we want.
None of these things are inherently male traits.
Also, we are told again and again, that not only should men not expect anything of us (not even common decency), but that we should leave any one who places any demands (or requests) on us.
Huh? I think Ms. Wish may be having imaginary conversations with those old villains the Straw Feminists.
The trouble with the first mentality is by acting like men, we run the risk of being second place to actual men. If a man wants to have a relationship of some kind with someone who behaves masculine, why would he seek a woman? … If he wants to seek out a woman, it’s because he’s seeking someone who behaves like a woman, and personifies feminine behavior.
Says you. Even setting aside all those who fall outside of, or otherwise confound, the traditional gender binary, there are plenty of straight cis men who have no problem with straight cis women whom you’d no doubt define as excessively “masculine.” Indeed, recent research suggests that men aren’t as intimidated by successful, high-earning women as the old stereotypes suggest. A recent report from the Brookings Institution noted that marriage rates amongst the top-earning women have been rising while those of lower lower-earning women have declined.
And why do you even care if other women act in a way that you’ve defined as “masculine?” If you want to act in a way you think is appropriately “feminine,” it’s your life, go for it. Let other people define “masculinity” and “femininity,” and their relationships with these concepts, how they want.
The trouble with the second mentality is that by not taking into consideration what men want from us, it takes away our ability to listen to their needs. Because men have needs, they have feelings, they have wants, and they have desires. And those needs are important, they are important for their basic happiness and fulfillment in life.
Uh, yeah. Women have needs, too. I’m pretty sure most successful long-term relationships are based on fulfilling both partners’ needs, not on forcing one partner into a “feminine” mold so as not to challenge the male ego.
The solution to both of these is actually the same. Be feminine. That’s what men are desperately craving from us. … Men don’t want a woman that they have to compete with, they compete with people all day long, at the end of the day they want someone who they don’t have to compete with.
In other words, if you’re better than him at Halo 4, go ahead and let him win. These sorts of dudes tend to have a bit of a temper.
The thing is, those men who “hate” us, they don’t really hate us, they desperately want to be able to love us. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across. And they’ve become so hurt, that they don’t know what else to do.
Uh, no, I’m pretty sure a lot of these guys really DO hate you. If you don’t believe me, I’ve got roughly 1200 posts in the Man Boobz archive that might provide some further illumination on this point — although, admittedly, some of the posts are about kitties, not misogyny. So maybe 1000 posts?
So, my challenge to anyone reading this is if you see these men on reddit, try to empathize where they are coming from. Instead of being angry at them, be understanding of them. Instead of defending yourself, defend them. Instead of telling them “you’re not like that”, show them you aren’t like that. Respond to these posts with something to the effect of “Wow, I’m really sorry that women you’ve come across have treated you so bad, I wish there was something I could do to heal that hurt you’re feeling.”
“I’m so, so sorry you think I’m a worthless bitch.”
By responding like this, you accomplish so many things. First is you are validating their concerns, second you empathize with their feelings, and third you show them that there are women who care (demonstrating to them that they might be wrong after all). You will see that if you do this, these men’s hearts will melt so fast for the opportunity to believe that there are women who care.
At least until they disagree with you about something, at which point you can expect all the old misogyny to erupt again, this time aimed directly at you.
Naturally, all the guys who for some reason were reading a subreddit devoted to the “self-improvement of women” thought that Ms. Wish’s advice to her fellow not-fellows sounded a-ok with them.
“As a male, this is spot on,” wrote one. “This actually made me get shivers. Thank you for existing. Thank you for caring.”
I can’t say no to a long dash. *suggestive eyebrows*
Well, obviously I’m a troll. “Duh”
Breaking news? You watching Rachel maddow?
Making you laugh? I do have a good sense of humor, now don’t I !
Jedi cats? Did you women invade the star wars male space, too. Star Wars, REALLY!
You know what? I like this one. I hope he stays. He’s got that feel of the trolls of yore, who a) made a lot of stupid mistakes, b) were congenitally unable to admit they’d made a mistake, no matter how obvious and unimportant, and c) also couldn’t just let something slide without replying and defending himself.
This is the stuff that great trolls are made of. This is what led to NWO’s cryillic alphabet and Pell’s Uncle Monty.
Katz, sure! You can keep him!
Just remember to take him for walksies once a day and do try to break his habit of using punch bowls as…um… sanitary facilities.
If loving Jedi cats is wrong, I don’t want to be right.
Oh dear, wouldn’t want women getting all up in your Star Wars.
Re: Star Wars is a Dude’s Place…
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep6/mothma1.jpg
… but the alliance against the empire was pretty much founded by two ladies and a dude. One of those ladies got to be the first leader of the new republic, too! Mon Mothma 4 Evah.
@ Alan
http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/5/21/15/anigif_enhanced-buzz-16993-1369165785-3.gif
Oh come on, nobody says anything that spacetime-tearingly moronic without their tongue firmly planted in their cheek.
Ha, bigboy’s trying to flirt with the comment section. Cute.
Isn’t that just MGTOW all over: “I’m going my own way … straight back to seek my revenge on the women!”, “I don’t need you … but pay attention to me when I necro threads on your feminist blog!”.
Totally alpha and not-at-all-desperate-for attention, dude. Totally.
Oh Bigboy, how did you know just what makes my ovaries throb? All my life I’ve been looking for a bad boy who is also a stickler for grammar. If only I could combine Khal Drogo with Mr Hand, I’d be set for life.
Alas, Big boy the love between us can never blossom. Because even though I’m completely convinced that you’re the baddest alpha to ever alpha, you just don’t have the grammar.
I guess my search continues.
This was quite a ride, going from first person singular to first person plural wasn’t too odd, but I was not prepared for the second person switcheroo, particularly since I have no idea who you’re addressing. Are you discussing the women you dated in the past, the posters here, feminists or women in general?
I also don’t understand your use of the term “white knight” either. I thought that was insult directed towards men who defended women online and has nothing to do dating. Aren’t women in their thirties after “beta buxs”? You’re mixing up key Red Pill claptrap terminology here.
This will make the WHTM Troll Hall of Fame, so congrats.
Dare I ask why women use grammar? Or does good grammar prove you’re a lesbian?!
Hey, Katz it takes one to know one.
Copy, paste, repeat!
You kittens have nothing interesting to say, do you. Well it’s better than women coming up to me and say:
“What’s, up?”
Or
“How’s it going”?
Somebody wants me to stay, “It’s doubtful.”
I like defending myself! What’s the problem?
Damn, another troll realizes we’re all cats in a David suit! Well, we tried to fool him.
No problems, bigboy. Your ignorance is giving us feminists great amusement. Please, feel free to carry on being a living example wrong and foolish here in comments section.
Big boy just used apostrophes properly? Does this mean he’s decided to try and attract us after all?
I suppose it would have been impossible to tax women in the places and times where we were unable to own property, so, in a way, feminism really has led to higher taxes for ladies. You win this one, Lenin!
I suppose it would have been impossible to tax women in the places and times where we were unable to own property, so, in a way, feminism really has led to higher taxes for ladies. You win this one, Lenin!
WWTH, unfortunately not, I see he skipped a question mark and went with a period on the 3rd sentence. Oh the negging!
Foolish?
Hmmmmm
You should’ve done the old, copy, past, and repeat. And say:
“Even Jesus Christ can’t lead fools, out of foolishness.”
Was that the one your looking for?
So how’s my grammar? It still sucks, huh.
You’ll get over it.
Ohes noes double comment I am sorry!
1. Unclear what you meant by that. A troll? An idiot? A wanker with a poor grasp of the meanings of words and concepts? If any of these, I’m glad to see you admitted it.
2. No he didn’t. Stalin knew nada about it. MEEP! Wrong again.
3. It’s Friedan, not Frieden. And so what if she was a communist? I know a few commies. They’re awesome. And one of them is 6-foot-8, too, which I’m pretty sure makes him a bigger boy than you.
4. Laughing at what? Unclear. Hopefully it’s yourself, because that’s who we’re all laughing at.
5. “Just about anything” means being laughed at and ignored by women. We don’t fucking care which way you’ve gone, as long as it’s far away from us.
6. MEEEEEP! Wrong again. We’re just whacking you around like the silly little tinfoil ball you are.
7. Well, that’s good, because I’m not attracted. Miggy-toes aren’t attractive, and that’s why you’re all so fucking bitter.
Can we sing Ultra Feminist to the tune of Ultra Twist?
I’ve been married since I was 20 and I’ve been a feminist for some time.
You couldn’t find a clue with a deerstalker and a magnifying glass.