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On Reddit, a woman explains to other women why men hate them

Wonder Woman: Always alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.
Wonder Woman: Forever alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.

NOTE: I’ve closed comments on this post because it keeps attracting crankish comments from misogynists who agree with the misogynists I quote in the post.

Hey ladies! Have you ever wondered why so many men hate you? Well, you’re in luck, because on Reddit, another lady just like you has an answer. It’s because you suck. No, really. Men hate women because women are terrible. And not very ladylike, to boot.

Let’s join FleetingWish as she explains “Why Do Men “Hate” Us?” in Part 2 of her Who-knows-how-many-parts opus “Attracting Alphas,” which she has helpfully posted in the fPUAs subreddit, a forum apparently devoted to teaching “females” how to more effectively get picked up by alleged Alpha males.

FleetingWish starts off by distinguishing “misogyny” — in scare quotes — from bad things like racism:

[W]e cannot to fall into the common trap of lumping “misogynist” in the same category of “racist” and “homophobic”. The reason is they occur for entirely different reasons. Racist and homophobic people occur largely from lack of exposure. It’s easy to have misconceived notions of certain groups of people when you haven’t met any.

Obviously! For who in history were less racist than America’s antebellum slaveowners, white people who lived in close quarters with large numbers of black people and sometimes even fathered children with them via an ancient non-racist practice known as “raping your slaves.”

But this is not the case for women; men have met many, many women in their lives. Any “misogyny” that they may have developed (or lack thereof) has been created by their exposure to women, and those women have only confirmed their biases.

Huh. So if you retain your hate for a group of people even when you have had considerable contact with these people, this means your hate was justified? By this logic, then, slaveowners were justified in their racism, and Nazi concentration camp guards were justified in their antisemitism.

[O]n to the reason men “hate” us. There are countless complaints to be found, but they all seem to lead to the same core. They don’t see what value women can provide for them (outside of sex).

And how exactly is this the fault of the women, rather than a reflection of the rather limited imagination of the men in question?

When I first understood this, I felt disappointed and sad, because I want to feel that my presence makes a difference, and not that 50% of the population would be better off without me.

You didn’t ask: What the fuck is wrong with these guys who think that that the value of women can be reduced to what they provide men sexually?

But I wanted to find the truth behind the anger, so I asked myself two questions; “What are women providing for men in today’s society?” and “What should women be providing them?” (Or alternatively “What is it that women could provide that would make men see their worth?”)

Why would you assume there was “truth behind the anger” rather than, say, a stunted personality and a giant sense of entitlement? Why are women obligated to “provide” anything for men, apart from the basic human decency all people are generally expected to show one another?

I answered my first question by observing the world around me. We have a society where women are encouraged to behave like men. We are encouraged to be competitive, career driven, even to be brash and arrogant in order to get what we want.

None of these things are inherently male traits.

Also, we are told again and again, that not only should men not expect anything of us (not even common decency), but that we should leave any one who places any demands (or requests) on us.

Huh? I think Ms. Wish may be having imaginary conversations with those old villains the Straw Feminists.

The trouble with the first mentality is by acting like men, we run the risk of being second place to actual men. If a man wants to have a relationship of some kind with someone who behaves masculine, why would he seek a woman? … If he wants to seek out a woman, it’s because he’s seeking someone who behaves like a woman, and personifies feminine behavior.

Says you.  Even setting aside all those who fall outside of, or otherwise confound, the traditional gender binary, there are plenty of straight cis men who have no problem with straight cis women whom you’d no doubt define as excessively “masculine.” Indeed, recent research suggests that men aren’t as intimidated by successful, high-earning women as the old stereotypes suggest. A recent report from the Brookings Institution noted that marriage rates amongst the top-earning women have been rising while those of lower lower-earning women have declined.

And why do you even care if other women act in a way that you’ve defined as “masculine?” If you want to act in a way you think is appropriately “feminine,” it’s your life, go for it. Let other people define “masculinity” and “femininity,” and their relationships with these concepts, how they want.

The trouble with the second mentality is that by not taking into consideration what men want from us, it takes away our ability to listen to their needs. Because men have needs, they have feelings, they have wants, and they have desires. And those needs are important, they are important for their basic happiness and fulfillment in life.

Uh, yeah. Women have needs, too. I’m pretty sure most successful long-term relationships are based on fulfilling both partners’ needs, not on forcing one partner into a “feminine” mold so as not to challenge the male ego.

The solution to both of these is actually the same. Be feminine. That’s what men are desperately craving from us. … Men don’t want a woman that they have to compete with, they compete with people all day long, at the end of the day they want someone who they don’t have to compete with. 

In other words, if you’re better than him at Halo 4, go ahead and let him win. These sorts of dudes tend to have a bit of a temper.

The thing is, those men who “hate” us, they don’t really hate us, they desperately want to be able to love us. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across. And they’ve become so hurt, that they don’t know what else to do.

Uh, no, I’m pretty sure a lot of these guys really DO hate you. If you don’t believe me, I’ve got roughly 1200 posts in the Man Boobz archive that might provide some further illumination on this point — although, admittedly, some of the posts are about kitties, not misogyny. So maybe 1000 posts?

So, my challenge to anyone reading this is if you see these men on reddit, try to empathize where they are coming from. Instead of being angry at them, be understanding of them. Instead of defending yourself, defend them. Instead of telling them “you’re not like that”, show them you aren’t like that. Respond to these posts with something to the effect of “Wow, I’m really sorry that women you’ve come across have treated you so bad, I wish there was something I could do to heal that hurt you’re feeling.”

“I’m so, so sorry you think I’m a worthless bitch.”

By responding like this, you accomplish so many things. First is you are validating their concerns, second you empathize with their feelings, and third you show them that there are women who care (demonstrating to them that they might be wrong after all). You will see that if you do this, these men’s hearts will melt so fast for the opportunity to believe that there are women who care.

At least until they disagree with you about something, at which point you can expect all the old misogyny to erupt again, this time aimed directly at you.

Naturally, all the guys who for some reason were reading a subreddit devoted to the “self-improvement of women” thought that Ms. Wish’s advice to her fellow not-fellows sounded a-ok with them.

“As a male, this is spot on,” wrote one. “This actually made me get shivers. Thank you for existing. Thank you for caring.

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emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
10 years ago

are Random Caps the new tWo-Dot Ellipsis? I Must know.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
10 years ago

Sometimes, Jason, it turns out to be you, not them.

Joe
Joe
10 years ago

What a good read…Not this article but the article it linked. This article is trash.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
10 years ago

Ooh, sick burn, Joe!

Jennifer
Jennifer
10 years ago

feminism? Liberalism / socialism? which side are any of us on. yikes! Being single is now deadly. wtf? love lost as i see it. sad.

James
James
9 years ago

Well it is Fact, Most women nowadays really do Stink.

MRAIsWinning
MRAIsWinning
9 years ago

Another hamfisted attempt to pick apart and discredit (through mockery) a very valid and actually irrefutable point.

This blog is boring.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
9 years ago

This would be the Charlie Sheen definition of winning (ie. making an ass of yourself in public), right?

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

I was hoping a comment made by someone with such an amazing username as MRAIsWinning would have made a far more amusing comment for us to mock. Come on dude, do better.

grumpyoldnurse
9 years ago

Hey, look! James, Jennifer, Joe, and Jason all think wOmeN Stink!

Did MRAIsWinning miss the memo about J names and weird capital letter usage?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
9 years ago

Well my name is Julie and I think women smell lovely.

shadethedruid
9 years ago

MRAIsWinning might want to start checking a dictionary before they post, looks like they missed a H and accidentally included an extra N in their username. How embarrassing.

grumpyoldnurse
9 years ago

There’s one in every crowd, cassandrakitty! Glad it was you, this time 🙂

To be fair, my name’s Janet, and I think some women smell lovely, some stink, and most just smell like large, bipedal mammals.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
9 years ago

My cousin Jane thinks that James needs to stop bogarting all the capitals. Learn to share, dude.

grumpyoldnurse
9 years ago

But, if he doesn’t Bogart the capitals, however will anyone know he is Serious when he mAkes a PoiNt!!!!!11!!!!?!!!!eleventy!???

Shiraz
Shiraz
9 years ago

What’s that, four handles in one thread? The word “stink” is capitalized in one. Is there some code I’m missing?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
9 years ago

Not sure if it’s a code or if he just spilled Mountain Dew on his keyboard and some of the keys are stuck.

Shiraz
Shiraz
9 years ago

Or just plain old butter fingers.

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

Now I have Just a Friend by Biz Markie stuck in my head.

Specifically this lyric.

Cause I’ve got friends and that’s a fact like Agnes, Agatha, Jermaine, and Jack.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
9 years ago

And now it’s worming its way into my brain too. Curse you.

Scott
Scott
9 years ago

What, men don’t like angry women who make blogs to mock them? Who would have thought?

sparky
sparky
9 years ago

And yet, the person who writes & owns this blog is a man. Fail, Scott. Major fail.

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

Yet, Scott probably thinks we do like and wish we could impress the angry misogynists that David writes about.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
9 years ago

Aren’t you heartbroken that Scott doesn’t want to date you, David?

grumpyoldnurse
9 years ago

No, Scott. We don’t mock men here. We mock misogynists.

Sorry if you can’t see the difference.

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