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a woman is always to blame alpha males antifeminism gender policing ladies against women literal nazis misogyny PUA reactionary bullshit reddit straw feminists

On Reddit, a woman explains to other women why men hate them

Wonder Woman: Always alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.
Wonder Woman: Forever alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.

NOTE: I’ve closed comments on this post because it keeps attracting crankish comments from misogynists who agree with the misogynists I quote in the post.

Hey ladies! Have you ever wondered why so many men hate you? Well, you’re in luck, because on Reddit, another lady just like you has an answer. It’s because you suck. No, really. Men hate women because women are terrible. And not very ladylike, to boot.

Let’s join FleetingWish as she explains “Why Do Men “Hate” Us?” in Part 2 of her Who-knows-how-many-parts opus “Attracting Alphas,” which she has helpfully posted in the fPUAs subreddit, a forum apparently devoted to teaching “females” how to more effectively get picked up by alleged Alpha males.

FleetingWish starts off by distinguishing “misogyny” — in scare quotes — from bad things like racism:

[W]e cannot to fall into the common trap of lumping “misogynist” in the same category of “racist” and “homophobic”. The reason is they occur for entirely different reasons. Racist and homophobic people occur largely from lack of exposure. It’s easy to have misconceived notions of certain groups of people when you haven’t met any.

Obviously! For who in history were less racist than America’s antebellum slaveowners, white people who lived in close quarters with large numbers of black people and sometimes even fathered children with them via an ancient non-racist practice known as “raping your slaves.”

But this is not the case for women; men have met many, many women in their lives. Any “misogyny” that they may have developed (or lack thereof) has been created by their exposure to women, and those women have only confirmed their biases.

Huh. So if you retain your hate for a group of people even when you have had considerable contact with these people, this means your hate was justified? By this logic, then, slaveowners were justified in their racism, and Nazi concentration camp guards were justified in their antisemitism.

[O]n to the reason men “hate” us. There are countless complaints to be found, but they all seem to lead to the same core. They don’t see what value women can provide for them (outside of sex).

And how exactly is this the fault of the women, rather than a reflection of the rather limited imagination of the men in question?

When I first understood this, I felt disappointed and sad, because I want to feel that my presence makes a difference, and not that 50% of the population would be better off without me.

You didn’t ask: What the fuck is wrong with these guys who think that that the value of women can be reduced to what they provide men sexually?

But I wanted to find the truth behind the anger, so I asked myself two questions; “What are women providing for men in today’s society?” and “What should women be providing them?” (Or alternatively “What is it that women could provide that would make men see their worth?”)

Why would you assume there was “truth behind the anger” rather than, say, a stunted personality and a giant sense of entitlement? Why are women obligated to “provide” anything for men, apart from the basic human decency all people are generally expected to show one another?

I answered my first question by observing the world around me. We have a society where women are encouraged to behave like men. We are encouraged to be competitive, career driven, even to be brash and arrogant in order to get what we want.

None of these things are inherently male traits.

Also, we are told again and again, that not only should men not expect anything of us (not even common decency), but that we should leave any one who places any demands (or requests) on us.

Huh? I think Ms. Wish may be having imaginary conversations with those old villains the Straw Feminists.

The trouble with the first mentality is by acting like men, we run the risk of being second place to actual men. If a man wants to have a relationship of some kind with someone who behaves masculine, why would he seek a woman? … If he wants to seek out a woman, it’s because he’s seeking someone who behaves like a woman, and personifies feminine behavior.

Says you.  Even setting aside all those who fall outside of, or otherwise confound, the traditional gender binary, there are plenty of straight cis men who have no problem with straight cis women whom you’d no doubt define as excessively “masculine.” Indeed, recent research suggests that men aren’t as intimidated by successful, high-earning women as the old stereotypes suggest. A recent report from the Brookings Institution noted that marriage rates amongst the top-earning women have been rising while those of lower lower-earning women have declined.

And why do you even care if other women act in a way that you’ve defined as “masculine?” If you want to act in a way you think is appropriately “feminine,” it’s your life, go for it. Let other people define “masculinity” and “femininity,” and their relationships with these concepts, how they want.

The trouble with the second mentality is that by not taking into consideration what men want from us, it takes away our ability to listen to their needs. Because men have needs, they have feelings, they have wants, and they have desires. And those needs are important, they are important for their basic happiness and fulfillment in life.

Uh, yeah. Women have needs, too. I’m pretty sure most successful long-term relationships are based on fulfilling both partners’ needs, not on forcing one partner into a “feminine” mold so as not to challenge the male ego.

The solution to both of these is actually the same. Be feminine. That’s what men are desperately craving from us. … Men don’t want a woman that they have to compete with, they compete with people all day long, at the end of the day they want someone who they don’t have to compete with. 

In other words, if you’re better than him at Halo 4, go ahead and let him win. These sorts of dudes tend to have a bit of a temper.

The thing is, those men who “hate” us, they don’t really hate us, they desperately want to be able to love us. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across. And they’ve become so hurt, that they don’t know what else to do.

Uh, no, I’m pretty sure a lot of these guys really DO hate you. If you don’t believe me, I’ve got roughly 1200 posts in the Man Boobz archive that might provide some further illumination on this point — although, admittedly, some of the posts are about kitties, not misogyny. So maybe 1000 posts?

So, my challenge to anyone reading this is if you see these men on reddit, try to empathize where they are coming from. Instead of being angry at them, be understanding of them. Instead of defending yourself, defend them. Instead of telling them “you’re not like that”, show them you aren’t like that. Respond to these posts with something to the effect of “Wow, I’m really sorry that women you’ve come across have treated you so bad, I wish there was something I could do to heal that hurt you’re feeling.”

“I’m so, so sorry you think I’m a worthless bitch.”

By responding like this, you accomplish so many things. First is you are validating their concerns, second you empathize with their feelings, and third you show them that there are women who care (demonstrating to them that they might be wrong after all). You will see that if you do this, these men’s hearts will melt so fast for the opportunity to believe that there are women who care.

At least until they disagree with you about something, at which point you can expect all the old misogyny to erupt again, this time aimed directly at you.

Naturally, all the guys who for some reason were reading a subreddit devoted to the “self-improvement of women” thought that Ms. Wish’s advice to her fellow not-fellows sounded a-ok with them.

“As a male, this is spot on,” wrote one. “This actually made me get shivers. Thank you for existing. Thank you for caring.

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contrapangloss
6 years ago

I do most of my movie watching with my sister. And our childhood best friend. Or with my best friend when we’re in the same town, from the comfort of netflix… It’s essentially a “Girl’s Night In”

bigboy
bigboy
6 years ago

Oops I revealed the nerdy side….
Because you were running out of fuel for the fire.

I’m talking about classics you give me lord of the rings?

Jurassic Park? What are you? 5 year old. Really!

Alright, you lost my interest, forget about the popcorn.

The troll is now leaving.

Viscaria
Viscaria
6 years ago

This flounce: will he stick it????

The answer, of course, is no way will he stick it.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

You didn’t get the mother reference.
Priceless.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Yes, you revealed the Nerdy Side of the Force! Here, have your honorary glowstick of power!

Some people just don’t appreciate some gorgeous musical scores.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

That might have been the saddest troll flounce I’ve ever seen. Usually they don’t get into negative numbers until they fail to stick, but I think this deserves a -1/10

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Or some amazing special effects. Seriously. Jurassic Park came out when I was a baby, but the dinosaurs in it are far more realistic and amazing than movies made in my teens. Well, even if the velociraptors were more utahraptor-y

Clash of the Titans, I’m looking at you. Terrible special effects. Not even the Pegasus could redeem you…

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Were we just batting around a kid? He sounded like he only knew of women and relationships from TV and manureosphere tropes. I hope not. I’d kinda feel bad about laughing at a someone so messed up so young.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I love the score on LOTR. It makes the movies IMO. My favorite might be the introduction to Rivendell.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I don’t know why he thinks he revealed our nerd tendencies. Those have been displayed prominently all over the site on countless threads.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

The troll is now leaving.

FINALLY! You learned the TRUE meaning of “going your own way”. Don’t let the door hit your — oh what the hell, go ahead and let it hit you where your mama done split you. And don’t come back now, y’hear?

contrapangloss
6 years ago

WWTH, Oh yes that Evenstar theme! My fav is the Rohan theme, though. It just nestles and mixes so well with the Three Hunter’s theme.

That haunting strings mixing with the horns is just… Howard Shore, you genius. You and John Williams. Love you both.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

contrapangloss ,
Cool. I would love to swim in the ocean again. *sigh*
We went to a music festival. We ate Bar-B-Q, watched fireworks and listened to a live band. It was storming today but tonight it was clear and breezy. I bought my daughter a T-shirt with a part cat part octopus monster on it. The artist called it Catthulu.
The artist and the lead singer of the band were women. Misandry!

katz
6 years ago

Clash of the Titans, I’m looking at you. Terrible special effects. Not even the Pegasus could redeem you…

HOW DARE YOU INSULT RAY HARRYHAUSEN oh you’re talking about the new one aren’t you

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
6 years ago

I rather like Donnie Darko. I know a lot of people call it pretentious and hard to follow but I still quite like it.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Yes, Katz. The new one. Of sads.

I watched the newest 300 with a bunch of the career firefighters, before I got hired. The CGI for the horses was awful.

…and it suffered a severe lack of plot. And excessive gore. Kind of fake looking excessive gore, but way over the top. Even the paramedics looked a little ooked out… Is it weird that I was most disappointed by the horses, though? I know people were being stabbed and all, but horses don’t move like that. They don’t.

Um, I should go sort out my priorities again…

brooked
brooked
6 years ago

Silent Running was an inspiration for MST3k, which alone makes it’s awesome.

I liked Dark City more when it was called Fritz Lang’s Metropolis. Zing.

Wow, that did not age well: E.T.

Underrated, deserving of love, not kidding: Contact (1997)

Best monster movie ever, probably: The Host (2006)

Has well earned it’s cult classic status: Brazil, and to a lesser extent Galaxy Quest, and to a more lesser extent Gattica

Better than Brazil? No, but nearly there: 12 Monkeys

Best of the new millennium: Children of Men

These are cult classics, right? Please say yes: Sunshine (2007), Moon (2009)

Freaked me out as kid, still can freak me out: Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978), The Thing (1982)

Best way to out smug academic Kubrick fans: Solaris (1972)

Arguably better than 2001:
Blade Runner

I heart mostest of all: Alien & Aliens

brooked
brooked
6 years ago

Darn, I missed the flounce while typing all that crap out on my phone.

katz
6 years ago

Seriously, nobody disses Ray Harryhausen when I’m around. NOBODY.

brooked
brooked
6 years ago

You didn’t get the mother reference.
Priceless.

I’m guessing he’s less familiar with Blade Runner than he would like to admit. He also seems to have deep seated anger issues involving Jurassic Park.

Moocow
Moocow
6 years ago

@booked

Brazil is awesome, probably my favorite dystopic society. I understood most of it but what was the deal with that angel warrior thing?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I can’t decide if my favorite monster movie is Alien or The Descent. I’ve never been a big Jaws fan. It’s fun but not scary to me. Maybe because I’m very landlocked. I’m a bit claustrophobic and both Alien and Descent very much play on the fear of enclosed spaces. That’s probably why I find them frightening.

I think my favorite alien invasion movie is the 1970s Invasive of the Body Snatchers. Although, I admit to a love of Independence Day in all its cheesy glory.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

“The troll is now leaving”
http://youtu.be/usfiAsWR4qU

brooked
brooked
6 years ago

Discerning Krakens agree with Katz.

http://dmpworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/53-kraken.jpg

The Clash of the Titans remake definitely rustled my jimmies by mocking Bubo the owl while being a vastly inferior film. Not even Lich-like Djinn riding scorpions could save that film, which is really saying something.

@Moocow

I thought it was a dream sequence where we see Sam’s heroic fantasies and/or delusions play out. I really need to watch Brazil again, it’s been ages since I watched it.

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
6 years ago

@WWTH

(Possible spoilers for The Descent)

Isn’t it more like a psychological thriller because it was all in that one woman’s head? I can’t say I remember it offhand. It wouldn’t necessarily be a monster flick if that’s true?

(End Spoilers)

katz
6 years ago

I liked Dark City more when it was called Fritz Lang’s Metropolis. Zing.

Zing, except…what did they have in common other than being about cities? And featuring Chosen Ones? Blade Runner is the more obvious target.

Catalpa
Catalpa
6 years ago

And of course, me being a fool to walk in on your party, and how 90% of all men should be extinct.

Of ALL men? Well, technically speaking, only about 7% of all the people who have ever been born are alive today.

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx

So, yeah, about 93% of all men and all women are dead as of this moment. Whether or not they SHOULD be could be argued, but the world would be a pretty damn crowded place with 100 billion undying human beings on it…

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

It’s meant to be ambiguous. The viewer decides. Since monsters cam be metaphorical, it doesn’t make a difference to me. Still a monster movie either way.

I also enjoy that it’s misandry. The only man in the entire movie (besides me crawlers) dies before the opening credits. Plus, all the women are pretty bad ass.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Oops, that was supposed to be a reply to Banana Jackie Cake.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Oh, and talking of the Alien franchise, I wonder if any of the super libertarian dudebros who like those movie have grasped that there’s some quite anti corporate messaging in there. The corporation is definitely the biggest villain. Not the xenomorphs. But hey, space and violence, therefore acceptable.

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
6 years ago

@WWTH

From what I remember it, that seems right. I really should catch it again sometime.

And, yeah, corporation definitely the big bad in Alien franchise. If those assholes would just fucking let Ripley kill those aliens and keep them dead instead of trying to preserve them for money and shit, the movie franchise could have stopped before Alien 3…

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/whaaa.gif

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I did just watch Alien 3 for the first time in years and realized it took place on a basically an MGTOW colony.

brooked
brooked
6 years ago

@katz

You’re correct, Dark City has numerous obvious influences including Metropolis, Blade Runner, City of Lost Children, Hellraiser and even Batman. I thought the director swiped shots from other, better movies so often that the film as a whole felt derivative. It’s not a bad movie, it just didn’t seem to transcend it’s many influences. Honestly, I only saw it once when it came out, so this assessment could be both wrong and unfair.

katz
6 years ago

Dark City didn’t impress me overmuch, but it contained an automat and I can’t really dislike a movie that contains an automat.

Lady Mondegreen
Lady Mondegreen
6 years ago

@ Alan

Of course, if you’re into the kinky stuff, go with an Oxford Comma.

Oh baby.

I’ll be in my bunk.

Lady Mondegreen
Lady Mondegreen
6 years ago

@ isidore13

What are chick flicks?

Kill Bill, Vols. 1 and 2.

katz
6 years ago

Hey, if we actually are talking about wildly-underwatched gems of sci-fi: Ink. Similar in tone to Dark City, but so much more creative and visually fascinating. It’s like a visionary’s early student film (which it may well turn out to be).

Lady Mondegreen
Lady Mondegreen
6 years ago

I am so stealing “Pacific Rimjob” for my trivia team (we have a new name every week.)

contrapangloss
6 years ago

I just find it hilarious that of all things that could possibly drive our drive by off, he chose me saying Jurassic Park was a classic and LOTR had an amazing soundtrack as as the two true horrors of WHTM.

I’m still kind of chuckling.

“OH NOES IT’S DINOSAURS! HELP!”

http://media.giphy.com/media/11OmKcakyXkube/giphy.gif

katz
6 years ago

Jurassic Park was a classic and LOTR had an amazing soundtrack

Surely the two least controversial opinions in the history of film.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Oh, and a low budget indie Sci fi everyone needs to see is Attack the Block. That movie is fantastic and never gets enough love.

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

Alan

whilst it is a masterpiece, “Silent Running” is a better film.

I’d agree. Though I remember that when the kids were small they and their cousins watched it because my parents thought it was “nice” with the cute little robots. … Get to the end and they’ve got sobbing children left right and centre.

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
6 years ago

Random sci fi movie opinion: Mars Attacks! is great. Also happens to be one of my fav Burton films, up there with the Batman films (minus Batman Forever) and Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure.

Misha
6 years ago

Oh, and a low budget indie Sci fi everyone needs to see is Attack the Block.

YES! I still treasure the copy I received for my birthday.

Also, Cockneys vs Zombies is another example of low-budget awesomeness that often gets overlooked. Even in the ‘zombie genre.

katz
6 years ago

And how can anyone forget Banlieue 13? I discovered it when someone on my college mailing list linked to this scene and said “I have no idea what this is from, but it’s awesome!”

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
6 years ago

@Misha

One of a newer zombie film I saw recently and liked was ZMD: Zombies of Mass Destruction. I think I saw it on Sundance or something a few years ago? Don’t remember exactly. It’s both scary and funny.

(Spoilers)

Most of the racist and homophobic people die which is just peachy in my book.

Spindrift
Spindrift
6 years ago

@fruitloopsie “We really need a Hall of Trolls.”

Or a bridge of trolls, trolls like to hide under bridges where it’s dark.

@WWTH “I think my favorite alien invasion movie is the 1970s Invasive of the Body Snatchers. Although, I admit to a love of Independence Day in all its cheesy glory.”

Think my favorite alien invasion movie is “They Live”, if that one counts as an invasion.
Probably cause of the social commentary of the film.

I was thinking of people asking questions on the red pill reddit recently, and now all this talk of sci-fi made me think of this scene. If you replace the word human with woman and the word Ro-Man with man.

“Yes! To be like the wo-man! To laugh! Feel! Want! Why are these things not in the plan?”

Misha
6 years ago

ZMD: Zombies of Mass Destruction.

That’s my weekend sorted, cheers Banana Jackie :).

ZOMG.

Kootiepatra
6 years ago

I only just caught up on this necro, and am so profoundly amused by the sequence of what I just read:

– Troll: [Many non-sequiturs]
– Mammotheers: …lolwut. [Hilarious gifs]
– Troll: All your pointing and laughing means that you are either enraged by or attracted to me.
– Mammotheers: …lolwut. [More hilarious gifs]
– Troll: AH! You are fake geeks! Also this was a geek test the whole time. Later, losers.
– Mammotheers: OK. [Continue to geek out about geeky subjects long after troll flounce is over]

Egads I love these comment sections. You people are awesome.

gilshalos
6 years ago

Solaris (1972 – accept no Clooney versions) – I love that movie!

@mildlymagnificent – Oh yes. I watched Silent Running at about 12 and was upset and angry over the botdeath as well.