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On Reddit, a woman explains to other women why men hate them

Wonder Woman: Always alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.
Wonder Woman: Forever alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.

NOTE: I’ve closed comments on this post because it keeps attracting crankish comments from misogynists who agree with the misogynists I quote in the post.

Hey ladies! Have you ever wondered why so many men hate you? Well, you’re in luck, because on Reddit, another lady just like you has an answer. It’s because you suck. No, really. Men hate women because women are terrible. And not very ladylike, to boot.

Let’s join FleetingWish as she explains “Why Do Men “Hate” Us?” in Part 2 of her Who-knows-how-many-parts opus “Attracting Alphas,” which she has helpfully posted in the fPUAs subreddit, a forum apparently devoted to teaching “females” how to more effectively get picked up by alleged Alpha males.

FleetingWish starts off by distinguishing “misogyny” — in scare quotes — from bad things like racism:

[W]e cannot to fall into the common trap of lumping “misogynist” in the same category of “racist” and “homophobic”. The reason is they occur for entirely different reasons. Racist and homophobic people occur largely from lack of exposure. It’s easy to have misconceived notions of certain groups of people when you haven’t met any.

Obviously! For who in history were less racist than America’s antebellum slaveowners, white people who lived in close quarters with large numbers of black people and sometimes even fathered children with them via an ancient non-racist practice known as “raping your slaves.”

But this is not the case for women; men have met many, many women in their lives. Any “misogyny” that they may have developed (or lack thereof) has been created by their exposure to women, and those women have only confirmed their biases.

Huh. So if you retain your hate for a group of people even when you have had considerable contact with these people, this means your hate was justified? By this logic, then, slaveowners were justified in their racism, and Nazi concentration camp guards were justified in their antisemitism.

[O]n to the reason men “hate” us. There are countless complaints to be found, but they all seem to lead to the same core. They don’t see what value women can provide for them (outside of sex).

And how exactly is this the fault of the women, rather than a reflection of the rather limited imagination of the men in question?

When I first understood this, I felt disappointed and sad, because I want to feel that my presence makes a difference, and not that 50% of the population would be better off without me.

You didn’t ask: What the fuck is wrong with these guys who think that that the value of women can be reduced to what they provide men sexually?

But I wanted to find the truth behind the anger, so I asked myself two questions; “What are women providing for men in today’s society?” and “What should women be providing them?” (Or alternatively “What is it that women could provide that would make men see their worth?”)

Why would you assume there was “truth behind the anger” rather than, say, a stunted personality and a giant sense of entitlement? Why are women obligated to “provide” anything for men, apart from the basic human decency all people are generally expected to show one another?

I answered my first question by observing the world around me. We have a society where women are encouraged to behave like men. We are encouraged to be competitive, career driven, even to be brash and arrogant in order to get what we want.

None of these things are inherently male traits.

Also, we are told again and again, that not only should men not expect anything of us (not even common decency), but that we should leave any one who places any demands (or requests) on us.

Huh? I think Ms. Wish may be having imaginary conversations with those old villains the Straw Feminists.

The trouble with the first mentality is by acting like men, we run the risk of being second place to actual men. If a man wants to have a relationship of some kind with someone who behaves masculine, why would he seek a woman? … If he wants to seek out a woman, it’s because he’s seeking someone who behaves like a woman, and personifies feminine behavior.

Says you.  Even setting aside all those who fall outside of, or otherwise confound, the traditional gender binary, there are plenty of straight cis men who have no problem with straight cis women whom you’d no doubt define as excessively “masculine.” Indeed, recent research suggests that men aren’t as intimidated by successful, high-earning women as the old stereotypes suggest. A recent report from the Brookings Institution noted that marriage rates amongst the top-earning women have been rising while those of lower lower-earning women have declined.

And why do you even care if other women act in a way that you’ve defined as “masculine?” If you want to act in a way you think is appropriately “feminine,” it’s your life, go for it. Let other people define “masculinity” and “femininity,” and their relationships with these concepts, how they want.

The trouble with the second mentality is that by not taking into consideration what men want from us, it takes away our ability to listen to their needs. Because men have needs, they have feelings, they have wants, and they have desires. And those needs are important, they are important for their basic happiness and fulfillment in life.

Uh, yeah. Women have needs, too. I’m pretty sure most successful long-term relationships are based on fulfilling both partners’ needs, not on forcing one partner into a “feminine” mold so as not to challenge the male ego.

The solution to both of these is actually the same. Be feminine. That’s what men are desperately craving from us. … Men don’t want a woman that they have to compete with, they compete with people all day long, at the end of the day they want someone who they don’t have to compete with. 

In other words, if you’re better than him at Halo 4, go ahead and let him win. These sorts of dudes tend to have a bit of a temper.

The thing is, those men who “hate” us, they don’t really hate us, they desperately want to be able to love us. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across. And they’ve become so hurt, that they don’t know what else to do.

Uh, no, I’m pretty sure a lot of these guys really DO hate you. If you don’t believe me, I’ve got roughly 1200 posts in the Man Boobz archive that might provide some further illumination on this point — although, admittedly, some of the posts are about kitties, not misogyny. So maybe 1000 posts?

So, my challenge to anyone reading this is if you see these men on reddit, try to empathize where they are coming from. Instead of being angry at them, be understanding of them. Instead of defending yourself, defend them. Instead of telling them “you’re not like that”, show them you aren’t like that. Respond to these posts with something to the effect of “Wow, I’m really sorry that women you’ve come across have treated you so bad, I wish there was something I could do to heal that hurt you’re feeling.”

“I’m so, so sorry you think I’m a worthless bitch.”

By responding like this, you accomplish so many things. First is you are validating their concerns, second you empathize with their feelings, and third you show them that there are women who care (demonstrating to them that they might be wrong after all). You will see that if you do this, these men’s hearts will melt so fast for the opportunity to believe that there are women who care.

At least until they disagree with you about something, at which point you can expect all the old misogyny to erupt again, this time aimed directly at you.

Naturally, all the guys who for some reason were reading a subreddit devoted to the “self-improvement of women” thought that Ms. Wish’s advice to her fellow not-fellows sounded a-ok with them.

“As a male, this is spot on,” wrote one. “This actually made me get shivers. Thank you for existing. Thank you for caring.

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Viscaria
Viscaria
10 years ago

Waste of time lulz troll is a waste of time.

vaiyt
10 years ago

“You see women as people and don’t agree with a defender of date rape and child abuse because you aren’t having sex!”

jaxonavestudios
jaxonavestudios
10 years ago

You’ll never know the definition of a real man because you obviously hang around men who bow to your every whim. A real man has his own thoughts, doesn’t run from women and doesn’t need a woman in his life to MAKE him a man.

Go hump a tree or something. Just remember, there’s a good chance you won’t be able to control it.

trans_commie
10 years ago

Jaxonavestudios, just because you deny being transphobic doesn’t mean you aren’t. It is not only transphobic to imply that we “transgendered” women are failed men (whatever the hell that is), but it is also transphobic to imply that our lives are privileged compared to those of men. And it is equally transphobic to imply that David should “become” a trans woman. Please just go away necro troll.

Shiraz
Shiraz
10 years ago

You sound 12, jaxon. Hostile and 12. You’re afraid of women, ain’t ya? Empathetic men disgust you?
Gender policing has always been the hobby of the fearful — you know, sexists and homophobes.

trans_commie
10 years ago

“Yet he needs to get laid?”

nice one

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

Ok, Jaxon, you’ve come on here & waved your penis about. Now put it away, like a good boy. It’s just not that impressive.

emilygoddess
10 years ago

“David’s not a real man”
“Well, what do you mean by ‘real man’?”
“You’ll never know because [schoolyard insult]!”

A+ debate style, bro. You sure schooled me.

leatapp
leatapp
10 years ago

Sadly, Jaxon, you are the same gender as David. I’d like to say that you aren’t even in the same species, but we have to claim all of humanity, even the worst of us. You fail at alot of things, but your gender can’t be one. You just aren’t both decent people. See, decent people aren’t juvenile bigots whose comments are the web version of smearing shit on the walls and yelling, “Ta-da!” when they’re done. David is not a pathetic sexist asshat who thinks he can build himself up by tearing others down. You are. You think being the worst sort of douchebucket makes you manly. It doesn’t. Being awful is not a marker of manhood. Thinking so is awfully misandrist of you.Anybody can be repellent and stupid, as the woman who wrote the post this one mocks demonstrates.

Now you know. You’re welcome. Now, scoot along and be a annoying ass pimple elsewhere.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

jaxon: that was not impressive at all, but I’m sure you’re used to hearing that. Go groom your neckbeard.

aj hitman
aj hitman
10 years ago

Wow.. You mocked her by comparing her views with your own views while proudly decalaring that your views are ALMIGHTY AND TRUE but get off your high horse because MEN ARE PEOPLE TOO and women who treat men with love and not hostility lead divorce-free and happy lives(i dont care to give you citations!!) Common sense. Unless you believe that men are opportunist creatures who are jumping to leave their wives for other women.? Do you believe that? We love women but we hate you– Feminists who shame another WOMAN because she had a different opinion. Think about it. You shamed her because she liked to treat her Men they way she wanted to and live to tell her tale. This post is obviously hate against a women who spoke her mind. So feminism is pro-choice or not? One word for you :: HYPOCRISY.

cloudiah
10 years ago

Men are people too? Shocking!!!! Or actually, the default assumption for eons.

Feminism is about arguing that women are also people. The fact that it upsets you is … telling.

grumpycatisagirl
10 years ago

(i dont care to give you citations!!)

I wonder why . . .

grumpycatisagirl
10 years ago

Also, is it just me or are the troll sentences all getting extra run-on-sentence-y lately?

kittehserf
10 years ago

They’re developing a trolly troll language right before our eyes. Pity it’s almost unintelligible to anyone else.

Ally S
10 years ago

You shamed her because she liked to treat her Men they way she wanted to and live to tell her tale. This post is obviously hate against a women who spoke her mind.

Actually, it’s just because David is equally invested in exposing female misogynists. Women, while never capable of exercising or benefiting from male privilege, are very much capable of being misogynists. And we have every right to criticize and shame this woman for being a misogynist. After all, freedom of speech implies freedom of criticism of speech.

vaiyt
10 years ago

“You’re intolerant of my intolerance”, iteration #87820498

Ally S
10 years ago

I think the only folks I find more tedious than MRAs and “egalitarians” are people who say “You can be bigoted against bigotry! Hypocrite!!!”

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I’d find their blathering a lot easier to tolerate without the MREnglish. I mean, really? Two different variations on random capitalization for emphasis in one sentence? Dude is making my inner editor cry.

We love women but we hate you– Feminists who shame another WOMAN because she had a different opinion.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

What’s a you-feminist? Is it a video sharing website for feminists? Or are random dashes the new random ellipses?

kittehserf
10 years ago

Maybe he doesn’t know how to put a space before a dash as well as after it? Or maybe he meant to use a colon? One never knows with trollspeak.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

You shamed her because she liked to treat her Men they way she wanted to and live to tell her tale

Nope. She is welcome to treat her Men (why is “Men” capitalised, by the way? Is this because “Men” are super super important, in your view?) any way she wishes, as long as that doesn’t invlovle abuse.

We “shamed” her – or rather, we pointed out the supidity and bigotry inhernet in her post – for attmepting to force all Women (hell, I can capitalise, too) to do as she does.

It’s really not that difficult to understand. Forcing everyone else make the choice you would make in their situation =/= choice.

And you MRAs can’t have it both ways. Either you think that Feminists are bigoted becaue we are all “Women = good, Men = bad” or you think that Feminists are bigoted because we are mean meanie-pants to another woman. Just make up your minds which straw-feminist to attack, ok?

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

^inherent not inhernet. What is “inhernet”?

leatapp
leatapp
10 years ago

aj,
We mocked her for the same reason we mock you: She’s a very silly person with some very silly ides. Internalized misogyny is pitiful, but the women who project theirs out on to the rest of us need to be called out just the same.

Her Men? She owns men? Is that legal?

If you hate feminists then you hate women. There may be women you have some use for or who don’t dare get uppity and think they’re deserving of equality. So, you aren’t threatened by them, but you don’t respect them or recognize their equality either.

What I believe about men is that they are not a monolith, but individuals with differing motivations, goals and behaviors.

You do know that a divorce can be a blessing that makes people happier than they were before, right? Happy lives do not have to be divorce free and unhappy lives can be divorce free. A person’s lifelong happiness does not have to be tied up in the success of a long term relationship. If that’s a priority for you, that’s great. It does not have to be. You get to decide that for yourself.

kittehserf
10 years ago

^inherent not inhernet. What is “inhernet”?

Teh Ebil Wimminz Internets, obvs.

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