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On Reddit, a woman explains to other women why men hate them

Wonder Woman: Always alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.
Wonder Woman: Forever alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.

NOTE: I’ve closed comments on this post because it keeps attracting crankish comments from misogynists who agree with the misogynists I quote in the post.

Hey ladies! Have you ever wondered why so many men hate you? Well, you’re in luck, because on Reddit, another lady just like you has an answer. It’s because you suck. No, really. Men hate women because women are terrible. And not very ladylike, to boot.

Let’s join FleetingWish as she explains “Why Do Men “Hate” Us?” in Part 2 of her Who-knows-how-many-parts opus “Attracting Alphas,” which she has helpfully posted in the fPUAs subreddit, a forum apparently devoted to teaching “females” how to more effectively get picked up by alleged Alpha males.

FleetingWish starts off by distinguishing “misogyny” — in scare quotes — from bad things like racism:

[W]e cannot to fall into the common trap of lumping “misogynist” in the same category of “racist” and “homophobic”. The reason is they occur for entirely different reasons. Racist and homophobic people occur largely from lack of exposure. It’s easy to have misconceived notions of certain groups of people when you haven’t met any.

Obviously! For who in history were less racist than America’s antebellum slaveowners, white people who lived in close quarters with large numbers of black people and sometimes even fathered children with them via an ancient non-racist practice known as “raping your slaves.”

But this is not the case for women; men have met many, many women in their lives. Any “misogyny” that they may have developed (or lack thereof) has been created by their exposure to women, and those women have only confirmed their biases.

Huh. So if you retain your hate for a group of people even when you have had considerable contact with these people, this means your hate was justified? By this logic, then, slaveowners were justified in their racism, and Nazi concentration camp guards were justified in their antisemitism.

[O]n to the reason men “hate” us. There are countless complaints to be found, but they all seem to lead to the same core. They don’t see what value women can provide for them (outside of sex).

And how exactly is this the fault of the women, rather than a reflection of the rather limited imagination of the men in question?

When I first understood this, I felt disappointed and sad, because I want to feel that my presence makes a difference, and not that 50% of the population would be better off without me.

You didn’t ask: What the fuck is wrong with these guys who think that that the value of women can be reduced to what they provide men sexually?

But I wanted to find the truth behind the anger, so I asked myself two questions; “What are women providing for men in today’s society?” and “What should women be providing them?” (Or alternatively “What is it that women could provide that would make men see their worth?”)

Why would you assume there was “truth behind the anger” rather than, say, a stunted personality and a giant sense of entitlement? Why are women obligated to “provide” anything for men, apart from the basic human decency all people are generally expected to show one another?

I answered my first question by observing the world around me. We have a society where women are encouraged to behave like men. We are encouraged to be competitive, career driven, even to be brash and arrogant in order to get what we want.

None of these things are inherently male traits.

Also, we are told again and again, that not only should men not expect anything of us (not even common decency), but that we should leave any one who places any demands (or requests) on us.

Huh? I think Ms. Wish may be having imaginary conversations with those old villains the Straw Feminists.

The trouble with the first mentality is by acting like men, we run the risk of being second place to actual men. If a man wants to have a relationship of some kind with someone who behaves masculine, why would he seek a woman? … If he wants to seek out a woman, it’s because he’s seeking someone who behaves like a woman, and personifies feminine behavior.

Says you.  Even setting aside all those who fall outside of, or otherwise confound, the traditional gender binary, there are plenty of straight cis men who have no problem with straight cis women whom you’d no doubt define as excessively “masculine.” Indeed, recent research suggests that men aren’t as intimidated by successful, high-earning women as the old stereotypes suggest. A recent report from the Brookings Institution noted that marriage rates amongst the top-earning women have been rising while those of lower lower-earning women have declined.

And why do you even care if other women act in a way that you’ve defined as “masculine?” If you want to act in a way you think is appropriately “feminine,” it’s your life, go for it. Let other people define “masculinity” and “femininity,” and their relationships with these concepts, how they want.

The trouble with the second mentality is that by not taking into consideration what men want from us, it takes away our ability to listen to their needs. Because men have needs, they have feelings, they have wants, and they have desires. And those needs are important, they are important for their basic happiness and fulfillment in life.

Uh, yeah. Women have needs, too. I’m pretty sure most successful long-term relationships are based on fulfilling both partners’ needs, not on forcing one partner into a “feminine” mold so as not to challenge the male ego.

The solution to both of these is actually the same. Be feminine. That’s what men are desperately craving from us. … Men don’t want a woman that they have to compete with, they compete with people all day long, at the end of the day they want someone who they don’t have to compete with. 

In other words, if you’re better than him at Halo 4, go ahead and let him win. These sorts of dudes tend to have a bit of a temper.

The thing is, those men who “hate” us, they don’t really hate us, they desperately want to be able to love us. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across. And they’ve become so hurt, that they don’t know what else to do.

Uh, no, I’m pretty sure a lot of these guys really DO hate you. If you don’t believe me, I’ve got roughly 1200 posts in the Man Boobz archive that might provide some further illumination on this point — although, admittedly, some of the posts are about kitties, not misogyny. So maybe 1000 posts?

So, my challenge to anyone reading this is if you see these men on reddit, try to empathize where they are coming from. Instead of being angry at them, be understanding of them. Instead of defending yourself, defend them. Instead of telling them “you’re not like that”, show them you aren’t like that. Respond to these posts with something to the effect of “Wow, I’m really sorry that women you’ve come across have treated you so bad, I wish there was something I could do to heal that hurt you’re feeling.”

“I’m so, so sorry you think I’m a worthless bitch.”

By responding like this, you accomplish so many things. First is you are validating their concerns, second you empathize with their feelings, and third you show them that there are women who care (demonstrating to them that they might be wrong after all). You will see that if you do this, these men’s hearts will melt so fast for the opportunity to believe that there are women who care.

At least until they disagree with you about something, at which point you can expect all the old misogyny to erupt again, this time aimed directly at you.

Naturally, all the guys who for some reason were reading a subreddit devoted to the “self-improvement of women” thought that Ms. Wish’s advice to her fellow not-fellows sounded a-ok with them.

“As a male, this is spot on,” wrote one. “This actually made me get shivers. Thank you for existing. Thank you for caring.

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emilygoddess
10 years ago

shitthatneverhappened.txt

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

Wow, baddy. You sure are hardcore. Do you also deface books in libraries and steal everyone’s left sock for fun? Or do you just lie to strangers on the Internet?

marc hunt
10 years ago

Let me make a very finite moment of the ire a man can feel towards women’s ways. Someone posted 32 minutes ago about something I would like, I called, a women answered, I expressed my thought that though 11:00pm was only 32 minutes away from when they posted and then they said call back tomorrow. If a man had posted something they were wanting to be handled then 32 minutes away from that post would have been OK, Women you suck in how you do business. This is not an isolated moment.

Shadow
Shadow
10 years ago

Aroo? Is this free form poetry?

kittehserf
10 years ago

Protip, trolly: women are not a hivemind, nor a monolith. So you disliked [insert incomprehensible tale about something one woman did]? News for you: she is not the other 3.5 billion of us.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Just say no to drugs, kids. Well, the bad drugs. Whatever dudebro up there is taking.

Kim
Kim
10 years ago

Generalising to billions of people based on a few moments in time, shows very poor reasoning skills.

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
10 years ago

wow baddy is bad-arse.

marc hunt is unintelligible.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

If a man had posted something they were wanting to be handled then 32 minutes away from that post would have been OK

Citation needed. Actually, don’t bother. We get it.

Shorter MarcH: Men good, women bad, waaah!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Seriously, does anyone have any idea what he’s on about?

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
10 years ago

Women suck at interpersonal communication because they suck at business communication?

Is there a passing grade for this shite? 🙂

Brooked
Brooked
10 years ago

Let me make a very finite moment of the ire a man can feel towards women’s ways. Someone posted 32 minutes ago about something I would like, I called, a women answered, I expressed my thought that though 11:00pm was only 32 minutes away from when they posted and then they said call back tomorrow. If a man had posted something they were wanting to be handled then 32 minutes away from that post would have been OK, Women you suck in how you do business. This is not an isolated moment.

1) The first sentence is hilariously poorly written. Try using the phrase “a quick example”.

2) It sounds like you answered a Craig’s List ad and the women asked you to call back at what commonly referred to as “a decent hour”. Calling people after 11pm is considered poor manners by an enormous number of people. Marc hunt you suck in how you treat other people and I don’t doubt that this is not an isolated moment.

Brooked
Brooked
10 years ago

3) People usually say “isolated incident”, rather “isolated moment”, because that makes a lot more sense. Fun Fact: A moment is a very short amount of time.

Brooked
Brooked
10 years ago

@baddy

I ask women on dates then stand them up. I go to the venue and watch from a distance as they become increasingly nervous siting there along. Sometimes I laugh and giggle. Then I go home and have a beer.

Did an older friend buy the beer or do you have a fake ID? If you swiped a beer from your parents you could be in real trouble, unless they’re very liberal about under age drinking. The good news is alcohol doesn’t stunt your growth, that’s a myth.

Viscaria
Viscaria
10 years ago

Marc’s particular brand of alchemy turns ire into moments, which is pretty cool. Finite moments, mind, none of those infinite ones. Very finite moments. Much more finite than other finite things. 10 on the finite scale.

Viscaria
Viscaria
10 years ago

This is not an isolated moment.

Marc experienced forty finite moments made of ire at women’s ways. He experienced 40 moments. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s terrible.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Baddy sure showed those women. He doesn’t realize that he did them a favor.*

*if this is true, which I highly doubt.

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
10 years ago

Marc (Hunt, get it? Marc…hunt? Say it nice and fast… Yep, you got it), I got some news for you, and let me say this as one of the businesswomen that has your panties in such a bunch. The customer is not always right. In fact, the customer is quite often a perfect asshole.

*The following is an asshole service message from the business women of the world.”

I take calls and make deliveries and arrange for pick-ups during what is known as “normal business hours” when most folks are out interacting with the world. Come on up out of the basement and look up. Is the sky all bright so that your eyes want to squint? Congratulations, chances are that it is that magical period known as “normal business hours”! Call people, go by their shops, have a blast.

I emphatically do not make calls or arrange for sales during times other than these magical hours, though I am quite often still working, doing things like preparing sales materials and posting online. Just because I posted an ad at 10:30pm does not mean that I want you to call me and try to conduct business at that time. I want you to look at the ad and think, “Egads, there is a product I am interested in purchasing! I shall endeavor to phone the proprietor during normal business hours to propose a transaction!”

If it’s 11pm, then it is most likely past your bedtime and you should go to bed and get a good night’s sleep, because you are very cranky, and if you call when you are cranky, I am more likely than not to tell you that the item you are interested in is in fact sold out and will only be back in stock after the 32nd of next month. If you think that being an asshole will guarantee you good prices or better service, let me assure you that for every asshole that is interested in an item, there are most likely 20 or 30 other people who are *also* interested, and have the added benefit of being emphatically NOT a bunch of whining, entitled, basement dwelling jackasses. Can you guess who I am going to be more interested in conducting a business transaction with?

jaxonavestudios
jaxonavestudios
10 years ago

A man wrote this shyte? Oh sorry, a male rather? Because a real man wouldn’t. Dude..you’ve been seriously brainwashed. You and I are not the same gender. There’s no freaking way. You’re failing pathetically as a male. A sex change might just be appropriate in your case. Damn….

emilygoddess
10 years ago

“You suck as a man, so you should become a woman” is misogyny (and not very pro-man, either).

“LOL get a sex change” is transphobic

The OP clearly says the content it’s mocking was written by a woman, so you either misread everything including the title, or you’re trying to attack David but couldn’t be bothered to clarify that.

Basically, your entire comment is fail.

vaiyt
10 years ago

jaxonavestudios, the foremost authority on what’s a real man.

Viscaria
Viscaria
10 years ago

Real man =/= transmisogynistic jackass.

jaxonavestudios
jaxonavestudios
10 years ago
Reply to  emilygoddess

Hey good for you. You can say words out of the dictionary. I believe a gold star in your coloring books is in order. Way to go!

I know one this is for sure, I’m more of a man than David Futrelle could ever be.

Furthermore, if someone fails as a male, maybe they’d better off female. It has nothing to do with transphobia. I’ve had good friends who were transgendered – they are sadly no longer with us.

A bit of advice – go get laid.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

What’s the definition of a “real man?” How does one fail at being a man?

As usual, the only misandry on this site is from our manosperian trolls.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Sorry, that was supposed to say manospherian.

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