When I posted about WF Price’s viciously transphobic Mothers’ Day post on The Spearhead yesterday, the Spearhead commentariat had not yet weighed in on his post. Well, now they have, and so appallingly that I felt a second post was in order. Here are some of the, er, highlights of the discussion.
Again, a TRIGGER WARNING applies; if anything, these comments are worse than Price’s original post. This hasn’t made them unpopular at The Spearhead; quite the contrary: all the comments quoted below were well received by Spearhead readers, receiving multiple upvotes. A couple of them were even rated “Well-loved.”
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Alcestis Eshtemoa compares trans women, unfavorably, to eunuchs:
Transexuals/Transgenders are part of the LGBTQPPI freak show. Transexual “women” are de-facto mutilated or castrated men, on a much lower level than eunuchs even. Sure a couple of people may be born “inter-sexed” but most (in general) are not born or made that way. There are two sexes and they are complementary.
Instead it’s the delusional cosplay “I’m a woman in a man’s body” (sure and I’m really Napoleon reincarnated or Marilyn Monroe in a hideous, ill-mannered woman’s body). It’s a form of narcissism, the worse kind even, because these people don’t play their parts well. Instead the solipsism is projected elsewhere.
El Bastardo seems to think that feminists are all as transphobic as he is:
I can’t wait for all the liars, whom calling themselves feminists, have to face this genius who cut his own junk off. As soon as he says they are “equal” in motherhood, they are going to have to contain their laughter and scorn. A “Saaaayyy whaaaaattt?” moment. Followed by “Oh, HELL NAH!”
I actually feel for this individual, though the “suffering” is self inflicted. He, or perhaps she or it, has now set himself and his family up for years of delicious pain for his moronic self indulgence.
Truly, the feminists who raised him, for that is the evil and solipsistic individuals his parents (or at least his mother and wife) had to have been. They destroyed who he was, and cheered him on as he jumped into an abyss for which there is no return.
Now his sons have endured a wound they may never be able to articulate, but incubate with pain and confusion their whole lives. For if their father, now having turned and claimed to being a woman, hated his masculinity in such a fashion; what are they left to think?
Keyster also manages to pull off the neat trick of attacking transphobic feminists — well, he assumes all feminists are transphobic — in a comment that is itself transphobic, not to mention massively misogynistic:
Feminists hate transexuals because they “mock” womanhood; pretend to be women, when actually the massive doses of estrogen is what reveals the classic female behavior that sometimes annoys and frustrates men so much.
Also more often than not transexuals abhor masculinity so much that they actually consider themselves lesbians. And lesbians don’t much like (Male to Female) transexuals either. They do seem to do better once this “internal conflict” is resolved, but then create a whole new reality of confusion and complexities around them.
Geographybeefinalisthimself decides to make the issue all about, well, me:
I feel so sorry for this tranny’s sons.
I wonder if Manboobz will consider my pity for this tranny’s sons to be “misogyny.” I think his morbidly obese body will explode just thinking about how to react.
I’d call that transphobia, actually, Mr. geographybeefinalist. I’m not quite sure why you thought I would explode. It’s not exactly shocking to discover that misogynists are bigoted in other ways as well. On The Spearhead multiple bigotry seems to be the default state.
Towgunner delivered up a massive wall-o-text, from which I have extracted the following. (Paragraph breaks added.)
A simple agenda item for the MRA … is to encourage the truth, specifically, men and women are different and there is nothing wrong with that. ….
The reason why we unfortunately here about this is because it fits the feminists narrative and false idea that men and women are interchangeable etc. transsexuals are an important component to that argument because he was once a he now hes a she…look at that kids, as easy as pie. But its not, hormone treatment and multiple evasive surgeries are not some simple “switch” …
Methinks, the whole “I’m a women in a man’s body” meme is a sick distraction from the real truth, which is “No sir or ma’am, the truth is you’re not happy with yourself and the cards you were dealt and you’ve never came to terms with that! ….
The idea of “I’m a man in a women’s body” should be met with, “hey pal, I’d like to be a lot of things myself too, eating ice cream every night and having a full head of hair and washboard abs…but guess what, it’s not the case….deal. This is what happens when emotion trumps reason. psycology today is a joke, the proper treatment is a kick in the pants not some soft spoken, drug dealer who’s likely just as messed up as their patients are.
Brigadon responded to one commenter who challenged the Spearhead regulars on their homophobia (and got massively downvoted for doing so), accusing the commenter of using “shaming language” against those who rightfully resist “homophilia.” Then he called gay men “fags;” compared homosexuality to pedophilia, bestiality, and cannibalism; and suggested that trans women deserve to be ridiculed.
There is a vast difference between being homophobic and having a legitimate understanding of the deleterious effects homophilia has on society.
If you are not into molesting children, are you pedophobic?
If you are not into fucking housepets, are you beastophobic?
Why in the hell is it considered a ‘phobia’ to be disgusted and sickened by something which, in the end, is an incredibly unhealthy habit from both a species and societal standpoint? …Why should we accept cannibalism? why should we accept pederastery? why should we accept homosexuality? why should we accept beastiality? how does that strengthen us as a culture? what does it ADD to the human experience, and what does it take away?
Nice attempt at shaming language, though. technically ‘homophobia’= “fear of those like one’s self”. completely incorrect usage of the word.
Unfortunately, though, fags are afraid to use the real word…
Edinakusesiphobia- fear of sodomy.
Frankly, all things concerned, I consider a fear of getting sodomized to be a very real worry, as opposed to a ‘phobia’. Especially considering that nearly six times as many men in the US get raped as women, and nearly a hundred times as many men get FORCEFULLY raped (sodomized) as women.And, to be completely honest, why should we NOT ridicule men that lop their penises off in order to be failures as both males and females.
In case you’re wondering, this was one of the comments that was rated “Well-loved” by the Spearhead regulars.
There is plenty more awfulness to be found elsewhere in the thread at The Spearhead, as well as some comments that aren’t quite as bad, if you have the stomach to wade through the rest of it to find them.
This reminds me of a great quote from one of the Hitchhiker books (paraphrased here, unless I am actually remembering it perfectly) – “back in the old days of the Galaxy, when men were REAL men, women were REAL women, and small, furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were REAL small, furry creatures from Alpha Centauri…”
AK, you must have looked super awesome. I want to shave my head but I’m afraid to.
The Scottish version of that cliche is “when men were men and sheep were frightened”, which admittedly is a rather icky rape/bestiality joke, but does rather point to how out there the ultra-misogynist idea of manliness is. Even macho drunken Scottish men think it’s ridiculous.
CassandraSays – I like the Douglas Adams one, because it points out how silly the idea of “real” men or women are.
Is that saying Scots? I never knew where it came from. First time I ever heard it was from my current boss, who says it quite a lot.
Nope, nope, nope. Not touching that post. I have had a draining day, and I’m enjoying being alive today, and I’m not changing that for the MRM. Nope, nope, nope.
TMI but I actually never encountered ‘fun sexy things to do with soft outie genitals’ until this year, when I found a zine by and for trans women about sex. I considered myself fairly well read, but definitely gave me a, “Why have I never encountered this?” moment. (Didn’t help that I was going off my hormones, which meant my libido died a slow, nasty death for a month or so.)
If it hasn’t been bought up yet, Price had one of the worst dodges ever when someone called him on his hate: http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/05/12/a-ny-times-mothers-day-op-ed-trannies-are-equal-moms/#comment-186888
This follow-up comment also shows off his moronic populist-traditionalism (and yes, Price, I would call those people, or at least their culture/institutions, backwards): http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/05/12/a-ny-times-mothers-day-op-ed-trannies-are-equal-moms/#comment-186999
As for the thing about fundamentalism someone here bought up, I definitely recall him bringing up Timothy to say women should never preach. He doesn’t seem to realize that following his logic of Biblical consistency would (rightfully) end in Waco 2, though.
So the Aussies are mocking uber-macho men too, in a roundabout sort of way? If both the Scots and the Aussies are saying that your macho posing is a bit much, you might want to consider whether or not they are correct.
Bob: Ha. When someone calls you a “hate movement,” turns out it’s not the “movement” part that’s the problem.
@LBT- It is a crying shame that our sex education doesn’t teach us anything of value, and that our pop culture is so focused on inserty-type sex (PIV for straight people, anal for gay dudes, and… what do lesbians do exactly?). That whole dynamic makes a lot of things way more awkward than they need to be.
The bit about “men were men, sheep were afraid” was originally a joke ABOUT Scotland, told by other parts of Great Britain, especially the English. That said, the joke quickly got reclaimed, especially by Scots-descended North Americans, who take a great deal of enjoyment of our heritage, including poking fun at it. (Natch, there’s a lot of privilege here–it’s easier to joke about stuff like that when you’re essentially immune to serious discrimination and denigration.)
M Dubz: In popular culture, all lesbians use dildos and strap-ons; in the case of the latter, only ONE of them wears the strap-on, ever, making her the ‘man’ in the relationship. Because remember, if it isn’t penetration, it’s not real sex, and all relationships contain a top and a bottom, and the top is always the man.
Okay, I threw up in my mouth a bit when I typed that. Obviously, the pop-culture portrayal stinks on ice. It’s worth noting, for instance, that fully thirty percent of gay men in some polls say they’ve never done anal, despite being in a sexual relationship.
@freemage- gaaaaaaaaaaah. And on a related note, GAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
*coughs* Willow and Tara didn’t use dildos. And neither of them was “the man”. <3
That is all.
I’m late to the game here, but I have just one question for these angry, bitter, douchecanoes…
Why in the fuck do you care so much if a guy feels like the best course of action for his life is to transition to a woman? It’s HER decision and does not affect you in the LEAST.
Wow, it sure is awesome to have Americans explain my heritage to me. We Scots are a primitive people and certainly not capable of reclaiming former insults ourselves – for that we need outside assistance.
Most transpeople are delusioned, this isn’t a transphobic statement, it passes no judgement, it doesn’t say transpeople are bad, it merely states that they are incorrect in what they believe themselves to be, a person who has a penis is not a woman, if they beleive they are they have an incorrect belief, a delusion, this NOT saying they are lesser people, it’s simply saying they are incorrect.
If you disagree with me on my definition of man and woman, you know what, that’s fine, just don’t label me tranphobic becuase I use the official, legally recognised definitions, it’s like calling someone antisemitic becuase they believe circumcision is wrong.
ON WHAT ALTERNATE BIZARROWORLD?
I’d love to know where these idiots come up with these ideas? Now it seems that MRAs just make junk up!
Huh. I totally missed that part of my heritage.
Huh, funny that, I can’t find legal definitions for man and woman, I’m kinda legit surprised to find nothing but there you go, near as I can find, they don’t use biological essentialism.
Also, OH HAI No, no, no. But no, no, NO! Just because your body doesn’t have bits you think it shouldn’t doesn’t make those of us with unwanted bits delusional.
And wtf do you care if I’d like certain surgerical procedures to be more readily available do maybe I could take advantage of them, and not be treated like a freak show for that? In what fucking way does “just ignore me then” impinge on your rights? It doesn’t, so time for my FREEZE PEACH!! Fuck off.
@No, no no –
You need to learn a lot more about human beings before you go reverting to binary essentialism to pronounce on who’s male and who’s female, and talking as if everything is soooo clear-cut and simple.
But even if it were – what the fuck does it matter to you? What business is it of yours how other people see and define themselves? Who the hell are you to decide what someone else’s reality is regarding their own SELF, and their own body?
Did you know know know that trans people are able to legally change their sex in a lot of countries? Don’t dictionary troll us if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
@No, no no:
Let’s say for the moment that you believe that penis = man and vagina = woman. Not too hard of a stretch, I’d imagine. Let’s look at some pictures:
1
2
3
4
Could you tell me which gender (ignoring genders outside the binary for now) each person in these pictures are?
I knew you could.
But how? How could you possibly know if you didn’t see their genitals? Obviously you aren’t making your judgement based on knowing which sexual bits they have. Gender, according to your judgement, is not about chromosomes or bits, it’s about presentation and action. This is what feminists mean when they say that gender is socially constructed. If it were simply about bits, you would be unable to make a judgement about someone’s gender until you knew what genitals they possessed.
When you say that a trans*woman is not actually a woman, you are applying a different, arbitrary definition to her that you don’t apply to other women. You are suddenly saying that something that is completely irrelevant in day to day life for you is suddenly more important than anything else.
(everyone, feel free to smack me if I’ve gotten something terribly wrong)
LOL! LOLOLOLOLOL
So you’ll take no umbrage when I tell you that you’re pig-ignorant and a spouter of hateful falsehoods which cause real harm to trans* people every day, right? Because I’m not passing judgement, I’m just stating that your beliefs are incorrect and that they cause measurable pain and suffering!
Oh, wait, I guess I am passing judgement, because that’s kind of inherent to believing that what someone is doing is bad and misinformed.
Some countries legally recognize trans* status, some don’t exactly but still allow for legal transitioning. Do you really think gender changes based on what country you’re in?
(For that matter, I’m pretty sure even the U.S. bases legal gender not on genitals but on gender assignment at birth, but I could be wrong about that.)