When I posted about WF Price’s viciously transphobic Mothers’ Day post on The Spearhead yesterday, the Spearhead commentariat had not yet weighed in on his post. Well, now they have, and so appallingly that I felt a second post was in order. Here are some of the, er, highlights of the discussion.
Again, a TRIGGER WARNING applies; if anything, these comments are worse than Price’s original post. This hasn’t made them unpopular at The Spearhead; quite the contrary: all the comments quoted below were well received by Spearhead readers, receiving multiple upvotes. A couple of them were even rated “Well-loved.”
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Alcestis Eshtemoa compares trans women, unfavorably, to eunuchs:
Transexuals/Transgenders are part of the LGBTQPPI freak show. Transexual “women” are de-facto mutilated or castrated men, on a much lower level than eunuchs even. Sure a couple of people may be born “inter-sexed” but most (in general) are not born or made that way. There are two sexes and they are complementary.
Instead it’s the delusional cosplay “I’m a woman in a man’s body” (sure and I’m really Napoleon reincarnated or Marilyn Monroe in a hideous, ill-mannered woman’s body). It’s a form of narcissism, the worse kind even, because these people don’t play their parts well. Instead the solipsism is projected elsewhere.
El Bastardo seems to think that feminists are all as transphobic as he is:
I can’t wait for all the liars, whom calling themselves feminists, have to face this genius who cut his own junk off. As soon as he says they are “equal” in motherhood, they are going to have to contain their laughter and scorn. A “Saaaayyy whaaaaattt?” moment. Followed by “Oh, HELL NAH!”
I actually feel for this individual, though the “suffering” is self inflicted. He, or perhaps she or it, has now set himself and his family up for years of delicious pain for his moronic self indulgence.
Truly, the feminists who raised him, for that is the evil and solipsistic individuals his parents (or at least his mother and wife) had to have been. They destroyed who he was, and cheered him on as he jumped into an abyss for which there is no return.
Now his sons have endured a wound they may never be able to articulate, but incubate with pain and confusion their whole lives. For if their father, now having turned and claimed to being a woman, hated his masculinity in such a fashion; what are they left to think?
Keyster also manages to pull off the neat trick of attacking transphobic feminists — well, he assumes all feminists are transphobic — in a comment that is itself transphobic, not to mention massively misogynistic:
Feminists hate transexuals because they “mock” womanhood; pretend to be women, when actually the massive doses of estrogen is what reveals the classic female behavior that sometimes annoys and frustrates men so much.
Also more often than not transexuals abhor masculinity so much that they actually consider themselves lesbians. And lesbians don’t much like (Male to Female) transexuals either. They do seem to do better once this “internal conflict” is resolved, but then create a whole new reality of confusion and complexities around them.
Geographybeefinalisthimself decides to make the issue all about, well, me:
I feel so sorry for this tranny’s sons.
I wonder if Manboobz will consider my pity for this tranny’s sons to be “misogyny.” I think his morbidly obese body will explode just thinking about how to react.
I’d call that transphobia, actually, Mr. geographybeefinalist. I’m not quite sure why you thought I would explode. It’s not exactly shocking to discover that misogynists are bigoted in other ways as well. On The Spearhead multiple bigotry seems to be the default state.
Towgunner delivered up a massive wall-o-text, from which I have extracted the following. (Paragraph breaks added.)
A simple agenda item for the MRA … is to encourage the truth, specifically, men and women are different and there is nothing wrong with that. ….
The reason why we unfortunately here about this is because it fits the feminists narrative and false idea that men and women are interchangeable etc. transsexuals are an important component to that argument because he was once a he now hes a she…look at that kids, as easy as pie. But its not, hormone treatment and multiple evasive surgeries are not some simple “switch” …
Methinks, the whole “I’m a women in a man’s body” meme is a sick distraction from the real truth, which is “No sir or ma’am, the truth is you’re not happy with yourself and the cards you were dealt and you’ve never came to terms with that! ….
The idea of “I’m a man in a women’s body” should be met with, “hey pal, I’d like to be a lot of things myself too, eating ice cream every night and having a full head of hair and washboard abs…but guess what, it’s not the case….deal. This is what happens when emotion trumps reason. psycology today is a joke, the proper treatment is a kick in the pants not some soft spoken, drug dealer who’s likely just as messed up as their patients are.
Brigadon responded to one commenter who challenged the Spearhead regulars on their homophobia (and got massively downvoted for doing so), accusing the commenter of using “shaming language” against those who rightfully resist “homophilia.” Then he called gay men “fags;” compared homosexuality to pedophilia, bestiality, and cannibalism; and suggested that trans women deserve to be ridiculed.
There is a vast difference between being homophobic and having a legitimate understanding of the deleterious effects homophilia has on society.
If you are not into molesting children, are you pedophobic?
If you are not into fucking housepets, are you beastophobic?
Why in the hell is it considered a ‘phobia’ to be disgusted and sickened by something which, in the end, is an incredibly unhealthy habit from both a species and societal standpoint? …Why should we accept cannibalism? why should we accept pederastery? why should we accept homosexuality? why should we accept beastiality? how does that strengthen us as a culture? what does it ADD to the human experience, and what does it take away?
Nice attempt at shaming language, though. technically ‘homophobia’= “fear of those like one’s self”. completely incorrect usage of the word.
Unfortunately, though, fags are afraid to use the real word…
Edinakusesiphobia- fear of sodomy.
Frankly, all things concerned, I consider a fear of getting sodomized to be a very real worry, as opposed to a ‘phobia’. Especially considering that nearly six times as many men in the US get raped as women, and nearly a hundred times as many men get FORCEFULLY raped (sodomized) as women.And, to be completely honest, why should we NOT ridicule men that lop their penises off in order to be failures as both males and females.
In case you’re wondering, this was one of the comments that was rated “Well-loved” by the Spearhead regulars.
There is plenty more awfulness to be found elsewhere in the thread at The Spearhead, as well as some comments that aren’t quite as bad, if you have the stomach to wade through the rest of it to find them.
“Seriously, MRM, could you assholes project any more?”
I read that as “project assholes” and went Ewwww.
Though it seems apt, somehow.
MRAs: the unexpressed canine anal glands of the universe.
Or the projectile anal glands of the mephitis mephitis.
Wow. I have nothing intelligent to say, because I am disgusted. So… adding to the offer of internet hugs and kitten snuggles for anyone who wants them.
There seems (to me) to be a similarity between MRArglebargle and Fundamentalist/literalist religious thought… is it just me? Kim, you mentioned that about WTF Price and I wonder if this sort of thinking appeals to people like that in general – the world is black & white, there are literal truths they they know so don’t need any further information, they hand-wave away conflicting evidence, they love to feel persecuted, etc.
Isn’t “delusional cosplay” kind of an oxymoron?
Aren’t people involved in cosplay always delusional in the sense that, not only are they pretending to be people and creatures who aren’t them, they’re pretending to be people/creatures who don’t even officially exist (other than as artificial, made-up constructs)?
Aren’t people involved in cosplay doubly delusional, in the sense that not only do they hope to convince themselves that they can pass as nonexistent made-up people and creatures, they hope to convince an audience of the same thing?
Is that any reason why we should condemn what they’re doing? Or stand in their way?
For that matter aren’t all actors/actresses delusional (see first count, above)?
And further aren’t all actors/actresses doubly delusional (see second count, also above)?
Is this any reason why we should condemn what they’re doing, or stand in its way, or decline to pay money to see it? (I’m aware that a true Puritan would say “yes, yes, and, most emphatically, yes”.)
As long as we’re on the subject, isn’t every little boy who makes a gun out of his finger, points it, and says “bang, you’re dead”, delusional? Should we attempt to cure him of his delusion? Should we read him a lecture about how his finger isn’t really a gun, and top the lecture off with the information that the first shot isn’t always fatal?
And isn’t every little girl who pours glitter into her hair and hangs tinsel over her ears and says “look at me, I’m a fairy princess!” delusional? Should we seek to free her of her delusion? Should we tell her she’s a scutty little mortal kid who’s going to inherit bad skin and worse hair, and that not only don’t fairy princesses exist, but if they did they’d be prettier than she is? (I’m aware that there are MRA’s who would answer “yes”.)
My point (to the extent that I have a point) would be: transfolk are a soft target. It’s easy enough to take a shot at them. I don’t personally feel inclined to do that, but I’m aware (again) that they make enough people feel uneasy that bennies and ego-boo can be derived from crapping on their day. But if the core of your objection to transfolk is that they’re deluded and/or liars, you’ve got a much tougher program on your hands. What you’re objecting to in that case isn’t transsexuality but delusion and lies, which are part of the fabric out of which the world is made. (“The rock of the world is founded securely on a fairy’s wing.”) If you want to crusade against delusion and lies as such, be my guest and make my day, but don’t expect me to join you, because you’ll be going up against august and mighty powers. (Though you may accomplish great things, and the one certainty on which you can count is that you’ll always be kept busy.) If, on the other hand, what you expect to do is feast on your allotted portion of lies and delusions while keeping others from theirs, then I recognize you as a dog in a manger and a hypocrite, and I cease to worry about what your opinion with respect to transfolk or anything else might be, while I start to look around for an online game of mah-jong to play.
I offer happiness in the form of Sad Cat Diary:
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKffm2uI4dk&w=560&h=315%5D
Woo, this is close to home. I’m not trans, but my partner is. I’d like to hear one of these ass hats say this stuff out loud in my presence: they would feel the full weight of my righteous fury (all 200+ # of it behind one arthritic fist). Seriously, bring it on!!! (I’m not really a violent person but in this case I would make an exception.). To Aaliyah (and other young transsexual women here), please try not to internalize this venom. And speaking of Bailey and his horrible, rightfully discredited “science,” I will make a confession: I actually “lost” my public library’s copy. I know, I know that’s BAD, but I couldn’t bear the thought of some unwitting young trans person (or spouse of a trans person) checking it out in good faith and then wasting months if not years worrying about “autogynophelia” as though it really were A Thing.
Crappity crap. Embed fail.
bekabot – really interesting comments!
It ties in with what Cassandra asked before: wtf is it to these guys if other people are trans*, whether they think it’s delusional or not? How does it affect, let alone hurt, them? Reminds me of the old question about who would choose to be homosexual in a world where that can get you fired, imprisoned, murdered? It applies even more here.
Perhaps it comes back to their basic notion that cis heterosexual men are good, great, and the natural owners of the world; that women should be men’s property to be used as men wish; and that anyone bucking that system is sick, perverted or, if a man, a traitor. It is a very fundamentalist attitude, whether or not religion is involved. The outrage at being deprived of what they see as their natural rights and their wholly delusional (heh) idea that men as a whole are oppressed and attacked for being male is also very much akin to the squealings of USian fundamentalists.
Maybe they should get together and combine the War on Men with the War on Christmas. They could call it the War on Santa or something.
Lest you peg me as a thief, I did donate “True Selves” as a kind of substitute.
PS re-reading my post, I think I worded it badly at the start: I am emphatically NOT saying there’s something wrong with being homosexual, trans* or anything else, but that there’s something horribly wrong with the world that’s so damn hostile to so many people.
La Strega, I will forgive you… This time. Do not mess with librarians! 😀
To borrow a phrase I learned from Captain Awkward, the Dunderheaders really do seem to feel that trans* folks are being trans* at them, like it’s a personal affront. Weird how bigotry works.
Like, I think that people who identify as otherkin are delusional. Am I going to mount a crusade against them to force them to acknowledge what I see as reality? No, because they’re not doing anyone any harm, so what would be the point?
So, again – what is it that LGBT people are doing that this dude feels so threatened by? Because as far as I can tell the answer is “existing”, and that’s just silly.
@ Tracy –
I followed the link and saw it anyway. It’s great.
@ Kittehserf –
First, thanks; and second:
“Maybe they should get together and combine the War on Men with the War on Christmas. They could call it the War on Santa or something.”
Could be, but isn’t Santa actually supposed to be “a right jolly old elf”? Is there room in the MRA clubhouse for elves? (Though he could startle them all by entering via the chimney.)
“And isn’t every little girl who pours glitter into her hair and hangs tinsel over her ears and says “look at me, I’m a fairy princess!” delusional?”
Ahh! Glitter will never wash out!! NevARRRRRR!!!
(I continue to have nothing useful to add)
bekabot – good point. I’m pretty sure elves would be banned, and as for anyone who’s jolly, happy, merry, joyful, glad, contented … they’d be out in an instant.
Not that they’d ever have wanted to be in, in the first place. There’s a sign on the door that says Haters Only. Or if there isn’t, there should be.
To extend this analogy, in the magical kingdom of fantasy where elves abound and people wear glitter in their hair, you know what MRAs would be? Orcs.
‘sfunny, isn’t it, about these skeeves – they’re the most delusional characters I’ve ever seen, living in their own little fantasy world in which they are The Heroes and every other mean meanie pervert female bi*ch is out to get them. But wtf do they get out of their delusion? It doesn’t make ’em happier. Oh, it feeds their pathetic egos and probably shields them from any self-awareness of what utter shits they are (apart from the ones who revel in being shits), but other than that? They’re wallowing in self-induced misery. If they weren’t out to hurt other people I’d feel sorry for them, but they’re so toxic they could live in a nuclear waste dump and never notice.
So, I’ve been off changing things in my life (mostly for the better) and I see the Manosphere is still repulsive and willfully ignorant and generally a pustule on the asshole of humanity. Gosh, how I haven’t missed them.
Life-changing is fairly time-consuming (the way I do it), so I expect I’ll only be popping in occasionally (when I’m procrastinating), but it’s good to see you all again, so to speak. And good to meet those of you I haven’t met yet.
A World Anonymous, you must be getting to the end of your first year of University. How are you? I still get a happy every time I see your red kitty avatar.
Hi Unimaginative, good to see you, too! Glad to hear most of those changes are for the better. 🙂
re Trans: At a lot of levels I don’t understand it. I also don’t understand lots of things, which I know to be real and true (quantum mechanics comes to mind). It’s no skin off my nose, and the trans people I I know are wonderful people, just as the LGBQS are.
Because people are (as a general class) wonderful.
Since it’s no skin off my nose to treat them as they want to be treated (in that it doesn’t take away anyone else’s liberties/freedoms/rights), I see no reason not to take them as they want to be taken.
@cloudiah
“La Strega, I will forgive you… This time. Do not mess with librarians! :D”
Oh I am embarrassed now… The thing is, I worked as a Tech Services Librarian myself, a long time ago, and I know how frustrating it is to keep looking for hours and weeks and months for an item that has gone MIA. I know vigilante censorship is not the answer, but in my defense it is a VERY VERY VERY bad book, and it was the ONLY book on the topic they had,…
Which is what I’ve been getting at – what is it that the existence and societal tolerance of LGBT people does that MRA dude thinks harms him? What is our existence taking away from him, in his mind? They never quite articulate that part. In a more general sense I know what it is that MRAs think feminists are taking away from them (the right to treat the women around them however they wish, and the societal power that right reflects), but with their hatred of LGBT people I’m a little less clear. Is it just that our existence undermines their beliefs about how gender and sexuality work?
Cassandra: . Is it just that our existence undermines their beliefs about how gender and sexuality work?
Yes. It more than undermines, it completely destroys it.
“Oh I am embarrassed now… The thing is, I worked as a Tech Services Librarian myself, a long time ago”
OMG La Strega’s a fifth columnist! :O
But the thing is, they can’t make us go away. There are too many of us. Even if they were to kill every last one of us (and with these guys that isn’t as out there an idea as it would be with most political groups), there would be more, because there have always been LGBT people, in every culture in the world. It’s like tying your happiness into making the sun or the ocean not exist any more.