Question Time: Backlash, Frontlash, The End of Men?

Throwing away piles of ancient political signs was way more entertaining than Joe —

I put them all in one garbage bag, thing weighed a ton, had to flop it up the stairs end over end. Get it up the stairs, use a box as a sled and get it to the dumpster. My mother and I each grab an end of the box, get it nearly to dumpster height when she starts tipping it towards me…

“Watch my face!”
*chuckles, breaks into hysterics, drops the pile*

I nearly fell over at that point, and then started laughing myself (it’d been a long, very stupid, day) — ended up on my ass among a pile of political signs. Which we promptly turned into makeshift weapons. DOLE spelt out top to bottom on a narrow sign = a sword.

Had another round of laughing fits from whacking each other and yelling about using Bob Dole as a weapon before we finished that fiasco.

—–

This story brought to you from my grandfather’s basement (they sold the house but the closing is turning into a fiasco in its own right)

Entirely more entertaining than Joe.

Especially when my brother asked “how do you feel about using an ax indoors?” (The answer was, more or less, “do it”)

“Feminists do not want women to escape prosecution on legitimate domestic violence charges” which, firstly, is not entirely true—there are a few feminists who argue that women accused of domestic abuse are almost invariably acting in self-defense. More significantly, it dodges the point that very many feminists have actively and furiously resisted attempts to highlight male victimization and argue and lobby strongly against gender-neutral approaches to the problem.

Citations? Nope. Generalisation of the few to all? Yep.

What feminists mean when they say “misandry isn’t a thing” is that because our society systematically privileges men and disempowers women, misogyny serves a different cultural purpose, has different and more damaging impacts and grows from different roots to misandry. To a certain extent I agree with that, but saying misandry is not the mirror image of misogyny does not mean that misandry does not exist at all.

Which is arguable, but not what men mean when they say misandry.

They mean what Joe means… as he goes on about all the ways men are “oppressed” by the system as it is, since, “feminism” took over.

So Uncle Joe is living up to his namesake and making shit up.

Tell the lies often enough, and the children will believe them when they grow up.

“Brains in jars, we are, with no physical preferences at all.”

Abbey … Normal?

Things more entertaining than Joe, in no particular order of preference:

Ringing a shipping agent who hasn’t a clue what ship they’re ordering stuff for

Watching the boss empty drowned ants from the water cooler

Waking up at 3am needing to take painkillers

Trimming my toenails

Cleaning up cat diarrhoea

Cleaning up cat vomit

Getting a much-anticipated cuppa and finding the damn teabag’s burst

On a completely OT note, I just remembered (having the leisure to do so ‘cos I’m at home today, various muscle groups having ganged up on me) that it’s 370 years today since my lovely man crossed over.

And no, not one of the sexy ones.

I could hear hellkell’s sigh of relief all the way over here

Also… WHOOOOOO BRUINS!!!!!! I have to type it on the interwebz cos I almost got my ass beat shouting it out loud 😛

I love it when men who in a million years would never have supported of (or “been sympathetic to”) feminism tell us that we’re alienating men who might have “been sympathetic to” feminism if only feminism was all about them.

Congratulations – you just trashed an article by pretty much the most moderate, pro-feminist and conciliatory voice in the popular media re. men’s issues. Apparently, in bizarro manboobz world you think he’s my friend or something.

I can’t speak for everyone, but personally, I dislike lots of things for lots of reasons that don’t actually have anything to do with you, Joe.

But guyssssss, think of all those hypothetical men that would have totally revolutionized feminism!!!!!!!!

Joey, you coward, respond to my post. Here it is, opening line is from you:

You:“ “^*This* is part of why feminism is increasingly unpopular…”

Citation on this?
I have a citation on why many critics think one of the big reasons the GOP lost the last election is because they alienated women — especially when they say stupid things about contraception and rape.

Here’s just one: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/08/republicans-learn-the-cost-of-alienating-women-voters.html

Here’s another from MotherJones:

“The memo, from Stephanie Schriock of EMILY’s List and Neera Tanden of the Center for American Progress Action Fund, notes that even the Republican National Committee’s own post-election report found that, “[Women] represent more than half the voting population in the country, and our inability to win their votes is losing us elections.” But while Republicans have made some effort to soften the party’s positioning on issues like immigration and LGBT rights, the party has not moderated its stance on reproductive rights or other issues of interest to many women voters.

The memo points to the unprecedented attack on access to abortion underway in states like North Dakota and Arkansas, the 160 Republicans that voted against the Violence Against Women Act at the federal level, and the ongoing fights over both contraception coverage and cuts to the federal family planning budget.

NARAL Pro-Choice America’s polling right after the election found that Romney’s view on abortion was the top reason for voting against him that swing-voting women cited in their survey. Planned Parenthood also used this issue to attack anti-choice politicians. Planned Parenthood also used this issue to attack anti-choice politicians. Another post-election poll from Democracy Corps found that 33 percent of unmarried women listed the attacks on Planned Parenthood and women’s preventative health services as a top reason for voting against Romney.

While I’d guess that Republican politicians aren’t looking for advice from CAP and EMILY’s List, the memo ends with some. “If the GOP wants to move forward, help its image and win elections, it should halt its embrace of extreme and out-of-touch policies that attack women and their families,” Schriock and Tanden write. “Ending attacks on abortion rights in the states would be a start.”

Increasingly unpopular? Don’t think so. Feminists issues sway entire elections.

Pretty sure feminism doesn’t need men in charge. Entirely sure it doesn’t need men like Hugo. Fucking. Schwyzer. in charge.

So, to summarize.

Joe : Read this article
Everyone else : Read it, think it’s a load of crap
Joe : Why do you think the person who wrote it is my friend? Just so you know, he isn’t. There are lots of people in the UK, you know.
Everyone else : Huh?
Joe : You are all lying liars and feminism is doomed! Doomed, I tell you!

You really are absolutely 100% determined to alienate as many people from femnism as you can. *slow handclap*

Pro tip: men who go “what about teh meennnnnz?” upon hearing about feminism, or who insist that systematic misandry is a thing are never going to be real allies. I like to weed them out early on.

Also, if that guy was one of the most moderate MRAs, you guys don’t have anything to offer.

I will admit I did not want to claw my eyes out when reading his piece, like I do when I read many MRAs (and you’re own posts). Instead, it just felt like reading something written by someone with no understanding of the patriarchy and social systems, but who liked to act like they understood them anyway.

@VIscaria

Cheesecake is one of the best desserts in the world,ranking right after baklava. I recommend you never trash cheesecake XD

Cheesecake is probably misandry somehow anyway

cheese comes from milk
milk comes from female cows.
female cows are milked; often male cows are slaughtered (I think. I didn’t do any research about this, but neither has Joe)
QED cheesecake is misandry

Do I think individual women can be misandric? Yeah. Does misandry exist as a larger scale institution ? No.
Misogyny, on the other hand, exists as both. Most reasons men are ridiculed for are also caused by misogynistic beliefs and patriarchal views and systems. Basically, men and women who are defending it – no matter what they call it or even acknowledge it – are shooting themselves on the foot.

Also, there is _nothing_ wrong with criticizing an ally or another feminist when they are wrong. There are entire websites dedicated to feminists addressing other feminists and their mistakes and awful shit they say.

There is nothing man-hating about feminism. When ever someone brings up something “misandric” every feminist I know has called that shit up – even when the speaker was a feminist too. There are exceptions, because people are different. Not everyone agrees on everything and everyone tends to have views that need to be pointed out as problematic before they understand that’s what they are.
(For example, trans*phobia, which is a common one. Sex-negativism and even some positive claims can be viewed as this etc.)

Also, I fail to see how wanting a ride is hypocritical for someone who is a “strong independent womaaaaan ~” – because if she genuinely is frightened to move out alone, it’s not really our place to tell her to stop being paranoid. Does she need help? Probably, but it’s not a completely unreasonable fear. Being independent doesn’t mean that you should do everything on your own forevaarrr. And as mentioned, it’s only one person within the masses. Hardly disproves anything even if she is acting like a hypocrite (at least when going by her own words). I’d need to know more about her views, personal life and experiences in order to be able to judge.
And, “all men are rapists” generally translates to “all men are potential rapists” – because it is not possible to tell if someone’s a douchecanoe until they show it. In some cases, the revelation comes too late.

And I must also add: women who say they “hate men” rarely mean that they hate all individual men as individuals for no particular reason other than the fact that they are male. What this usually means that they hate the system (patriarchy)
A lot of oppressed groups can say something similar about their oppressors.
When the oppressor says they hatproblee the oppressed groups, it gets a wee bit more problematic because of the power imbalance (and the motivations behind it quite often come into play).