So someone on YouTube decided to put together what was intended as a heartwarming and inspirational video — assembled mostly from Russian dash-cam videos — showing an assortment of ordinary fellows taking a few moments from their day to help out their fellow human beings, and even a few animals. We get to see little old ladies walked across the street, cars pushed or pulled from snowbanks, and so on.
But when Paul Elam of A Voice for Men — the alleged Men’s “Human Rights” site that posts an open call to firebomb courthouses and police stations in its “activism” section — watched the video, all he saw was what wasn’t there — that is, helpful women.
For you see, as far as anyone can tell with all that heavy winter clothing, this five minute video features only helpful men, and I think one helpful boy, and no helpful people of the lady persuasion. Mr. Elam underscored this point by headlining his post “Where are the women?” and ending the post with the very same question.
I’m not exactly sure why Mr. Elam thinks this is a particularly important question to ask (twice). I don’t know the precise gender breakdown for helping little old ladies across the road either in Russia or the US, but I’m pretty sure it isn’t 100% male. I’m almost positive that there are some women in the world who actually help their fellow human beings (and animals) from time to time. I’m pretty sure I know a few myself.
Indeed, if you look at the actual statistics for volunteering from the Bureau of Labor Statistics — generally considered a better source of data than compilations of Russian dash-cam footage — you will discover not only that substantial numbers of both men and women volunteer but also that, in the US at least, women consistently volunteer at rates higher than that of men. Take it away, BLS:
The volunteer rates for both men and women (23.2 and 29.5 percent, respectively) changed little in the year ending in September 2012. Women continued to volunteer at a higher rate than did men across all age groups, educational levels, and other major demographic characteristics.
I guess that’s where the women are. Volunteering.
If you’re interested in seeing the video that got Mr. Elam’s heart feeling so warmed, here you go:
Oh, wait, that’s not it. That’s not dudes helping. That’s dudes punching each other and acting like assholes. Here it is:
Damn it! More punching and assholism. Let’s try again.
Oops again.
In my defense, the videos I’ve posted are assembled mostly from Russian dash-cam footage, and I’m pretty sure there are no women in any of them.
Here’s the actual video, for reals.
I’ve seen people claim that they’re stupid because they’re not too fond of being trained by people or of doing tricks, which I find very silly for the same reasons you do. The lack of interest in performing for human amusement isn’t stupidity, it’s a personality trait.
Yeah, whether dogs spontaneously fetch or not has more to do with how much generalized (as opposed to more specifically directed towards actual live animals) hunting instinct they’ve got. Some dogs love to fetch balls, others don’t, it’s just about this personality trait.
If you wanted to measure an animal’s intelligence you had to put it, hungry, in a cage where it had to figure something out in order to be fed, or something like that. Like a Skinner box. Not that I actually suggest we’d make loads of poor dogs go through this merely in order to assess the intelligence of different breeds.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’m inclined to agree with the conclusion that Border Collies are the Smartest Dogs Of All because I love them and grew up with one, but even so I have to acknowledge that part of the reason they’re seen that way is that they’re super people-oriented and motivated to engage with us (though not always cooperative).
If we were to rate intelligence on ability to survive if turned loose to fend for themselves Akitas would rate very well, since so many of them were forced to do just that during the war. (Turning them loose in the mountains was the only ways for their owners to save them in many cases.)
Akitas are one of the more lupine breeds, which explains both their disinterest in pleasing people and their ability to survive (I didn’t know about that. How sad). But it also makes me wonder if, as with humans, animals have a variety of kinds of intelligence. How do you rank a dog that can learn to associate 100 words with objects, a dog who can survive in the wild and house-train itself, and a dog who can retrieve its owner’s medications and dial 911 in an emergency*? I don’t think it’s a clear hierarchy.
*There’s a special device; dogs dialing human phones with any accuracy would be very surprising.
* Maybe if they had really tiny paws?
I think this conversation leads to the same issues we have with measuring intelligence in humans. What are the criteria? Which criteria do we place most weight on, and does that say more about what we value as a culture than it does about intelligence itself?
Disclosure – I’m prejudiced by my fondness for the northern Spitz-type dogs (ie. the really wolfish ones), who often have a rather “fuck you, I’m not doing it unless I feel like it or it’s fun for me” attitude towards many things. And also by my own personality, which is strong enough that dogs rarely attempt to get dominant with me, but I don’t feel any particular desire to dominate them either beyond establishing that they’re not allowed to push me around. Much as I love those kinds of dogs I can see how they’re not a good fit for either shy, easily intimidated people or people who see a dog as something to dominate and bully into submission to prove how awesomely alpha they are.
(My confusion about why anyone would dislike those kind of dogs was solved by watching a TV series in which a Malamute belonging to a couple basically terrorized the woman, partly because she was just too submissive to push back when the dog tried to establish itself as above her in the pack, and partly because her asshole boyfriend reinforced the dog in that idea by treating her like a subordinate and laughing when the dog attacked her. I wish there was a way to prevent assholes from owning pets.)
Some herding dogs were also bred less to help humans herd the livestock and more to guard it and herd it while people aren’t there, and thus end up being poor at following commands but very good at independent decision making.
Yep. Though I think the tests do take that kind of intelligence into account – if they were scoring purely on cooperativeness then Border Collies definitely wouldn’t be at the top of the list.
Also… some people rate dogs as dumb who go into submissive mode when people bully them rather than fleeing, freezing or going aggressive. But submissiveness is just one way among several of dealing with bullies, and having that as your go-to option when you’re bullied is just a personality trait, it’s not stupidity. I think I really take issue with this also because it relates to how people often think of abused women as “stupid” for staying with the abuser, at least if he’s “merely” emotionally abusive so there’s no obvious physical threat involved in breaking up and leaving. But you’re not stupid for going submissive towards bullies, and neither are dogs who behave that way.
I’m against bullying dogs and dominating them just to show what a big bad alpha you are, and I secretly snicker when I hear about dogs (for some reason, usually working-line GSD:s) who finally snaps and attacks back after having taken tons of this shit. At least when those stories end with the dog being rehomed to someone who understands zir better – sadly, that’s often not the case. I think I get along fine with my dogs without constantly trying to assert myself as pack leader or some shit like that, and I know lots of people who do that as well. And yeah, several of them (as myself) has working-line GSD:s and BSD:s, not just, eh, “sissy dogs” (I mean, lots of people are prepared to admit that SOME dogs can be interacted with even if you don’t keep bullying them and dominating them and being the big bad alpha all the time – and then they’ll ad that with THEIR KIND OF DOG it’s different, since THEIR DOG is so TOUGH and needs to be constantly bullied into submission or else zie’s gonna go positively EVIL).
Re border collies and cooperativeness; I’m curious as to what breed you’d consider MORE cooperative than a BC? Isn’t there an obvious reason for BC:s completely dominating size large agility trials as well as obedience trials?
I buy that they’re not the easiest breed to train, since they have tons of energy. The easiest breeds to train are probably those who are pretty cooperative as well as having medium-levels of energy, rather than being super-energetic with really high drives. But that’s not to say that it’s less cooperative than any other breed.
Have you ever had a Border Collie? They’re easy to train to do the agility stuff or obedience trials that mimic behavior that comes naturally to them because they like doing it. If they don’t want to do something or it’s not fun for them, they won’t. They understand what you’re asking, that’s for sure, but that doesn’t mean they’ll do it. They’re usually considered to be super trainable BUT only by people who already have lots of experience training dogs. Lots of less experienced people end up feeling like it’s the dog that’s training them.
(Which is part of what I like about them. but people who want a dog that will worship them as if they’re a godlike being aren’t going to find them suitably cooperative at all. )
The only reason I don’t respond with glee when I hear about dogs snapping and attacking their bullying owners is that often the dogs end up being put down. I remember years ago hearing about a guy who tried the bully your dog into submission with your alpha dominance stuff on his Akita and the dog attacked him, and my first thought was “serves you right for being dumb enough to try that on an Akita”.
I wish I could afford a cat to purchase kitty litter for.
I’m sure the fact I don’t is also somehow a knock against me in the eyes of the MRAs. Can’t do nothing right.
Can’t aussies give border collies a run for their money in the competition? Mini aussies certainly seem to dominate their size category.
They seem to be pretty similar in a lot of ways.
Aussies are pretty boss. Smart too.
Yeah, I know they’re a challenge (haven’t had one myself, but know people with BC:s). It’s just that I don’t think there’s any breed which is MORE cooperative. There are far less energetic and driven breeds that are therefore far easier to teach everyday behaviour, for sure, but… there’s NO dog which will just keep performing and performing and performing whether the dog thinks it’s funny or not. The fact that you need to keep the dog interested when training it and can’t go on forever with repetitive stuff may make BC:s less cooperative than some imagined stereotype of a dog, and far less cooperative than the stereotype of their own breed, but not less cooperative than any actual breed in existence. (Or… prove me wrong by mentioning a breed more cooperative than a BC!)
Well, if you’re going to redefine cooperative to mean whatever you want it to mean, I’m thinking this isn’t a very productive conversation.
Cassandra, that wasn’t my intention. I meant cooperative=enjoys doing stuff with humans rather than just doing stuff on one’s own. Should have made that definition right away to avoid confusion.
I think BC:s, together with GSD:s, aussies and some other breeds bred to work with humans are at the top there. Other breeds need even more motivation to do stuff together with us rather than just enjoy themselves by, idk, sniffing interesting spots on the ground or something, and if you do manage to get them to do some joint activity they’ll tire of it faster. In general, obviously there are large individual differences.
Still, people often have this stereotype of a dog as a creature who’ll make endless performances with no more motivation than the occassional “good dog” from the humans, and who pretty much trains itself. NO breed is like that, period.
And being cooperative as defined above is a crucial trait if a dog is gonna reach top levels in obedience, agility and similar sports. Sure, you still need to be a super trainer to reach the top. If you have a dog disinterested in joint activities however, you’re probably not gonna reach the top regardless of how great a trainer you are.
When it comes to how trainable the dog is perceived to be by someone completely disinterested in dog sports, who just wants a pet as easy-going as possible, I don’t think that has got much to do with being cooperative as defined above. I think really calm dogs with very little in the way of drives are usually perceived as being easiest in this context. Dogs who don’t chase cats because they simply have no interest in cat chasing, and don’t jump up at people because they’re by nature not the bouncy sort, etc. Sometimes fearful dogs, if they react with freeze rather than flight, are also perceived as really easy-going and trainable, because they’re too fearful to excibit what we consider undesirable behaviours. But it seems wrong to me to label these kinds of personalities “cooperative”. They’re “calm” and “fearful” respectively.
I think the terms you’re looking for in that case are social or people-oriented versus independent. An Akita would be a good example of an independent breed, whereas a Border Collie is very social. When most people say cooperative they mean the breeds that are real pushovers and very easy to train for that reason.
Also random side-track – do people consider Border Collies to be good family dogs in Sweden? I was really surprised to see a number of different sources in the US recommend against getting them if you have kids, because when I was growing up they were considered great family dogs, for a family that’s willing to give them a lot of exercise. The sticking point here seems to be the herding behavior, specifically the fact that they tend to herd kids and it’s hard to train them not to.
And yeah, I get what you meant now, and I agree that it’s kind of disgusting that people use “cooperative” to mean “easily bullied into compliance”, but unfortunately that is how people seem to use that word.
@Cassandra: I thought I used these words in fairly normal ways, but maybe that’s just in my dog circles we talk like that…
The situation with BC:s in Sweden is a bit different than in many other countries. Firstly, most dogs here are purebreds registered in the kennel club, while in other countries kennel-club-registered dogs are in minority. Therefore the kennel club and the breed clubs that are part of it have lots of power regarding how the breeds ought to be. Now, the BC breed club has decided that BC:s are to be working dogs, period. They’ve decided that you’re not allowed to show BC:s on national conformation shows (since that would push breeders to consider looks more than working capacity), and you’re not allowed to breed a BC unless it’s passed a certain breeding test (which is apparently way trickier to pass than the American Kennel Club’s basic breeding trials, according to herding people who know both tests). They’re supposed to be working dogs, period. So it’s not advised that you get one unless you a) intend to herd sheep with it, or b) wants to compete in some dog sport that provides the dog with real challenges, or c) is merely crazy about dog training despite not competing.
Mere physical exercise is good, but can’t really replace the kind of training where the dog must use its mental resources as well.
THAT being said – I’ve never heard anyone say that you can’t have BC:s with children. Obviously lots of people who fit into categories a, b or c also have kids.
In the UK they’re both working dogs and family pets, and the family pets aren’t genetically distinct from the working dogs. Part of this is that I’m Scottish and they’re unusually common there, so we just have tons of Border Collies, and other kinds of Collies, around. I found the idea that herding kids is an undesirable behavior really weird, but I guess people here consider the fact that they do sometimes nip (my granny’s dog did that – never broke skin, but she would nip at my butt or my arm if I wasn’t going where she wanted me to) totally unacceptable when directed at kids. Whereas at home nobody seems to think that’s a big deal as long as the dogs aren’t breaking skin.
People sometimes have weird ideas regarding dogs and kids – like kids are somehow SACRED, and dogs must understand that (as if a dog could even have the concept of sacred), or else it’s a bad dog.
And btw, I also get the feeling sometimes that BC people here are a little fanatical with there insistence that “it’s a working breed, not a mere family pet, no BC could possibly be happy as a mere family pet!”.
“it’s a working breed, not a mere family pet, no BC could possibly be happy as a mere family pet!”
There’s a bit of that here, too, although how much it affects people’s actions I don’t know. Certainly I see plenty of BCs around, and there’s no way they’re working dogs living in the city.
For me (not that I’ll ever own a dog, alas) I wouldn’t take on a BC because they do need the time and attention and exercise, and I can’t provide that.
I always fancy the idea of a retired greyhound. I’ve heard from people who adopt them that they turn into total couch potatoes – understandably! 🙂
Unfortunately racing greyhounds usually don’t get along with kitties, since they’ve been trained to chase small animals 🙁