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MRAs at The Spearhead Blame Women, Feminism for Cleveland Abductions

ohio-house

So The Spearhead has weighed in on the Cleveland abduction cases, and has not failed to disappoint.

Spearhead head boy WF Price uses the terrible unfolding drama as an opportunity to attack the notion of patriarchy. His logic: the alleged abductors weren’t rich dudes, so therefore patriarchy is a lie. No, really, that’s his argument:

Feminists love to point to these incidents and use them to discredit the overwhelming majority of ordinary men, as though they have anything in common with the Castro brothers. They are used to portray every middle class guy as a potential menace to society and freak who would keep girls in a sex dungeon. But it turns out that, in fact, the fellows who kidnapped these girls are about what you’d expect: a few disheveled, low-class weirdos.

So why is it that despite the fact that the guys who commit these crimes are almost always on the bottom of the male power and privilege scale, feminists are constantly linking abuse of women to men’s power, and agitating for stripping what remaining male privilege exists?

It’s time for the patriarchy/male privilege narrative to be exposed for the sham it is. Privileged men are least likely to abuse women; patriarchal types are most likely to protect them. It is overwhelmingly the powerless, those without privilege and the undesirable who resort to crime to obtain sex. The few others, like Ted Bundy, are simply the exceptions that prove the rule.

Price ends his post with an especially nasty bit of victim blaming that seems to be a favorite trope of MRA types:

But perhaps the real issue here is that women aren’t as interested in making up stories about guys like the Castro brothers, because those guys don’t turn them on like Christian Bale in American Psycho.

Yes, that’s right: Price thinks that women worry about rape and abuse because the thought of being raped and abused by Christian Bale turns them on.

Of course, The Spearhead being The Spearhead, the comments are even worse. Norm starts the party off with this:

The Castro bros. will have many women getting their panties wet over them, especially when their trial is over.

Daniel, meanwhile, is angry that Ariel Castro’s alleged crimes have done real damage to … men. That is, if the whole thing isn’t a big false-flag fake:

The truth is, this was the worst that could happen for anti feminist public relations at the moment. If this guy – Mr Castro – only knew how much damage he has done to men by doing this.

The case is such a gift basket for feminism, that I almost suspect it is fabricated.

Groot blames feminists for driving non-alpha men to desperate measures to obtain access to “multiple women”:

What feminists fail to see is that as men are driven more and more by their agenda to the bottom of the power and privilege scale, more and more crimes like this will be committed. Unchecked hypergamy ensures that men like these have no real chance for healthy relationships and often take through criminal efforts what alphas and the elites have access to; that being multiple women.

MRA agrees:

Heroic singles moms created most of these men, we can say that is women exploiting women. The Betas and Omega that commits such crimes are the results of 40 years of feminism raising the number if these low privilege class men.

Keyster offers up this miniature manifesto blaming feminism:

Of course feminists have been playing a game of “self-fulfilling prophecy” with regard to disenfranchising men and destroying the concept of the nuclear family. This can only manifest and perpetuate itself through more instances of disaffected and socially pathological males acting out. The male/female relationship is what tames the male. And so there will be more cases where feminists can say – “See, men are the problem.” But of course there will also be more females acting out that will not be reported or discussed – such as the recent proliferation of female teachers sexually abusing students.

Jacob Ian Stalk — you may remember his 12-Step Program for Recovering Feminists — moves beyond blaming feminism and “single moms” to blame the literal victims themselves:

I have to ask, how did three adult women with at least one child between them fail completely to make their distress known, if it ever existed, to anyone in their own street for ten years, unless they themselves had no intention of being found?

There’s a great deal more this case that we are being told by the hysterical press. Call me a trafficking apologist if it satisfies your need for drama, but I suspect we’ll find the women are nowhere near as innocent or as victimised (if at all) as the cutesy-pie pictures being plastered all over the papers suggests.

Doc, meanwhile, uses the horrific story as an opportunity to brag about his alleged success with the ladies:

The fact is that men who are desirable to women have no need to resort to these types of crimes. I pretty much have my pick of women for my bed, who will pay their own way so that they can have sex with me on trips that I take, and otherwise do whatever necessary to be with me.

So thanks to feminism I have an unending supply of 18-25 year old women who are more than willing to share my bed. Why would I want to commit a crime to limit myself to one, or in this case 3? Seems way too limiting to me – it would be worse than being married. No thank you…

That’s nice, Doc. You’re a moral monster.

EDITED TO ADD: And here’s a late-breaking extra-creepy comment from Darryl X, edited slightly (and paragraphs breaks added) because he’s not only creepy but very verbose. Also, as you’ll see, he apparently thinks Jerry Sandusky was innocent too.

I have a sneaky suspicion that these women (when they were still girls) selected these men. The same way more than half of all women in the US during the past forty-five years selected men for marriage knowing darn well they were going to divorce him later, take him for everything he’s got and then marry up. Too many things don’t add up about this case. So many that I am even willing to question whether or not these girls were even kidnapped. More likely they are runaways who thought they were getting a better deal with these men than with their own parents. And when they got old enough to realize that they can do even better still, they stuck it to these guys (never underestimate the irrational boundlessness of hypergamy). … I don’t think these men are as guilty as the media portrays them and I don’t think the girls are as innocent as the media portrays them. …

When I try to think about how I would go about kidnapping just one teenager and hold her for a decade into her early 20′s in a suburban neighborhood, I am presented with so many logistical obstacles that it would seem near impossible to overcome all of them. Just for a few months let alone a decade. Then throw two more into the mix and that isn’t just near impossible but almost completely so. Not without their voluntary complicity. None of these guys looked to be of any excessive financial means. They weren’t rich. None of them looked like Einstein to me either. There was nothing accommodating about the geography. Their home wasn’t isolated from the community. It wasn’t off in the wilderness somewhere. It wasn’t remote. Think about how hard it would be to hold just one captive for a decade under these circumstances. Then think how hard it would be to hold three. The problems with that don’t grow linearly but exponentially. The cost. The risk of escape. Many other logistical problems.

I don’t buy any of this for a second. As soon as I heard this story, little red flags went up all over the place. Same with Casey Anthony and Arias and Strauss-Kahn and Sandusky (yes, I know). Too many red flags in this culture of feminism usually means something. I’m not sure what it means here but it definitely means something.

So, yeah. Actually, the other brothers aren’t being charged, so even that aspect of Darryl’s disgusting bullshit is off the mark.

Joeb, meanwhile, has a completely surreal and fucked-up Evo Psych take on the whole thing. It’s possibly the most perverse comment in the whole thread, which is saying something.

These men picked these women as sexual companionship , Not mating stock .
If they where looking for mating stock the number of off spring would have been Higher .
I think some men today get confused with Mating and breeding . VS sexual entertainment.
These men are predators but , They have Truly deprived themselves of the one thing men should be looking at , The quality of offspring .
I know its eugenics , but we all look for the best possible outcome when choosing . We want large Male children .
These men choose what I would consider ” good entertainment” but , Not worthy of my DNA .
We make suggestions ever so lightly around the MRA , the modern Male being smallish and effeminate, But when the Modern Male chooses his stock for procreation we chose fucking stock over breeding stock .
I would consider this an evolutionary sickness . A mental illness or defect . Witch is obvious in this case but,It gives us a chance to look at The problem ” for what it is , Inferior males seeking sex . Or like we hear a lot of in the MRA , Pussy hounds , Pussy beggars , These might have been white Knights if put in a social setting that lets them flourish .
Most Likely they would have been The same ,pussy beggars :with the ability to influence any social setting .

What the hell, dude. I don’t even know where to start with this crap.

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gametime218
gametime218
7 years ago

However, if you wish to challenge Bill Price, do it yourself. Why do I have to do your bidding for you? You quote mine from the Mancoat Forum and the Spearhead but have posted only a couple of times on the Spearhead, and to my knowledge, never on the Mancoat Forums. Why can’t you stand up and speak directly to those you hate so much?

Probably because David doesn’t identify as an MRA and MRAs have never been particularly eager to listen to David.

The reason you should challenge people on the Spearhead is because you claim that they are saying things that aren’t representative of MRAs and that quoting them is unfair. If you believe that to be true, you should be challenging the people saying these things – because they’re making MRAs look bad. If you honestly think there is value in the MRM, you should probably make at least a token effort to clean up your own areas of discussion.

Or you could just dodge the suggestion and continue blithely insisting that any violent, hateful quotes from MRAs are outliers.

gametime218
gametime218
7 years ago

I can’t tell if you’re deliberately trying to mislead, or just too fucking dumb to stay on topic.

My guess is, somehow, both.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

gametime – it wouldn’t hurt if crella and all the other “butthoseareoutliersMRAsaretotesreasonable” bullshit artists would actually cite the, y’know, reasonable, moderate MRAs they keep telling us are the majority.

How many times have trolls been asked and failed to come up with that info? Is it seventy or eighty billion times?

crella
crella
7 years ago
Reply to  emilygoddess

You people, any number of you, keep bringing it up…you don’t want me to answer your questions and comments? Why post replies to me then?

crella
crella
7 years ago
Reply to  Ugh

Where have you found any history of Thomas Ball being a child abuser?

How was he supposed to pay child support while unemployed?

Kittehserf
7 years ago

Why should we let a misogynist troll go unanswered on a blog mocking misogyny?

You could always just fuck off, of course.

crella
crella
7 years ago
Reply to  Kittehserf

Please back up claims of Thomas Ball being a child abuser. I haven’t read anything about him abusing his children.

Ugh
Ugh
7 years ago

@crella

Maybe google up his court testimony? He lost custody because once his four year old licked his hand, so he hit her so hard that she was knocked off a bed. And that’s just what he admitted to.

Any comment on Thomas Ball supporting terrorism and how that’s, you know, wrong?

How was he supposed to pay child support while unemployed?

I’m not sure how many times I have to say this, but courts can only hold you in contempt if they prove you willfully are choosing not to try to make an income and thus not to try to pay child support. Again, sitting on your ass all day is not the same thing as “having trouble getting a job.”

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

My biggest problem with Ball’s self-immolation is it wasn’t suicide as a result of pain outweighing his ability to cope. It was an act of protest. He wasn’t depressed. He was self-righteous.

And yeah, choosing not to work =/= unable to get a job. Ball was held in contempt of court for the only reason anyone is held in contempt of court when failing to make child support payments – he was found to be deliberately refusing to gain income.

crella
crella
7 years ago

Wrong state! I’m sorry for the error..

His manifesto is now the words of a dead man on paper. Are you saying he deserved to die? Is that your point?

I am answering the 100+ notifications of posts…not just showing up and commenting…actually trying to answer questions that many of you have put to me, and you categorize it as trolling? You don’t want the answers don’t ask the questions.

Ugh
Ugh
7 years ago

I haven’t read anything about him abusing his children.

Weird. It’s almost as if MRA sites are totally unconcerned with whether or not people who lose custody actually beat up toddlers in fits of rage.

crella
crella
7 years ago

“but courts can only hold you in contempt if they prove you willfully are choosing not to try to make an income”

Unemployment was a willing choice? Then why suicide?

Ugh
Ugh
7 years ago

@crella

No-one is saying he deserved to die. We’re saying that promoting the terrorist manifesto of a child abuser makes a movement fucked up as all hell.

What part of that sentence do you disagree with?

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

Because he was a self-righteous douchebag who thought he knew the truth and was making a difference.

Bob Dole
Bob Dole
7 years ago

OK: http://freekeene.com/2011/06/16/thomas-james-ball-self-immolated-in-protest-of-the-justice-system/

“He was found not guilty of simple assault in Cheshire Superior Court, despite slapping his daughter multiple times and causing bleeding.”

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

You people, any number of you, keep bringing it up…you don’t want me to answer your questions and comments? Why post replies to me then?

Um, what? You’re the one who wandered in out of nowhere and demanded that we admit that some women are attracted to criminals – which we never denied in the first place, and have now admitted, but you still haven’t explained why you thought this uncommon and trivial occurrence desperately needed to be addressed when (1) this post isn’t about that and (2) the denials here were so adamant because the OP was clearly trying to invoke a hoary old MRA chestnut about how women “really are”.

Please back up claims of Thomas Ball being a child abuser. I haven’t read anything about him abusing his children.

So you’re hell-bent on defending a manifesto you haven’t even read? Or are you going to claim that smacking your child hard enough to split their lip isn’t abuse?

crella
crella
7 years ago
Reply to  Ugh

I’ll point out to you that the ‘difficulty finding employment’ statement was a quote from an online article, so don’t attiribute ‘lying’ to me…

Ugh
Ugh
7 years ago

Then why suicide?

Probably because he was a selfish, narcissistic asshole who would rather die, traumatize his children, and promote terrorism than work for a single day making his children’s lives better?

Ugh
Ugh
7 years ago

@crella

I didn’t. However, the MRAs who wrote up that wiki page obviously were.

Have you ever considered that a movement that was worth a damn actually wouldn’t have to lie so much?

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

His manifesto is now the words of a dead man on paper. Are you saying he deserved to die? Is that your point?

Are we even reading the same comment thread?

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
7 years ago

Go away, crella. You are wasting your time here. You have no idea what you are talking about and yet you will not stop!

Kittehserf
7 years ago

“In a lengthy “Last Statement,” which arrived posthumously at the Keene Sentinel, Tom Ball told his story. All he had done, he said, was smack his 4-year-old daughter and bloody her mouth after she licked his hand as he was putting her to bed.”

Source: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/a-war-on-women#.UYxWBUoXaTs

His. Own. Words.

crella
crella
7 years ago
Reply to  gametime218

“If you believe that to be true, you should be challenging the people saying these things – because they’re making MRAs look bad.”

They’re all independent adults, I’m not babysitting the MRM to prove something to you. Since when am I under obligation to monitor comments on numerous blogs, comments by people from 18-65 ? Do you similarly police numerous sites to make sure no one is making comments to make your views look bad? Is that even possible?

Kittehserf
7 years ago

So, gobshite, now you’ve had multiple citations demonstrating your wish for proof that Ball abused his child, how about coming up with citations for the mainstream, reasonable, totes not misogynist abusers who cheer on rapists MRAs?

I’m waiting.

Not holding my breath, though.

crella
crella
7 years ago

” You are wasting your time here. You have no idea what you are talking about and yet you will not stop!”

What part of my comments being replies to comments I have in my inbox do you not understand?

Bob Dole
Bob Dole
7 years ago

Crella, normally your remarks on the impossibility of policing a movement’s forum would be right. However, you demonstrably post on The Spearhead, which implies you interact with the commenters there. We’re not asking you to track down every piece of litter, just throw away the trash you find on the route you walk anyways.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

You know, you could just say “well, I was wrong, looks like Ball did abuse his child” and then walk away.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
7 years ago

Turn off notifications, dipshit!

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

This is the conversation I thought I was having:

Pecunium: Why does the MRM praise Thomas Ball?
Crella: [description of his suicide] what’s the problem with Thomas Ball?
Me: What about his manifesto?
Crella: So you’re saying he deserved to die?

I admit, I assumed we were talking about Ball’s manifesto, since usually when Ball is mentioned here it’s due to his manifesto being on AVfM’s “activism” page. So I can see where we got our wires crossed on that one. But I’m really not sure how you got from “his manifesto is the problem” to “he deserved to die”.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

“They’re all independent adults, I’m not babysitting the MRM to prove something to you. Since when am I under obligation to monitor comments on numerous blogs, comments by people from 18-65 ? Do you similarly police numerous sites to make sure no one is making comments to make your views look bad? Is that even possible?”

Nice job of weaselling out of demonstrating that the scum cheering Castro and blaming his victims are “outliers”. Could it be that finding any reasonable, non-hateful comments by MRAs would be a futile effort?

You really are transparently stupid.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

What part of my comments being replies to comments I have in my inbox do you not understand?

You know you don’t have to reply, right?

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
7 years ago

They would not be in your in box had you not clicked the box that says to notify you of follow up comments via email. Right there under the comment box fer crying out loud.

James M. Martin
7 years ago

I bet this guy was on food stamps. Obama is to blame for enabling the kidnappings.

Bob Dole
Bob Dole
7 years ago

You know what, since we’re pretty much just toying with Crella (just imagine what would happen if Price walked in here), I’ll just tell you a funny thing concerning her from a few years back.

Anyone remember Globalman (I think he still posts under a different name)? The holy-crap crazy Sovereign Citizen (redundant, I know) who believed the Illuminati to be behind feminism and everything? Well, in one of his tirades about how terrible women are, he cited that he couldn’t find enough women to form a common-law jury to try other women for (supposed) crimes against men. Want to know the one woman who actually volunteered for such an asinine project? Yup, it was Crella.

Then again, it was on the Spearhead forums which are inaccessible now (if they even exist), so maybe I recall wrong.

Briznecko
Briznecko
7 years ago

I bet this guy was on food stamps. Obama is to blame for enabling the kidnappings.

I would adjust your tinfoil hat – especially around the forehead. Obama might hear you.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“If someone here, a regular, posted something crazy supporting a murderer or terrorist, does that mean all of you bear responsibility for those comments, and you all share that opinion?”

1) fixed that bit of ableism for you
2) you can bet your ass that if someone here called mass murder or terrorism justified, they’d get called on that shit (fuck, or supported rape being justified OH HAI Ruby’s support if prison rape)
3) a call to terrorism is terrorism in my book

emilygoddess —

“PS, treating Ball’s extremely public and horrific suicide as if it only affected him is also pretty obtuse. I get that a person who’s driven to suicide is probably not thinking rationally, but Ball, like ledge jumpers and people who jump in front of trains, forced other people to watch him die, which is not OK. People are literally traumatized by that shit.”

Please think about what you said here. There’s a difference between intentional traumatizing others (Ball lighting himself on fire while instructing others to burn down courthouses, like the one he was outside) and suicides that happen to traumatize others. And frankly, while the methods you mention are likely to be seen by a larger audience, anybody finding a suicide victim is going to be traumatized by it.

In short, oh fuck yes Ball was trying to inflict damage on as many people as possible, and a terrorist, but there has to be a way to say that that doesn’t get all victim blame-y at suicide victims who jump from // in front of things.

crella
crella
7 years ago

“smack his 4-year-old daughter and bloody her mouth”

He hit her once, and now he’s a serial abuser? I don’t approve of hitting children…but does one smack equal abuse? All accounts were that he hit his daughter once. One report says ‘multiple times’ . In the link that was posted above-

” His wife’s testimony shows he did not have a history of violence.”

If you lose your temper and hit your child, you’re in agreement that they should be taken away from you? If it were you, you would agree? No second chance, just never see them again? That’s right and just?

“Posting on the same message board as someone = praising them. Got it.”

It was said here that because some MRAs admire/look up to/praise Thomas Ball, Lepine and Sandini (which I have a hard time believing) that all MRAs think that way. I am responding to what has been written here. Are people just not even reading the thread anymore? Are you just firing off replies without actually understanding that all my comments after my initial one were in reply to comments ?

It really is disingenuous to reply to someone over 100 times and then claim trolling when the comments are addressed. What’s the point in replying?

Bob Dole
Bob Dole
7 years ago
Kittehserf
7 years ago

Bob Dole – I don’t know Globalman but that Illuminati reference sounds like NWOslave. I don’t recall any of the other wingnuts here going on about them.

‘Course he was all wrong, it’s the Furrinati we have to worry about.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
7 years ago

Criminy! crella. Read the name of the blog you are commenting on. Let it sink in.

Bob Dole
Bob Dole
7 years ago

Oh, this was some time ago, like 2010 or something. I will say that NWOslave is pretty small-time; I think I recall Globalman saying that the Illuminati breeded humanity (I’ve never seen him explicitly refer to aliens ruling us, mind, but he’s praised David Icke so he may very well believe that).

Of course, he’s dumb anyway because the Illuminati only held power in the 20th century. It’s all about MJ12 now.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“but does one smack equal abuse”

Yes.

And that wasn’t the only reason he wasn’t allowed visitation, he repeatedly refused court mandated therapy? anger management? Anyways, go read his damned manifesto before trying to defend him.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

Hey, dipshit, why don’t you try this: disable the email notifications, read the thread and reply to the comments you want to. Don’t come across all whiny with your “I can’t keep up you mean meanies!” garbage.

You threw out a “prove he was an abuser!” line on an open thread. Several people answered. Stop fucking complaining and learn how comment thread works.

I notice you’ve added “serial” to “abuser”. I don’t recall seeing that in anyone else’s comment. But do you seriously want to claim that hitting a child so hard her lip is split and she’s knocked off the bed is NOT abuse? You think “losing your temper” is an excuse for a full grown man, an allegedly rational adult, to do that? You think losing his temper that way because his daughter licked his hand is excusable?

Go step on a thousand legos.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

Oh jeez, Owly does pale to insignificance beside Globalman, then! 😀

… though the breeding thing kinda makes sense if you substitute Furrinati for Illuminati. They need servants with thumbs. Someone’s gotta open the tins, scritch their bellies, and take photos to post on the intertubes to reinforce their mind-control with TEH CUTE.

Ugh
Ugh
7 years ago

He hit her once, and now he’s a serial abuser?’

I didn’t say he was a serial abuser. I said he was a child abuser.

I don’t approve of hitting children…but does one smack equal abuse?

Um, yeah. If someone hit my 4 year old so hard she bled and was knocked out of her bed, I would want to see that person serving 3-5 for assault. Why should I hold myself to a different standard?

Also, as Argenti pointed out, even though he had committed assault, he still would have had custody of his assault victim if he’d bothered to show up for an anger management course. If I really had no control over my anger and it was hurting my kids, I would WANT to go to anger management to get control. Ball didn’t because he DIDN’T want to have to control himself for the good of his family.

Ugh
Ugh
7 years ago

It was said here that because some MRAs admire/look up to/praise Thomas Ball, Lepine and Sandini (which I have a hard time believing)

Search Mark Lepine in the sidebar here to find out just how common it actually is.

Better yet, post this exact sentence on the Spearhead: “Marc Lepine was a misogynist mass murderer who committed a hate crime,” with no extra text, context, or “but he had some good points,” and see how people react.

MordsithJ
7 years ago

Globalman is/was Peter Andrew Nolan (c).

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

The whole “you people would never criticize one of your own this way!” thing is especially funny in light of them, um, food fight we just had in another thread.

pecunium
7 years ago

crella: What’s your beef with him?

That he advocated, in his manifesto/suicide letter, terrorism to “redress” the problem of men who fail to meet minimal requirements to regain access to the child they beat (one session of anger management) being given that access.

Praising George Sandini? Marc Lepine? If someone here, a regular, posted something crazy, does that mean all of you bear responsibility for those comments, and you all share that opinion?

Not if we shoot them down for it. Your movement doesn’t. It actually lauds people who praise them. That is what you have to account for.

To the poster who claimed the side discussion of women and thugs was a ‘red herring’, I will state once more that that was in reply to a comment here. I did not wade in an post about it out of the blue.

That was me, again. Funny how you can’t keep it track of even one comment, but onward:

It’s a red herring because you are claiming this reaction is widespread. It’s not. It’s not even .001 percent of the population. Again, a far greater number of the MRM (amazing how I have to repeat myself) promote terrorism; and the rest of the MRM cites those people as, “moderate”.

That’s something you need to account for (and don’t, which is why I’m not holding my breath for a substantive response from you on the subject).

You people, any number of you, keep bringing it up…you don’t want me to answer your questions and comments? Why post replies to me then?

We’d like you to. You don’t. In this reply I am quoting you not responding.

Where have you found any history of Thomas Ball being a child abuser?

That would be the split lip he gave his four-year old daughter; for licking him. The abuse he was ordered to go to a four hour anger management session, and refused. That refusal is why he was denied visitation, which is why his wife ended up filing for divorce.

It’s, you know, in the public record.

You people, any number of you, keep bringing it up…you don’t want me to answer your questions and comments? Why post replies to me then?

Because you came in, all on your own, and started spouting shit (about how women are all aroused by, “thugs”).

If you didn’t want replies, why post? Did you think we were going to say, “Oh, crella says it’s true; it must be,”?

I’ll point out to you that the ‘difficulty finding employment’ statement was a quote from an online article, so don’t attiribute ‘lying’ to me…

Ok, I’ll just say you are credulously stupid. (btw, notice how I am managing to reply to all that you say. It’s not that hard).

They’re all independent adults, I’m not babysitting the MRM to prove something to you.

Nope, you are presenting them (and yourself) as reasonable. If they are, then you have no problem. If they aren’t; and you want to present them as outlier, you need to show that “the movement” is doing something to repudiate them.

Since you are an active commenter on the Spearhead, well you could show that you are working to make the movement more moderate. If you aren’t a reasonable person would assume the present behavior of the MRM is something which doesn’t give you any pause.