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Gullible Men’s Rights Redditors fooled by fake Jezebel article arguing that paternity fraud is “one way to break the rule of fathers.”

Some people are easily fooled.
Some people are easily fooled.

This just in: Men’s Rights Activists are some of the most gullible nincompoops in the history of ever.

The latest evidence of this? The regulars on the Men’s Rights subreddit were fooled by an obviously fake “screenshot” of an article from Jezebel that had been altered to make it look like a Jezebel staff writer thinks that paternity fraud is justifiable as a way to fight patriarchy.

No, seriously, the Reddit MRAs actually thought that Anna North of Jezebel had written that “the ability to lie about your children’s parentage is one way to break the rule of fathers.”

Here’s the “screenshot.” And here’s the original thread, which has been deleted from the Men’s Rights subreddit but which is still up, just not reachable from the subreddit.

The irony in many of the comments is off the charts. “It’s Jezebel, of course they think this way,” writes Riesea. “Wow,” says actorsspace. “If Jezebel had a sense of humor, I would suspect them of trolling.”

Blueoak9 — what happened to the original eight? — is stunned that even the evil feminists would sink so low:

blueoak9

There are, of course, a few teensy clues that North’s supposed quote about “break[ing] the rule of fathers” is a big fat fake (as are some of the others in that “screenshot”).

One is that nobody at Jezebel writes or thinks like that.

And second, there’s the tiny fact THAT THE REAL ARTICLE IS UP ON JEZEBEL AND IT DOESN’T SAY ANY OF THAT SHIT AND ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GO READ IT FOR FUCK’S SAKE IT’S RIGHT HERE.

In fact, Anna North, the author of the Jezebel article, makes an argument that’s the exact opposite of the one attributed to her in the “screenshot.” Challenging a writer in the London Times who had argued that “the ability to pass a child off on a man was a potent female weapon,” North countered that such a stance was not only morally questionable but also pretty antifeminist:

I’d rather “make male claims to omnipotence absurd” by, say, being economically and politically equal to men — not by making them raise babies that aren’t theirs.

Now, you might wonder why exactly the Men’s Rights crowd on Reddit was reading a screenshot of a Jezebel article and not an actual Jezebel article. Well, that’s because the Men’s Rights subreddit has banned all direct links to Jezebel and other Gawker media sites because the MRAs are still mad about that Violentacrez thing.

Yes, the subreddit that links in its sidebar to a site — A Voice for Men — that not only has offered thousand dollar bounties for the personal information of its feminist enemies but that also carries an open call to firebomb courthouses and police stations in its “activism section” is still pig-biting mad about Gawker’s “doxing” of the man who helped to ruin the lives of countless teenage girls by founding and protecting Reddit’s Jailbait subreddit and dozens of other noxious subreddits.

And so someone was able to use this fact to exploit MRA ignorance and paranoia about feminism and make the inhabitants of the Men’s Rights subreddit look like fools.

Again.

Or some MRA with zero ethics wanted to make feminists look bad and failed utterly. I think this is less likely, but with MRAs, anything is possible.

When you’re done reading the original discussion of the fake article on the Men’s Rights subreddit, you can read the discussion there about how they were trolled. Including the comments from this person who thinks that “even if it’s a troll… so what? It’s still presenting an opinion that many a feminist has held.” Straw feminism is REAL! And this person (with dozens of upvotes) who thinks they should just ban all links to all feminist blogs because, hey, what’s the point in knowing anything at all about something you talk about constantly?

EDIT: Thanks to the AgainstMensRights subreddit, I was able to find the link to the original banned post, and so I’ve put the link (and some comments from the discussion) into the post above.

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howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Nope, straight to ’11 KM!!!!!’

Because they got scared we were on to them.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

This would never happen, but if I were to hypothetically find out that my dad wasn’t my biological father, it wouldn’t change a thing for me*. He’s a good person, very kind, intelligent, and has always been there for me. He tells a lot of corny jokes, but that’s legally required for men past the age of 65. That’s what it means to be parent, not sperm or eggs.

*Okay, I would be confused because I look so much like him, but other than that, no big deal.

katz
7 years ago

The 11-km-wide yards belongs in the Manboobz Hall of Fame.

Abnoy
Abnoy
7 years ago

The problem with raising a child that isnt yours is that teenagers, especially boys, tend to be such utter ungrateful ingrates.. Once and when these kids hit puberty, and you attempt to try to discipline the adolescent rebel without a cause so he won’t become either a juvenile delinquent menace to society or a slacker bum burden on the taxpayer, they’ll just say to you “you’re not my father!” And if you really aren’t , what do you have to say to that then, eh? The average man lives with the instinctive subconscious/unconscious fear that his son will eventually kill him someday in order to replace him, and the only consolation is that at least the boy is his own flesh and blood, the new and improved version 2.0 replacing the old and obsolete version 1.0. But if the boy’s not really yours, then you are deprived of even this most merest and meager of psychic balms. Unless of course you have a mentor-protege, master-pupil relationship with the boy, but what if you don’t? What then, eh? The kid’s not yours genetically, he’s not yours spiritually, he’s leeching off your time, money, and energy —- your blood, sweat, and tears — he’s going to come gunning after you either when you’re asleep or when you’re back is turned and he’s still going to take away all your stuff when you die, damn, what a proverbial white elephant, except an elephant can be tamed and domesticated. Now if a guy willingly lets himself get trapped with the age old ball-and-chain with his eyes wide open that there was extra baggage, that’s one thing, but to be so swindled by human cuckoos, well, the hell with that!

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Breadmold continued pounding away on his keyboard, his face turning shades of purple. “Ban me! Ban me! You ignorant anti-feminist pro-MRA keyboard warriors? I am feminism!”

His phone rang.

He knew who it would be. His lifelong best friend, Catwoman. “Selina!”

“I told you, my name’s not Selina–did you see that! He banned both of us! Just because we live next door!”

Breadmold sighed, pushing his keyboard away. “I think I was getting through to them, too. Any minute now they would have realized that they had become the entire Men’s Rights Movement, just by attempting to counter them so vociferously, and they would have all shut up and gone away. We were so close! And it’s all bullshit, anyway. We can’t be the same person.”

She was silent for a second. “Breadmold… you are 11 kilometers away, aren’t you?”

“What? You know I am. Halfway across the city. I mean, it’s practically next door, for Toronto… Just a hour or two by bus.”

“And you’re not actually in the treehouse in the backyard stealing wifi from my neighbor?”

His crimson face went white as a sheet in a heartbeat. Shit. “N…no.”

“It’s just… I can see you. From the window.”

“It’s those damned feminist men’s-righters!” he whined. “Mom and dad wouldn’t let me spend all my time online fighting them, and I needed a new batcave–er, base of operations, and–”

“…is that a piano?”

“Look, I’m trying to break stereotypes here. You know that stereotypes are the most awful evil, upholding the patriarchy, matriarchy, and all that stuff. If I’m living in a treehouse with a piano, that’s about as far from a stereotype as I can think of, okay?”

She was silent for a very long minute. “Yeah, sounds totally legit. Now, we’re going to need to break back into Manboobz and blow their minds. They said something about socking. Do you know anything about that?”

“That depends.”

“It depends?”

“Are you talking into a phone or a loaf of bread?”

She checked. “Definitely a phone. Kind of yeasty, but definitely a phone.”

“Okay. Then no.”

pecunium
7 years ago

katz: It’s possible and I like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but then why not just say so? In fact, why not say so even if you are roommates?

Because it ruined the illusion. The idea was (I think) two people (one male, one female) who both had similar ideas; independently. If they were in the same place, (say a Bridgehead) that falls apart.

Actually, were it me, I’d probably say I was at my local coffee shop, and that my friend had dropped in and I told her about the mess on manboobz and she wanted to see.

But that would require them being honest about the tag-teaming.

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
7 years ago

IN REALITY, where there is no such thing as mandatory testing, would you cut off a relationship with a kid you helped raise and earlier thought you loved just because they didn’t share fifty percent of your genes?

Hell yes!

That kid is 50% lying cheat and 50% deadbeat. Let someone else raise it to become the stripper/janitor of tomorrow,

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

Howard: I LOL’ed.

Abnoy’s intrusion into the thread is… well, it’s just a whole big ball of personal issues, ain’t it?

Fade
7 years ago

That kid is 50% lying cheat and 50% deadbeat.

…. that’s…. that’s not how genetics work…

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Ah, Truthy has arrived to share with all of his immense wealth of knowledge.

Asshole.

Strippers and janitors, huh? Gee, I wonder what exactly this could be an allusion to.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

The child is also 20% bank robber on his mother’s side, and 10% farmer on his father’s.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

I read stripper/janitor as someone who strips while tending to buildings. That would be an awkward job.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Dvärghundspossen
I read stripper/janitor as someone who strips while tending to buildings. That would be an awkward job.

Also, dangerous. Wear protective clothing while handling bleach, kids!

Fibinachi
7 years ago

The problem with raising a child that isnt yours is that teenagers, especially boys, tend to be such utter ungrateful ingrates.. Once and when these kids hit puberty, and you attempt to try to discipline the adolescent rebel without a cause so he won’t become either a juvenile delinquent menace to society or a slacker bum burden on the taxpayer, they’ll just say to you “you’re not my father!” And if you really aren’t , what do you have to say to that then, eh? The average man lives with the instinctive subconscious/unconscious fear that his son will eventually kill him someday in order to replace him, and the only consolation is that at least the boy is his own flesh and blood, the new and improved version 2.0 replacing the old and obsolete version 1.0. But if the boy’s not really yours, then you are deprived of even this most merest and meager of psychic balms. Unless of course you have a mentor-protege, master-pupil relationship with the boy, but what if you don’t? What then, eh? The kid’s not yours genetically, he’s not yours spiritually, he’s leeching off your time, money, and energy —- your blood, sweat, and tears — he’s going to come gunning after you either when you’re asleep or when you’re back is turned and he’s still going to take away all your stuff when you die, damn, what a proverbial white elephant, except an elephant can be tamed and domesticated. Now if a guy willingly lets himself get trapped with the age old ball-and-chain with his eyes wide open that there was extra baggage, that’s one thing, but to be so swindled by human cuckoos, well, the hell with that!

… You appear to be leaking Freudianisms all over the place. I would offer to help patch you up, but you would probably say that my benevolent attempt at offering consolation is an expression of my inherent need to fill holes and that you are “Not gay enough for that to be a thing, bro”. I am so, so sorry on your behalf.

@Howard:

That was great. Well done.

@An Inconvenient Turnip:

Actually, “Stripper / Janitor” sounds like a pretty good idea for a book. By day, she is the janitor of the local high school! By night, she is the highest ranking stripper of the local bar! But what happens one of the teachers, following a messy divorce, seeks solace and encounters her in both… positions?

And the teacher is also a VAMPIRE?

AND A MILLIONAIRE?

It’s this summers hottest new best seller, Glittery Sparkles in: “Tassels, Teachers, Trigonometry and Tears”

And awat with bated breath the sequel of this stripper slash janitor slash vampire slash witch slash millionaire slash bondage hashtag true love hashtag marketing hashtag teen romance hashtag glitterysparkles:

“Math and Mops: A bucketful of A’s…”

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

The average man lives with the instinctive subconscious/unconscious fear that his son will eventually kill him someday in order to replace him, and the only consolation is that at least the boy is his own flesh and blood, the new and improved version 2.0 replacing the old and obsolete version 1.0.

…because all children are Damien from The Omen…

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

It’s this summers hottest new best seller, Glittery Sparkles in: “Tassels, Teachers, Trigonometry and Tears”

…still better than Twilight.

😀

katz
7 years ago

Pretty much all janitors are also strippers. I was one myself for a while. Gotta strip before you can wax.

katz
7 years ago

Floors, that is.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
7 years ago

Inconvenient Truth makes me hope that he and others like him never have children, because apparently when he imagines raising a child, his motivation is having a carrier for bits and pieces of his dna, not… you know… a kid.

Bits and pieces of dna that are completely invisible in nearly all circumstances. Who thinks like this? Seriously, who?

@katz:

I have a feeling that stripper poles are being horribly misused somehow…

pecunium
7 years ago

ICT/IR/Preggo-Punchout: That kid is 50% lying cheat and 50% deadbeat. Let someone else raise it to become the stripper/janitor of tomorrow,

Well… that’s better than the sort of misogynist who gets off dreaming of women pregnant women engaged in hand to hand combat to entertain men.

So if this should happen to you, please sever all ties.

Briznecko
Briznecko
7 years ago

That kid is 50% lying cheat and 50% deadbeat. Let someone else raise it to become the stripper/janitor of tomorrow.

I thought all women were born 100% cheaters and liars, and stayed that way regardless of their chosen profession? Truth, are you implying that not all women are hyperglamerous whores???

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

I’m still puzzled about the “teenage boys have to murder their fathers to replace them” thing. So a dad knows his son will murder him, but that’s cool because at least they have similar genes? WTF? It’s like Abnoy watched Star Wars under the influence of Jack Daniels, so he missed the part where Luke stops fighting Darth Vader and saves him instead. Or something. I have no idea, but that’s all really f’ed up.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

I thought all women were born 100% cheaters and liars, and stayed that way regardless of their chosen profession? Truth, are you implying that not all women are hyperglamerous whores???

No, see the son got 50% chaotic evil from his mom, and 50% lawful good from his father. That’s how genes work, because it’s science. For example, my mom likes to listen to The Carpenters, and my dad likes to listen to Elton John, so genetically I have to enjoy 70’s soft rock and disco.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

I’m still puzzled about the “teenage boys have to murder their fathers to replace them” thing. So a dad knows his son will murder him, but that’s cool because at least they have similar genes? WTF? It’s like Abnoy watched Star Wars under the influence of Jack Daniels, so he missed the part where Luke stops fighting Darth Vader and saves him instead. Or something. I have no idea, but that’s all really f’ed up.

Nonononono,

It’s BIOFAX.

Therefore, his assertion makes it so.

Just like his previous assertion that homosexuals were ruining his country.

He’s just a master of BIOFAX.

Fade
7 years ago

The child is also 20% bank robber on his mother’s side, and 10% farmer on his father’s.

I think I should be better at science, because I am 50 percent biochemist because of my mom

Instead, I can’t understand any chemistry!

Obviously, my dad cuckolded my mom and deprived her of her biochemist genes being passed on. The only question is how he snuck me and my sister into her uterus, because she definitely recalls giving birth to us…

The average man lives with the instinctive subconscious/unconscious fear that his son will eventually kill him someday in order to replace him,

This has got to be like, a reverse-Oedipus complex. That one that Oedipus’s dad was worried about when he nailed his feet together and left him out in the middle of nowhere.

/or maybe that was a servant acting on his dad’s orders, my greek myths are just as about reliable as my bible stories

It’s this summers hottest new best seller, Glittery Sparkles in: “Tassels, Teachers, Trigonometry and Tears”

Okay, that had me cracking up. XD

serrana
serrana
7 years ago

The worst thing my teenage son ever did to his dad was tell him he was watching TV wrong. Oh, and once he got really annoyed with us and hid the coffee filters.

Wetherby
Wetherby
7 years ago

Most guys would happily cough $550 to be sure whether or not they were a dad. I know I would, and I’m really poor. Some things are worth paying for.

I wouldn’t. Partly because I’m entirely satisfied that my kids are my own (even if my son didn’t bear a distinct physical resemblance to me, he’s the living spit of one of his paternal great-grandfathers to a degree that’s made more than one person go “whoah!” when shown photographic evidence), but mostly because I’ve been raising them for a decade, and I’m not suddenly going to change my attitude towards them if it was then revealed that their genetic makeup might not be along the lines I’d been assuming.

Quite aside from anything else, it would be monstrously unfair on them.

Shadow
Shadow
7 years ago

Aaaand Abnoy finally comes through with the lulzz

Briznecko
Briznecko
7 years ago

thebionicmommy: I see! Based on that logic I whould be…I donno. My Dad is a cop and my biological Mother (long story) works in homeowners insurance. I’m a walking contridiction! BIOFAX!

Kittehserf
7 years ago

Troofy and Abnoy remind me of that line from Fawlty Towers, from a psychiatrist looking at Basil: “There’s enough material there for an entire conference.”

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: serrana

Ha! Yeah, I’ve known a good few teenagers and shock of all shocks, a bunch of them are really nice people! I realize this flies in the face of all cultural wisdom, but a lot of teenagers are just young people who’re still learning.

RE: Abnoy

Wooooooooow. I’ma just… go over here and do something else now.

RE: Inconvenient Truth

What a nice loving person you are.

Seriously, y’all, this thread takes the cake for sheer lack of care assholes have for child welfare. I’m starting to think me and my system was LUCKY that we just ditched and took care of ourselves.

pecunium
7 years ago

So… ,my dad was in journalism, and I went into journalism. He is a professional photographer, and I am a professional photographer.

We didn’t meet until I was 19, and both those interests were well established.

Of course he doesn’t really cook, is so-so at gardening, thinks motorcycles are for crazy people, believes in homeopathy (and regular medicine, but….) can write code (not my thing) is so-so at languages, has no interest in spinning, doesn’t care much for woodworking, etc.

Did my mother cuckold him, or not? It’s so confusing.

katz
7 years ago

The idea that your child must be a no-good janitor-stripper because of zir genes, regardless of (or even in direct contradiction to) 18 years of observed behavior, strikes me as perfectly consistent for a group of people who also think women are hypergamous spermjackers, regardless of how they actually see them behave.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

So… ,my dad was in journalism, and I went into journalism. He is a professional photographer, and I am a professional photographer.

See????!!! BIOLOGY IS DESTINY! NO FREE WILL! JANITOR-STRIPPERS FOREVER!!!

Of course he doesn’t really cook, is so-so at gardening, thinks motorcycles are for crazy people, believes in homeopathy (and regular medicine, but….) can write code (not my thing) is so-so at languages, has no interest in spinning, doesn’t care much for woodworking, etc.

Let’s see. Troofy could concede that this makes a hash of what he said.

Or he could assert that hypergamy means you can have muliple fathers.

Sure, why not, sounds legit.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

My dad is somewhat nerdy and into sci-fi and superheroes, which I am too. Clearly this shows we share at least some genes. It cannot be because of environmental influence, which counts for nothing. My dad’s also a fireman… and my mum is a dentist nurse… and I’m a philosopher? How did that happen?

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

My dad’s also a fireman… and my mum is a dentist nurse… and I’m a philosopher? How did that happen?

😀 😀 😀

bahumbugi
bahumbugi
7 years ago

i’m late, as always. this was hilarious. you all are like the equivalent of a really satisfying sneeze. but an intellectual sneeze.

but re circumcision as i don’t think anyone brought this up — could be a public health tool against hiv. citation: http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

@hellkell – “if a troll hates you, you’re livin’ right”
yes

Abnoy is brilliant. The average man lives with the instinctive subconscious/unconscious fear that his son will eventually kill him someday in order to replace him. –
So the father thinks that his son wants to have sex with his mother. And will kill him.
Whoa.

Bagelsan
7 years ago

My dad is somewhat nerdy and into sci-fi and superheroes, which I am too. Clearly this shows we share at least some genes.

What, that sounds like my dad! DUN DUN DUUUUN. Omg, my mom must have cuckolded my dad with your dad! Or, um, vice versa! And that’s why I like sci-fi and superheroes! MY LIFE IS A LIE.

*sadly quits nursing school, goes to be a janitor-stripper*

bagelsan
bagelsan
7 years ago

Janitor-stripper: “I’ve heard we have some …dirty… girls in here!” *twirls around mop*

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: bahumbugi

I actually REALLY dislike that reason for arguing for circumcision, since condoms are SO much better and don’t require cutting off bits of people’s anatomy. Also, I feel like some people would just use them being circumcised as a reason they don’t need to do other forms of STD protection.

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

bahumbugi: Note that that’s a report by WHO, and is dealing primarily with African nations. I alluded to that benefit of male circumcision when I mentioned societies that don’t have ready access to condoms or regular hygiene in my Privilege-Check Post-Script. In the U.S., you can get better forms of the benefits of CMIC by teaching your kid that he should use condoms and play with himself in the shower (like THAT will be a hard-sell).

bahumbugi
bahumbugi
7 years ago

the public health issue, at present, is that people, globally, really don’t like using condoms, even when you control for tons of variables. on top of that, so many people don’t have the power to insist a partner wear one. so yes LBT that argument could possibly be true, although i doubt it, but people just so often don’t use it to begin with. and, yes freemage you are correct about the efficacy of the approach translated to the u.s. i personally probably wouldn’t circumcise if i had a boy in the u.s. (hypothetical son i don’t plan to have)

i think the ethics around the issue are complicated, but if it can cause a huge net benefit on a population level, it seems worth considering as an intervention in areas where hiv is endemic. i don’t know, public health involves all kinds of coercion and it’s overwhelming to think about sometimes, so i don’t feel totally comfortable raising the issue

Kittehserf
7 years ago

Abnoy is brilliant. The average man lives with the instinctive subconscious/unconscious fear that his son will eventually kill him someday in order to replace him. –
So the father thinks that his son wants to have sex with his mother. And will kill him.
Whoa.

Even Freud the Ubercreep would look at Abnoy and say “Son, you’re overdoing it.”

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

bahumbugi: That’s kind of why I refer to it as Cosmetic Male Infant Circumcision. In the U.S. and Europe, that’s what it is–a cosmetic procedure, with no real medical benefit. There are parts of the world where that’s not true–it’s a preventative procedure. While I’d like there to be a growth in the use of condoms, I am at least sympathetic to the notion that as a stopgap approach, MIC may be desirable in some parts of the world.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

I need to come up with some punnett squares to help people learn important things about their genetics, like if you will be a janitor, if you will be a stripper, if you like crunchy peanut butter more than creamy, and if you think it’s too early for classic rock stations to play music from the 90’s. Everything can be explained by BIOFAX!

Kittehserf
7 years ago

thebionicmummy – makes me think of a Rubik’s Cube.

Hmm, my old man was a teacher, did various management jobs after that, and has alternating fixations with religion, beer and football.

I can’t abide the latter three, and would never in a million years want to be a teacher or a manager.

Mum comes from a line of farmers and millers, trained to be a nurse, has mostly been a SAH parent, and had one admin job.

Nursing’s another job I’d never want to do, ditto farming or milling. Clerical work/customer service with one interval of cutting up dead things has been my job history.

Does this mean I’m not related to either of them because BIOFAX?

Can’t say I’ve ever felt drawn to be a janitor or stripper, though.

Hmm, but this does play into my theories about our general manager – I’ve long said he was replaced by aliens as an infant ‘cos his parents are lovely, and physically tiny, and he’s a lumbering oaf who’s a lying liar. He’s a lousy manager but quite good at fixing door hinges and carrying stuff. HE IS A GENETIC JANITOR, THERE IS THE PROOF.

… hope to god he doesn’t want to be a stripper ::barf::

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

@kittehserf,

Hmmm. Your punnett squares will be complicated. Based on the information you’ve given me about your parents, we can use biology to determine that you like kitties and pizza. Of course I did not make guesses based on your blog name or things you’ve said from other threads. I used science, because teacher + farmer equals feminist in Australia who likes kitties and pizza. And even though you say you don’t want to be a teacher, administrator, farmer, nurse, or miller, science says you do. Sorry, BIOFAX trump everything.

Now, who else wants me to use science to read their palms genetically determine everything about them?

Kittehserf
7 years ago

Well I ain’t being a stripper AND a farmer. Sunburn plus frostbite, it’s not a good combination. DESTINY, I DEFY YOU.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

A good compromise is to be a stripper with a farm theme. It’s like “Hey, everyone, let’s have a party and fertilize some crops!” I could also come up with innuendo involving seeds, cucumbers, roosters, and so on. Actually, I think most of this material would be funnier with a male stripper.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

OMG I hope Mr K (keen gardener that he is) isn’t reading this.

Scratch that, I hope he is!