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Thread for Hostile Visitors to Endlessly Rehash the Issues They Have With Feminist Research or Whatever

Hey, hostile visitors! Do you have an opinion about, for example, Mary Koss’ rape research? Do you want to discuss it even though the topic has not actually come up by itself in any of the threads and none of my recent posts really have much to do with the specifics of anyone’s rape research? Well, from now on you can discuss it here with anyone who wishes to follow you to this thread.

Added bonus: If you continue to try to discuss it in other threads you’ll be banned!

This also applies to future derailers riding hobbyhorses of their own having nothing to do with Koss.

Happy discussing!

Note: If you wish to discuss the topics at hand, you know, topics directly related to my posts and/or to what other people are discussing and that aren’t, you know, personal hobbyhorses of yours that involve long screeds and various things that you’ve probably already cut and pasted into the comments sections of various other websites until you were banned from them for endless derailing and general asswipery, feel free to remain in the original threads.

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CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I feel like the only creature on earth with enough energy to maintain that kind of rargharglebarglerage for long is a kitten, and kittens don’t really do rage.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Random – this cat meows exactly the same way mine does, and mine is super fluffy with the neck ruff and the big tail too. But she’s tiny. Is it possible for some kind of weird genetic combination to result in a mini Maine Coon that’s tuxedo colored? When I got here they thought she might be a Maine Coon, but then she didn’t get much bigger.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

I love Maine Coons and Norwegian Forest cats, they are big sweet babies. A friend of mine used to have (RIP) a 26 lb. Norwegian Forest Cat named Jesus.

I had to take Jesus to the vet once, and it was hilarious to hear the whole vet staff, vet included call him “Hay-sus.” I kept telling them the cat’s name was Jesus, just like it looked, but they weren’t having it.

Jesus’ very little brother was named Judas.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

What a beautiful cat – such a pretty face.

“It must be so tiring, maintaining yourself in a constant state of frothing rage and indignation. I wonder how much he spends per month on coffee.”

Just think, he could plug himself into a coffee machine and have mega-frothy cappuccino without the bother of learning how to get it right.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Are the Norwegian cats are soft as Maine Coons? They’re so pretty.

The other reason I wonder if she really is Maine Coon and just weirdly runty is that the chirping seems to be a thing with them, She hardly ever meows like a normal cat, but she chirps and sort of whines all the time. First night I got her I thought there was a small, lost dog outside because I’d never heard a cat make that noise before, almost like barking really softly.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

A human milk foamer! Just think, he will always be able to find work. They can stick him in the corner and he can mutter angrily at the customers, who won’t be able to hear him over the hissing from the espresso machine.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Biscuit chirps as his main mode of communication, and he’s about as far from an Maine Coon as you can get. I think he’s going to be a runty orange baby.

NFCs are super soft. Not as bushy as Maine Coons, but still long haired.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

Could she be a Maine Coon cross?

I’m trying to remember if any of our cats have meowed, and I don’t think they have. They’ve either trilled, managed to force out the barest squeak with maximum effort, or had piercing yowly voices. Sometimes one cat has done all three.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Check it out, she’s budget Maru.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

NFCs have the most amazing bushy tails. Never seen one in person but the photos in the cat books, cor! They were doubtless blow-waved for the pic, but you’ve got to have the material to work with. 🙂

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I’m guessing she must be a cross. The ruff is really pronounced, but she’s so tiny. 10.6 pounds, but not really adult cat sized, and not fat, she’s just super strong and sort of…solid? Every time I tell people how much she weighs they don’t believe me.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

The way Luna tucked herself around then made me think she’s been watching kangaroo joeys! She’s so pretty.

This is Maddie’s idea of invisibility:

http://youtu.be/GYYJmSkECds

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Cassandra, your cat looks a lot like my Meg. She’s a lot bigger than she looks.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

BTW, for cat people, you have to see this book (and the pics in it). Tiny, eyeless cat who saved his person from an intruder who broke into her apartment at night. All 4 pounds of him, and totally blind.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

There’s some dust in my eye, or something.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

I might just make that book the first I buy for Kindle. (Haven’t got a Kindle yet, but this is a good prompt!)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Here he is!

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

A friend of a friend in New Orleans found a little one-eyed kitten abandoned in his neighborhood and took her in. Wink is now happy and healthy and totally fucking adorable.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

That indoor eye grit is the worst.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

Halp

I’ve melted into a puddle of goo

Someone come and mop me up

pecunium
7 years ago

GNL: Nope. I’m pulling shit from thin air, and claiming that you will either make my point for me or that you will actually hold the postion of a straw feminist (making it a real feminist not a straw one)

So heads you win, tails we lose? GNL can never be wrong, only willfully misunderstood?

Who is the person with the cognitive failure here?

Again, I challenge you to find an inconsistency in my beliefs. Go to town.

And Cassandra, there are moderate MRA’s.

Where?

As to your, “strawfeminist”. You are right, it’s a straw feminist; no one believes in “a male only system that beneifits all men to insure that no male ever suffers”.

But that doesn’t refute that sexism against men doesn’t exist.

Sexism (as opposed to personal bigotry) requires that there be a system to oppress. There is no system to oppress men.

Ergo your strawman is defeated, and the original argument stands.

Logic, ur doin’ it rong!

But, since you happen to think sexism against women is right, and (using your oddball definition of sexism) that it is also right to be sexist against men, the only real question is what is the proper balance of sexisms to make everyone happy.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Oh look, there’s more grit.

Kittehserf
7 years ago

::trickles into cracks in floorboards::

pecunium
7 years ago

Persians chirp and trill.

pecunium
7 years ago

GNL: I expect that as more women get into dangerous jobs, feminism will step up to protect women, and make the work place safer for every one as a side affect.

So your “solution” to workplace safety is do nothing, and hope women fix it. You plan to do this by getting women killed in unsafe work environments.

Got it. Your way of engaging in workplace safety is to try and make enough women die that women do the heavy lifting of making the workplace safer for everyone.

That’s some killer activism you got planned.

The argument that you make to disprove the strawfeminist are the aruments that I want to make, but will get shouted down if I actually do make. Is this so very hard to understand?

Really? So this is what you wanted to say about the lack of sexism against men:

Sexism (as opposed to personal bigotry) requires that there be a system to oppress. There is no system to oppress men.

Good to know. I can see what that would be controversial.

pecunium
7 years ago

GNL: So, I disagree that raising the wages would be better. It would cost much more. A full ride scholarship cost about $15,000 /year. To increase pay enough to really draw people in your looking at MILLIONS every year

So you think you are going to entice men into an underpaid profession by offering them $45,000 worth of scholarships? Why will this work?

I would like to see about 1,000 so the cost would be much less

Oh… this is one of those places where you are for the sexism against men; what with not actually arranging for parity.

What you really mean is that you have the one and only truth, the absolute truth. You are all knowing and have considered all factors, no other input could possibly change your mind….

The Irony, it fucking burns. You’ve said that when we disagree with you, it proves your point. If we agree with you, it proves your point even more.

Who is the one with the Inflexible Troof!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Well, it’s nice that he admits that his solution to men’s problems is “get feminists to fix things”. By making sure that more women die. Activism!

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

Wow this thread exploded… And I see gnl still stayed with his shtick… God he’s boring.

::tries to catch up::

Kittehserf
7 years ago

You’ve more staying power than I have, Marie. I’ve pretty much given up on this thread. Between massacresthelanguage and InterminableJoe, it’s impossibly boring for me.

Fade
7 years ago

And I’m still waiting for your thoughts on whether we should stop burning dinosaurs before the planet turns into venus. (Come on people, someone bite please!)

I think we should stop burning dinosaurs, because dinosaurs fall into two categories: cute and awesome. But we should turn the planet into venus. Because venus is awesome.

In fact, maybe we should replace ourselves with dinosaurs and turn Earth to Venus. That would work.

…that’s not how intersectionality works. Seriously, you should Google or head over to the ever-friendly Feminism 101 blog.

GNL’s idea of intersectionality: Marginalized groups are getting stuff to balance out the marginalization, so privileged groups should get stuff, too!

No insinuations of some all powerful force that benefits men.

In order to engage gnl, you must deny reality.

What you really mean is that you have the one and only truth, the absolute truth

Do you realize that this is exactly what you’re saying?

So your “solution” to workplace safety is do nothing, and hope women fix it.

MRAs: Women are so entitled, they want men to do everything for them!!! RAAAGEE!!!
MRAs: Women will probably fix workplace safety, anyway. Then we can whine about how they’re feminizing the work force

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@gnl

“My positions and ideas are not far off from feminism”

Nope.

“MRM is feminism (minus perpetual professional vicimhood) (minus man hate). ”

I d not know what feminism is, but I’ve heard mras describe it. Obviously they are totally unbiased /paraphrasing.

“The only way to defend feminism is adhomin attacks”

I can’t actually argue against feminism, so I make up arguments. /paraphrasing

“presenting “Strawfeminists” about half the time I get the boobs arguing with me to make my points for me.”

Only in your mind.

@joey

“Likewise in feminism (google “radfem”), but feminists just shrug that off by denying that radfems are representative of their movement /”

Aka and if 90 percent of feminists were rad fems you would have a semblance of a point, but our hateful bigots are so much less numerous than yours. (Not that all rad fems are hateful, just always hear stuff about the anti trans ones…)

“Don’t ask men to fix them. That was patriarchy, when men were supposed to look after everyone else. That’s OVER now. Didn’t you get the memo? Because we did.”

Go fuck yourself Joey. We don’t want your “help” we just want you to get out of the way and stop opposing everyone else’s rights.

“Yes, clearly Earl was soooooooo fuckin’ priveleged.
Being beaten by his wife must’ve been SUCH a privelege.
Being told he wasn’t a victim, because: man.”

You are so full of shit. Respond to what people are actually saying. Him getting beaten by his wife was horrible. Jut because it happened does not mean he didn’t have male privelge, but I don’t actually want to talk about what privilege someone’s got when they were being abused when they were being abused. And since you brought this up, you stop too. Don’t try to turn someone’s death into your talking point.

@gnl

“1)Well, in truth I think talking about man/woman equality is about like talking about dog/tree equality. There just isn’t a good basis to say we are “equal” when we are so different”

Go fuck yourself you little piece of shit. Men and women are not dogs, and are certainly not trees, they are the same fucking species and pretty fucking similar, though I confess I have no desire to share a species with you, you little turd.

“I’ve run for 3 different government positions (elected official, not sewage plant worker) in the last 10 years trying to get myself into a position of enough power to actually get something done. I didn’t get many votes, but it’s real world stuff.”

I’m not surprised you didn’t get many votes. You’re a horrible human being.

“So domestic violence is 100% men beating women and only women? The only aspect of domestic violence is heterosexual men beating heterosexual women?
(Note the hyperbole here…..you can bet on where this is going)”

…you’re misrepresenting the argument because its the only way you can pretend to have a point?

Wow this thread is full of trolls…

::continues trying to cacth up::

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@kittehs

“You’ve more staying power than I have, Marie”

And I should stop, cuz I’m getting irritated by the trolls, just can’t look away… ^_^

@fade

“But we should turn the planet into venus. Because venus is awesome.”

…I object. For multiple reasons.

genderneutrallanguage
7 years ago

“There is no system to oppress men.”
But “The Patriarchy” hurts men to, an oppressive system is an oppressive system to everyone not at the very very top. There is not enough room up there for half the population. 99% of men are oppressed, and 99.9% of women are. So this 1% difference is so dramatic that it mean’s we can safely ignore anything bad that happens to men? (note:this is not a straw feminist I’m baiting you with) Arguing that women are more oppressed than men is by default arguing that men are also oppressed.

“You’ve said that when we disagree with you, it proves your point. If we agree with you, it proves your point even more.”
not always, but sometimes. It is true when I set up a straw feminist to be torn down. The disagreement over if Rasing wages or creating scholarships didn’t prove my point on scholarships. There are some good arguments to be posed in favor of raising wages. I think scholarships are better, thinking raising wages is better does not prove me right.

“So you think you are going to entice men into an underpaid profession by offering them $45,000 worth of scholarships? Why will this work?”
Well because teacher are less underpaid that fry cooks or lawn mowers. It is a much safer and more fun environment as well. The unskilled workforce gets paid less than the skilled work force, and that includes teachers. 4 years of food and shelter, that results in a higher paying job. That’s a great deal. As I said it won’t be pulling men out of STEM fields, it will be pulling men out of unskilled labor positions. Also, just because race is an important issue….The people that are most likely to be in these unskilled jobs are racial minorities due to historical oppression. Whites with the mental ability and will to attend college mostly do. These scholarships will mostly go to minority groups that suffer the intersection of male and minority in paying the high cost of higher education.

Fade
7 years ago

Arguing that women are more oppressed than men is by default arguing that men are also oppressed.

….

No, it is not.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Don’t get me wrong, if we could vote the troll of tedium out of our species I’d be all for it, but unfortunately I think we’re stuck with him.

genderneutrallanguage
7 years ago

@Fade
You should go read that Feminism 101 blog. You might learn something about actual feminism.

Fade
7 years ago

I… honestly don’t know what to say about that. There’s only so much you can say to someone not knowing that male privilege exists. I mean, what’s next? Gravity is an illusion? The sky is green?

I… I feel like I have to give up on this one. Will any of the non-trolls forgive me?

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Whites with the mental ability and will to attend college mostly do

Wow. Just… wow.

You also fail to realize that even though the patriarchy hurts men, it does not in any way systemically disadvantage them like women. Nice try though.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Troll is putting me to sleep, and therefore I give you big cats chasing laser pointers.

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@gnl

“Once people like you and every other feminist out there stops supporting the strawfeminists then we can have a real conversation”

…you…you really don’t know what a straw feminist is, do you?

“Do you *really* want to spend time playing word games?”

I don’t want to play word games with fibinachi. I’d get creamed XD

@cassandrasays

“Remember when they told a bunch of people who were feeding local strays that they wanted to help them, rounded up the strays, and euthanized them? Without telling the folks feeding them that’s what they planned to do?

I have nothing but contempt for those people.”

…I.. Why? What was their logic behind that? It’s just so bwuh and kinda creepy. (Probably would seem more creepy and icky if the trolls weren’t already trying to stink up the thread as much as possible.

“Oh, and the campaign that tried to fat shame people into vegetarianism.”

Gahhhh… Hadn’t heard of that one either… >:(

“Seriously, Kittehs, people have found dumpsters full of dead cats and dogs outside their shelters. They’re horrible.”

Faith in humanity lowering… I’d already heard PETA was as sexist as fuck, but lots of this is news to me.

Archeoholmes “But isn’t the idea using a passive commodity – boobs – aggressively?”

Cassandrasays “My body is not a passive fucking commodity.”

Yeah seconding cassandrasays, archaeholmes. I know I’m not caught up in comments, so maybe things changed, but you’re really squicking me out right now…

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@gnl

“99% of men are oppressed, and 99.9% of women are”

Like…citation way needed. It’s like out of the book of learnin. Only numbers hes using are super close to 100 percent.vary it up a little dude. It will give a small, small chance of making you look like you aren’t pulling numbers out of your ass, but at least it’s more than you got now.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Continuing the brain bleach theme, since we all need it. An animal rescue org that doesn’t kill the animals that they rescue! Instead they give them pumpkins to play with!

(And unlike PETAs absurd idea that you should set your Yorkshire Terrier free to roam wild across the plains, these cats actually shouldn’t be pets.)

Fade
7 years ago

@marie

The problem is, GNL thinks 99 percent of men are oppressed because they are men. He laughed about people not understanding intersectionality, but he’s the one who doesn’t get that men can suffer ableism, classism, w/e if they’re disabled or poor, but that still wouldn’t mean oppression against men

reginaldgriswold
reginaldgriswold
7 years ago

Wait, a 15k annual scholarship is going to give people shelter, food and tuition for four years?

??????

Even if I believed that, you still haven’t addressed the fact the actual issues that keep men out of nursing, nor provided any support for your idea that scholarships address those issues.

genderneutrallanguage
7 years ago

Right because in the entirety of human history there has never been a single thing that has ever disadvantaged men based primarily on gender. Maleness means a life that is nothing but puppy dogs rainbows and unicorns.
(please dear god stop presenting the straw feminists. I’m getting a little tired of rewording them for you)

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Dude, stop building straw-feminists. You keep trying a failing to twist what we say, because you got nothin’.

genderneutrallanguage
7 years ago

“Wait, a 15k annual scholarship is going to give people shelter, food and tuition for four years? ”
yes, The total cost of University in my state is 15k/year. That includes room, board, books, tuition, fees and some spending money. (the 4 year total would be $60,000 if that’s what you where questioning)

pecunium
7 years ago

BTW, as I was coming home I realised that Uncle Joe does understand the principle of privilege.

He’s used the argument which underlies it, just in a different contenxt.

He avers there is a group, which shares a common trait; and which the wise person considers; even though he admits not all member of the group share in the activities of the salient whole.

His argument is:

Muslims want to wipe out The West (or some such nonsense).
There are are some Muslims who don’t wish to do this.

But one has to admit that Muslims want to wipe us out, despite that some of them not wanting to.

So the class (Muslims) is has attributes not shared by all the members.

Just the way all men gain passive advantages from being male: despite some members of the Clase Male, not living a cush life.

So, The First Joe does understand the idea. He chooses to pretend it means something else, so he can imagine we are like the straw feminists in his head.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Right because in the entirety of human history there has never been a single thing that has ever disadvantaged men based primarily on gender.

On the whole, no. NEXT.

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