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off topic open thread shut up shut up shut up TROOOLLLL!!

Thread for Hostile Visitors to Endlessly Rehash the Issues They Have With Feminist Research or Whatever

Hey, hostile visitors! Do you have an opinion about, for example, Mary Koss’ rape research? Do you want to discuss it even though the topic has not actually come up by itself in any of the threads and none of my recent posts really have much to do with the specifics of anyone’s rape research? Well, from now on you can discuss it here with anyone who wishes to follow you to this thread.

Added bonus: If you continue to try to discuss it in other threads you’ll be banned!

This also applies to future derailers riding hobbyhorses of their own having nothing to do with Koss.

Happy discussing!

Note: If you wish to discuss the topics at hand, you know, topics directly related to my posts and/or to what other people are discussing and that aren’t, you know, personal hobbyhorses of yours that involve long screeds and various things that you’ve probably already cut and pasted into the comments sections of various other websites until you were banned from them for endless derailing and general asswipery, feel free to remain in the original threads.

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hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

^I can’t take you seriously. The laughage got me.

archaeoholmes
archaeoholmes
7 years ago

I’m not wriggling away from anything, I’ll cop peta is bad because of the awful dog killing thing someone said, and the sexual exploitation sucks. I thought the conversation had moved on for everyone, I wasn’t shifting goalposts.

archaeoholmes
archaeoholmes
7 years ago

Oh, all right. I am in Australia and I have to go to bed, but I still think it wouldn’t hurt anyone here to think of species privilege. It’s the reason the factory farming system sucks and biodiversity is in trouble. And, as Cassandra says, I don’t want PEMRA’s fucking help

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

It is a truth known to be self-evident that nobody, feminist or MRA, vegetarian or steak lover, wants PEMRA on their side.

He’s like the kid who was always picked last in gym class, if the whole world was gym class.

Pro-Equality MRA
Pro-Equality MRA
7 years ago

@CassandraSays- I’m not taking anyone’s “side”…. if you’ll note I’ve not been agreeing entirely with archeoholmes. I think she does have a point that “jokes” aimed at vegetarians would not be considered acceptable aimed at other groups. But at the same time, vegetarianism is a choice.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

And this is why there is not a single team that wants him. Nobody enjoys being bored.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Again, the minute I get specific about who in the MRM is inciting terrorism Pemmy disengages.

Take note.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I’ll take disingenuous time-wasting for 500, Bob.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

But the only reason we where ever having this conversation was because I mentioned PETA!

Yes, animals should be treated better than they are, yes other primates should, more or less, get the same rights we have. More or less because things like the ability to refuse medical treatment? How would you even communicate that? Don’t say “shoving you away” since humans are only allowed to refuse with understanding of the risks of treatment versus those of foregoing it.

Fuck, fish farms are horri-bad, for the fish, and for the local ecosystem, tuna should be protected before they are extinct, I goddamned keep fish, you think I don’t understand that they are capable of pain and suffering? Yet, amazingly, you don’t see me calling people who eat fish “That’s offensive if you think people care about their kids more than cows do.”

Most species lay eggs and move on, some actively eat the eggs, a handful do actual raise their young. But no, they don’t care the way that humans do.

And this? “The thing about comparing animals’ experienes to racism, genocide, transphobia etc is [justified]” is gobsmacking privileged. No one facing any of those things would agree, because with few exceptions animals are not just like us.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

There’s a genuine conversation to be had about varying levels of consciousness, rights, and how we integrate that into a solid environmental plan, but unfortunately the conversation that’s been happening here is far too simplistic for it to progress to there.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

For example, if you honestly believe that animals have all the same inherent rights as people then PETA would be correct that it would be completely unethical to keep pets. And yet in my experience most of the people who make argument a. do not agree with argument b, and exercise a level of control over the lives of their pets that shows that they do not actually believe argument a. to be true.

The assumption that this is the first time any of us are encountering these ideas was one of the things that made this conversation so weird and frustrating.

Pro-Equality MRA
Pro-Equality MRA
7 years ago

@howardbann1ster- I “disengaged” because that was completely off-topic and irrelevant to the conversation. Idiot.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
7 years ago

Uhm.

“Hah. yeah. You know how you’ll know there’s a woman in the room?”
“Uh, dunno. Smell of lady scented body wash?”
“Nah! They’ll screech for attention!”

or

“Hah. yeah. You know how you’ll know there’s a communist in the room?”
“Uh, dunno. Smell of revolution and molotovs??”
“Nah! They’ll screech for attention!”

or

“Hah, yeah. You know how you’ll know there’s a Christian in the room?”
“Uh, dunno. Phamplets and a scent of incense?”
“Nah, only in some denominations. They’ll tell you!”

or

“Hah, yeah. You know how you’ll know there’s a vegan in the room?”
“Uh, dunno. Smell of tofu?”
“Nah. They’ll tell you!”

I don’t want to be a major jerk here, but, uhm, as a concept, the idea of “Species priviledge” to codify a mode of thought representing a certain belief isn’t inherently laughable. Sure, I’m a fan of anthromorphcentrism, and stuff? And I eat meat, sometimes? And I have a hard time really settling the notion that plants, on some level, in some experiments are shown to experimence a sensation similar to pain with the idea that, well, I need to eat ’em to attain their chemicals to survive. (and for that matter, yes, the “Death gap” is a shitty, stupid phrase but as a concept it works. So is misandry. It exists as a concept to describe things, it doesn’t mean its real, but it doesn’t mean the idea is inherently laughable either. Have a care, here)

That thing with “Hahah, meat priviledge? That’s not a thing, now you’re being fallacious!”

Uhm.

“How do you know there’s a vegan in the room?”
“They’ll tell you”.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Stupid vegans getting all uppity and voicing their opinion, they really shouldn’t. They don’t know any better, and they’re always so sanctimonious.

Sure, I guess no one’s (or maybe just very few people) lost their job because of a hardcore vegan stance, but… uhm… food policing and astray glances and people mocking you for believing certain things about the products you ingest kind of, sort of, says “This is something I feel is okay to make fun of, at your expense”. So yeah. Maybe don’t?

Guys. Girls. People. Pro Equality MRA:

You can disagree with various notions and not be a sarcastic asshole. You can also mock things… and not be a total dick when what you’re mocking doesn’t directly inhumanize and destroy value. I… what the hell happened here?

Okay, so, I’ll admit that direct, distinct sexism is, yes, a more damaging point to humans and interactions. And the blog does say mock misogyny.

But seriously? What the… If I mention I’m actually a fantasy author, are you going to start slamming me for being a “Fantastist” next?

“Hah! You know how there’s an author in the room?”
“Uh, dunno, smell of frustration and rum?”
“Nah, they’ll tell you (About their novel that they still haven’t finished)”

You can say things without equating things without making light of other things. Also? For the record? Fuck PETA. Fuck PETA forever. Laudable goals. Shitty execution.

Anyway, I guess I can’t claim not to be biased, I just held my dog while it was euthanized…. So this probably a post I’ll regret in a few hours. Maybe everyone take a step back and… rethink? Or, don’t. Your call.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Oh for the love of graham crackers!

PEMRA, welcome tot eh off topic thread, where everything is on topic!

Cassandra — seriously, yes. I’ve read some Singer, and Dennet, and find the later both more convincing and more logical. But, of course, he both takes the stance that all life is important, regardless how conscious it is, and that consciousness matters in practical terms. (I am attempting to summarize from years ago, FTR)

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

You disengaged because you are not a moderate, and you cite folks who post open calls to violence. You are barely one step removed from the terrorism in the movement. YOU ARE NOT A MODERATE, AND YOUR CALLS FOR US TO ENGAGE THE MODERATES MEAN DISENGAGING WITH YOU.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Well, I’m off to a dental waiting room for best mocking when my brother comes out looking like a bleeding chipmunk (he’s having his wisdom teeth out)

pecunium
7 years ago

I see Uncle Joe was on about how only he understands the state of the world, and that White Men have it worst of all, because non-white men are becoming more equal to white men.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

We’re supposed to be engaging with moderate MRAs? Cool, let me know when one comes into existence.

pecunium
7 years ago

Uncle Joe: IMPLYING that people who are suffering dreadfully to the point they kill themselves, are somehow “priveleged” is absolutely discrimination.

I don’t imply it, I state it. White men (as a class) are priveleged. That you are too stupid (or blinkered) to see that is your problem, not ours.

That not all members of the class have a cush life, doesn’t change that they, as a class, are better off.

Would you want to be black in the South?

How about being a woman, anywhere?

An East Asian?

No? Why not, they have it no less hard than you do, right? Maybe even easier, because no one is upset at them for being, “oppressors”, right?

pecunium
7 years ago

And now I am late to work, and only to the bottom of page 10.

Later.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Cruelty is bad. Deliberately choosing to inflict suffering on other beings is bad.

It’s quite possible to believe these things without also believing that a snail and a person share the same level of consciousness.

The First Joe
The First Joe
7 years ago

“Well, I’m an archaeologist, and because fieldwork is sometimes hard to cater, when you apply they ask for dietary requirements – diabetes, intolerances etc. I got the job because I was qualified. But my boss told me later he chucks vegetarians’ applications in the bin usually because he doesn’t like them

…..
I am in Australia and I have to go to bed”

LOL

Am reminded of the Python sketch about the “University of Hullabaloo”:

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Hey Fibinachi: brevity is the soul of wit, check it out. If you want to call me an asshole, use less words.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Stupid vegans getting all uppity and voicing their opinion, they really shouldn’t. They don’t know any better, and they’re always so sanctimonious.

Sure, I guess no one’s (or maybe just very few people) lost their job because of a hardcore vegan stance, but… uhm… food policing and astray glances and people mocking you for believing certain things about the products you ingest kind of, sort of, says “This is something I feel is okay to make fun of, at your expense”. So yeah. Maybe don’t?

Maybe read where I’m not in favor of food policing, but also don’t think that it’s discrimination?

Fuck, militant people are sanctimonious. I’m not down with being preached at. Vegetarianism, veganism, atheism, all of it.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

So, the place where I was petting the cute little sharks as a child? When I did an image search guess what came up? This picture was taken just outside the grotto. Look under the boat.

http://www.sharkmans-world.eu/images/malta/gozo-shark2.jpg

My poor parents.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
7 years ago

@Hellkell:

Apologies.
Wasn’t calling you an asshole.
If expressed that way, my wit lacking. Brevity also.
Apologies.

Am leaving conversation.
Good day.

The First Joe
The First Joe
7 years ago

Fight between social justice warryors over what is and isn’t social justice warryoring = hilarious. Please do continue. XD

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: CassandraSays

…I don’t see a boat? It just looks like a shark in the water? Am I seeing the wrong image or something? *feels a little dumb*

Also, goddamn, an argument on veganitarianism. I’m… just gonna not touch that with a ten-foot pole. Though as far as workplaces that aren’t assholes about your eating, my last workplace never gave me hassle about that, actually. Then again, nobody took lunch at the same time; we were always so busy that it was best to stagger it, and most people wolfed lunch over their desks. I didn’t realize workplace jerks were so common and now I feel kinda lucky. <.<

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

See the little white thing on the surface? Apparently that’s a small boat.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

See, Joe, this is why nobody takes you seriously or wants to work with you.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Spelling warrior incorrectly = the most biting of all satire. Truly, now we are done.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Joe sure told us.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: CassandraSays

Holy FUCKBALLS, that’s a BOAT? I thought it was just a dorsal fin! Jesus, that must be a freaking whale shark under there…

RE: howardbann1ster

The least Joe could’ve done was post pro-wrestler stuff. And I’ve never quite understood why ‘social justice warrior’ is supposed to be an insult. Because, uh, yeah, lots of activists in the past suffered violence for their beliefs, and some fought back. Why should that fact make me feel insulted?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I don’t think it can be a fin because the color or shape are wrong. Some sort of a raft maybe? The bottom looks flat.

I think it’s a great white, since there are lots of those in Malta. I just didn’t think they got that close to the grotto (that I was dipping my little hands in).

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

@CassandraSays: something’s off in the picture there.

@LBT: the unspoken connotation of ‘Social Justice Warrior’ is that the warrior at the end is sarcastic. That, y’know, it’s a bunch of people not actually doing anything to make anything better, just whining and complaining.

Which, um, yeah… first of all, just talking about things online, alone? Is more powerful than you might think. It spreads the message. It refines the message.

And of the cross-section of manboobzers I have come to know a little better, the majority of them do, in fact, do a lot more than just talk. In fact, some of them are pretty damn active.

So it’s one of those little things like “slactivists” that kind of rolls of my back. It’s like, yeah, sure, Joe, none of us are doing anything. Project a little harder.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I keep suggesting to Joe that he go do some activism of his own rather than yelling at people here, and yet he does not appear to have done so. I guess he thinks that yelling at people on Manboobz is productive?

The First Joe
The First Joe
7 years ago

Awww, shame, I was really enjoying watching you turn on each other, at the first hint of divergence from the accepted group dogma.

I guess nothing unifies like being able to point the finger at “the other”, eh?
If MRAs didn’t exist, who would be the recipient of your Two Minutes Hate, I wonder?

The entire politics of feminism / PC relies on dividing people into groups of the more “worthy” and the less “worthy” of help / funding / support, it is inherently divisive and destructive.

@howardbannister – social justice warriors = holier-than-thou, sanctimonious, preachy wankers. Which is why it’s a dis term, of course.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

So that’s a no on the suggestion that you do some activism instead of yelling at people here, then.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Yeah, we’re the ones with the ‘holier-than-thou’ attitude.

Project harder.

The First Joe
The First Joe
7 years ago

Correction: if heterosexual men didn’t exist who would be the recipient of your Two Minutes Hate, I wonder?

Fade
7 years ago

@Joe

don’t forget white hetero sexual men!

/sarcasam

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: First Joe

Still be you. You act like you’re the only straight dude here.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Yesterday he was all “there is a problem that needs to be addressed and I think maybe I’ll do something about it!” and today he’s right back to screaming pointlessly at feminists. I am very disappointed in your progress, Joe.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: CassandraSays

I think my eyes are giving me trouble; the image is too small for me to really see the boat. Still, I can appreciate that it’s a big honkin’ shark, though!

RE: Joe

social justice warriors = holier-than-thou, sanctimonious, preachy wankers. Which is why it’s a dis term, of course.

So… couldn’t you just SAY that? I mean, I’m not going to call you a… I dunno, a purple-cape wearing lizardface when you are, in fact, just plain dull.

RE: howardbann1ster

I actually have encountered ‘slactivism’ (I have a whole canned rant about how some people on tumblr seem to think it’s brilliant activism to make a vague statement about oppression, state their intention to do NOTHING about it, then break their arm patting themselves on the back) but those people tend to be extremely defensive about their activist cred. And to be fair, people on the Internet discussing stuff is actually how I discovered feminism, trans theory, and disability/neurodiversity stuff!

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Joe: do you honestly think we never argue? You’re dumb.

inurashii
inurashii
7 years ago

Joe, masturbating in public is rude. Go away.

Shiraz
Shiraz
7 years ago

I feel like I should be handing out cups of Gatorade to some of the posters here — the one’s who are dealing with such much stupid.

**make saluting gesture**

gametime218
gametime218
7 years ago

It’s interesting how when a majority of posters here are in agreement Joe is all “GROUPTHINK! HIVEMIND!” and when some posters here aren’t totally in agreement Joe is all “GROUPTHINK COLLAPSING IN ON ITSELF! HIVEMIND TURNING ON ONE ANOTHER!”

It’s almost as though literally any behaviour exhibited by people he disagrees with is dismissed as being the result of inferior cognitive processes because he can’t be bothered to engage with actual arguments. Weird.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Do I get some of the Gatorade, and can I mix it with coffee? I never expected to have to explain why PETA sucks to a feminist. Tired now.

genderneutrallanguage
7 years ago

“You’re pulling bullshit form thin air and then claiming that we can’t disprove something that no one here said we believe.”
Nope. I’m pulling shit from thin air, and claiming that you will either make my point for me or that you will actually hold the postion of a straw feminist (making it a real feminist not a straw one)
There is some hard core double think going on. Men’s rights are horrible horrible evil misyoginists sexist pigs that want women in chains…….but when presented properly, you argue every point I want to make. Well one time you agreed with the straw feminist. That’s some serious double think, it’s double plus good think.

Aaliyah
7 years ago

The entire politics of feminism / PC relies on dividing people into groups of the more “worthy” and the less “worthy” of help / funding / support, it is inherently divisive and destructive.

This is pretty much proof that you don’t really understand the majority of social justice discourse because, while there is a division of people into groups, it’s not “worthy” and “unworthy.” Rather, it’s “those more affected by oppression” and “those who are less affected by oppression.” And in no way does it contradict the notion that everyone deserves help.

But then again you were stupid enough to believe that the people here follow a ridiculous standpoint epistemology, so I shouldn’t be surprised.

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