Thread for Hostile Visitors to Endlessly Rehash the Issues They Have With Feminist Research or Whatever

I have to say that if I roll my eyes any harder someone is going to have to come over and help me find my missing eyeballs before the cat hides them under the couch.

Cassandra, you don’t agree with me. But I don’t think other species are less because they aren’t human.

And there they go. I hope she doesn’t chew on them, I’m going to need them back later.

I have to say I feel like I’m challenging privilige here by sticking up other species.

Oh Jesus Fucking CHRIST.

And anit-vegetarian discrimination? Get stuffed.

My eyeballs have dislocated from the rolling.

Hellkell, I can assure you anti-vego discrimination exists.

WHERE?

For the sake of what remains of my equilibrium I am going to choose to read that as anti-Viggo discrimination, and wonder why anyone would hate Aragorn.

Joe — go reread the bits where I had to stop because I was getting all broken up. Try, for just a moment it actually listen to what we’re saying here — just because someone is disadvantaged in some situations does not mean that they are not advantaged on average.

And kyriarchy is the recognition that intersectionality is a think, that MoC are less privileged than white men. That the vast majority of the world only acknowledges trans* people to sling slur, or worse.

“You’re talking about your problems now. Tell me, have you asked the various services in your area for help? What was their response? Were you told you didn’t qualify because of your gender?”

Here? Or the place I lived before my lack of qualifying forced me to move back in with my parents?

So again I say, fuck off.

Also, Joe on Islamophobia here. (note: he says it isn’t a Thing)

Well, I’m an archaeologist, and because fieldwork is sometimes hard to cater, when you apply they ask for dietary requirements – diabetes, intolerances etc. I got the job because I was qualified. But my boss told me later he chucks vegetarians’ applications in the bin usually because he doesn’t like them

Cassandra — because he refuses to be king no matter how important that might be!

Oh, yes, the poor oppressed vegetarians. Seriously? Get off the cross, we need the wood.

Reminds me of the joke: How do you know there’s a vegan in the room? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.

Also he’s not an elf. It’s hard not being an elf.

Archaeo: that means your boss is a dick, not that vegetarians are discriminated against on a wide, systemic scale.

Also, I have been a vegetarian most of my life, and believe me, the number of times I’ve had to have an argument at work just for eating a tofu stir-fry instead of a beef one. I’m heartily sick of vego arguments, I eat away from everyone not to have them anymore.

Yea, poor me.

Still not rising to level of discrimination. Work places are hotbeds of food policing, doesn’t matter what you eat. It sucks, but not exactly the burning issues of our times.

Hellkell, yes, he was a dick, and not just in that respect either. Jesus, what an arsehole he was. But can you just take my word for it that if you are a vego, you never hear the fucking end of it? Like now.

It is a positive thing to love, respect, appreciate, defend & admire animals, and a positive thing to diminish animal suffering. Most people here do. Many do in different ways.

However, it is a negative thing to drum up support for animal welfare by appropriating the suffering of marginalized people, because the net result is to damage multiple social welfare campaigns, alienating and hurting many.

*stares at two points*

how did it end up like this

Hmm. I mean, I certainly hear vegetarian *jokes*, and if those jokes were directed at a Designated Oppressed Group the SJWs would be up in arms. Then again, I hear similar jokes directed at almost all groups… nerds, jocks, farmers, etc. I feel like there’s really no history of “vegetarian oppression”, plus it’s a chosen lifestyle… so it’s more an example of people just being assholes.

Thoughts?

No. Because I know plenty of vegetarians living persecution-free existences. Maybe because they don’t preach?

PEMRAL, I have thought: piss off.

But can you just take my word for it that if you are a vego, you never hear the fucking end of it? Like now.

If this thread is any indication then the reason you never hear the end of it may not be quite what you think it is.

PEMRA having a thought? That would be nice, but I’m not expecting it to happen any time soon.

No, this thread is no indication. I usually leave it alone. I don’t remember how this started, in fact.

GNL: Do you know what you are saying? Do you know why you are saying it?

Because here is what I am seeing you say:

You exaggerate things , so that when you get called on it you can say, “GOTCHA”!

That is dishonest. It’s a lie. I think it’s because when you start with, “Is there a gender difference in the ratio of ‘x’?”, you get facts, and the facts are not friendly to you.

Question… (this is the form of question you say matters).

Is there a gender imbalance in the rate of deaths between genders in the pipefitting trade?

How about in the construction trade?

In Nursing?

In the military (by job specialty)?

Not all men/all women in all jobs. Men and women in the same job.

Now apply that same set of questions to pay (same job, with the same education and experience).

The “death gap” doesn’t exist. The wage gap does.

Why is that?

Because chuckleheads like you insist that “we aren’t equal, and it’s wrong to say we should all be treated the same”.

You, son, are arguing for, “The Bell Curve”, only with gender instead of race. The only way you can do that, is to lie.

So you lie. You try to dress your lies up by calling them, “Hyperbole”, but at the end of the day you aren’t using it to illustrate a point, but to create a false understanding of the facts.

I.e. to lie.

GNL: Showing you your own internal cognitive dissonance. Basically you can only really attack most things that are “anti-feminist” by saying things that you really don’t believe and can’t support.

Bullshit.

Here is what I believe. Men and women are not fundamentally different in their needs, abilities, and desires.

Therefore they should not be treated differently.

Go ahead, show my, “cognitive dissonance”. Show me the, “straw feminism” I have to use to believe that.

I dare ya.

Kirby: Alright, I admit defeat. You’ve completely lost me. Why would I, as a feminist, support something that is “anti-feminist?” Are those scare quotes, implying that the thing is really feminist, but for some reason I don’t want to admit that I support it?

Yes. He is playing “Humpty-Dumpty”, words mean what he wants them to mean.

The present inequality in wages… is actually good feminism.

Denying women access to BC, is actually good feminism.

He thinks he is “rebalancing” the world, to achieve the “proper relation between the sexes”, and this is “feminism”.

talking about man/woman equality is about like talking about dog/tree equality. There just isn’t a good basis to say we are “equal” when we are so different….In the short run the conversation needs to change. We are still talking about equality, and in the short run that won’t change. In the short run equality is a good thing to talk about, it fails as a long term goal.

His underlying basis for the world is anti-equality; he sees feminism saying they want a world where men and women are free to be what they want, and he filters it through the idea that men and women (at root) can’t want the same thing, so feminists are illogical; there is, he thinks, a fundamental dissonance to feminism.

It’s not that he disagrees, he thinks it’s impossible.

Which is why he is 1: confusing, and 2: dishonest.

He has to believe 6 impossible things before breakfast.

@CassandraSays/hellkell- That’s nice, but care to respond to my actual post?

Not really, no. Run along now.

Sure, Pemmy, since Cassandra doesn’t feel like it I’ll respond.

It’s a load of horseshit that ignores actualy stuff like oppression to cargo-cult-social-justice ‘but this souuuuunds like social justice’ whine, while still ignoring the calls to terrorism in your own movement.

Happy now?

Ok, to be fair, I never heard the end of it when I wasn’t eating meat at all…but mostly “huh, I thought vegetarians we’re all sickly an anemic and shit, you look healthy” so I mean yeah, food policing, body policing, but discrimination? Not so much.

The comments do happen, but I suspect that’s the case in general.

Thanks. Still looking for my missing eyeballs over here.

This has been the weirdest thread ever.

Not really, PEMRAL. Go away.

@Cassandra

and it’s already got 733 comments. It’s moving much faster than I thought…

If there’s an office where food policing doesn’t happen then can someone tell me the name of the company? It might be a good place to work.

(Hint – it doesn’t exist.)

I’d like to work at this fantasy company too. I get asked all the time what I’m eating. It’s annoying, that’s about it.

I got asked why I didn’t eat frozen meals once, with the implication being that I was a big snob for not doing so. People are so weird about food.

Cassandra — my software job gave exactly zero fucks, about most things. Including, unfortunately, the coworker who took two hour lunch breaks and returned in gym clothing.

Cassandra, this is not a weird conversation, It’s been going on since JS Mill whether animals deserve rights equal to humans. There is a movement at the moment pushing for equal rights for other primates in the UN. I’m not a total flake. My minor at uni was philosophy and some of that was taken up with whether other animals are persons. It’s a big question right now, especially in light of the dreadful excesses of factory farming. And it is being framed in terms of priviege too. It’s a long-standing debate.

FirstJoe also would like you to check your ‘got-born’ privilege. But he’s pro-choice. Also, for paper abortions/parental abandonment.

Argenti: …what non-porno campaigns? That aren’t patently silly, like that spider stunt?

There was the year they had spoofed the milk ,mustache campaign with, “Got Beer”. It had college aged kids on it.

Way to go.

What’s weird about this conversation is the fact that you keep attributing attitudes and opinions to people that they haven’t expressed. We get that from trolls all the time, but not usually from regulars.

At Peoplesoft my coworkers bugged me about not eating the free donuts in the morning. Was I on a diet? Was I too good for their donuts?

Dude, I don’t like donuts for breakfast. Deal. If there are still some left in the afternoon I’l’ have one then.

You know, this is a privilege discussion. Like I said, I have been vego since I was a kid, I try and tell you how I have had shit put on me, and you disagree with me because you never saw it happen. For fucks sake! Does this remind you of anything?

@howardbann1ster- True, I don’t disagree with the appropriation charge. However, terrorism? I’m aware of certain extremists but their rarity makes it akin to citing Aileen Wuornos as a feminist, or the lady who shot warhol. It isn’t really fair to associate the Liberation Front or even PETA with “vegetarians”.

No, this is you trying to wriggle out from under the criticism you go about the PETA thing and shift the goalposts.

A VOICE FOR FUCKING MEN.

This is not the first time we have pointed this out.

You know, this is a privilege discussion. Like I said, I have been vego since I was a kid, I try and tell you how I have had shit put on me, and you disagree with me because you never saw it happen. For fucks sake! Does this remind you of anything?

What I have meat privilege now? HAHAHAHA, I’m sorry. I can’t you seriously.

It’s still not discrimination–you ran into a bag of assholes. Consistently, which makes me wonder–the common denominator is you.

No, it doesn’t remind of anything, because this is the weirdest thread in all of MBZ.

Um, PEMRA? Much as archeoholmes and I are not seeing eye to eye right now I’m pretty sure she doesn’t want you “helping”.

Does this remind you of anything?

See, this can happen due to people saying sexism doesn’t exist because they never saw it.

But it can also happen when people say misandry doesn’t exist because they never saw it and it doesn’t exist