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The Myth of Warren Farrell: Farrell on Rape, Part One

farrellmyth

No book has had more influence over the Men’s Rights movement than Warren Farrell’s The Myth of Male Power. Published in 1993, in the heyday of the early 90s antifeminist backlash, it set the agenda for the Men’s Rights movement as it’s developed over the last two decades.  He’s the one who came up with the notions of “male disposability” and the “death professions.” He’s the one who got MRAs fixated on the issue of draft registration.

Indeed, so pervasive has his influence been that if you see an MRA making a dumb argument anywhere on the Internet, the chances are probably more than 50-50 that it originated in the pages of Farrell’s book. Despite its age, and its eccentricity, The Myth of Male Power is still the first book recommended to MRA newbies in the sidebar of the Men’s Rights subreddit, the most active MRA hangout online.

It’s a book that deserves a lot more attention than I have been giving it on this blog. Sure, I’ve written about Farrell’s strange and creepy notions about incest, as set forth in a notorious interview in Penthouse in the 1970s, and about his recent attempts to explain away these views. But I haven’t devoted any blog posts to his most influential work. I intend to rectify that now, with a series of posts on some of Farrell’s chief arguments and assertions.

I will start with several posts on Farrell’s views on rape, which has been the subject of much controversy of late. This part will deal with his general statements on rape and sexuality; another will explore in more detail his views on date rape (did he really describe it as “exciting?”); and still another will look at the vast assortment of things he has inappropriately compared to rape.

Pinning down what Farrell “really believes” about rape – and indeed, about almost anything– is difficult. Farrell’s arguments, such as they are, are slippery and evasive. Instead of setting forth a clear argument about rape, Farrell instead provides us with a series of jumbled metaphors and strange comparisons. Instead of trying to summarize them – many of them defy summary — let’s just go through them one by one.

Farrell supporters will likely suggest that these quotes are taken “out of context,” to which I can only say: Check his book to see for yourself. None of his troubling quotes are any less troubling, or for that matter any clearer, in context, and many don’t have much of a context. Farrell writes in a rambling, free-associational style, and many of the “arguments” he makes in the following quotes seem to come from out of the blue, and are never developed further (though some, as you will see, are referenced again in later quotes).

Page numbers given are from the 1993 hardcover edition of The Myth of Male Power.

All that out of the way, let’s jump right in:

Near the start of his book , Farrell sets the tone for what will come by suggesting that men suffer as much sexual trauma from women’s mixed signals as women do from rape:

Feminism has taught women to sue men for sexual harassment or date rape when men initiate with the wrong person or with the wrong timing; no one has taught men to sue women for sexual trauma for saying “yes,” then “no,” then “yes.” … Men [are] still expected to initiate, but now, if they [do] it badly, they could go to jail. (p. 16)

Here, he elaborates on the notion that rape is a matter of bad timing, of “tak[ing] risks too quickly.”

In the past, both sexes were anxious about sex and pregnancy. Now the pill minimizes her anxiety and condoms increase his. Now the pimple faced boy must still risk rejection while also overcoming his own fear of herpes and AIDS and reassuring her there is nothing to fear. He must still do the sexual risk-taking, but now he can be put in jail if he takes risks too quickly or be called a wimp if he doesn’t take them quickly enough . (p. 168)

Here, Farrell falls back on the old “rape is misunderstanding” canard, and somehow manages to compare sexual activity –- from kissing up to and including rape — to eating a bag of potato chips.

It is also possible for a woman to go back to a man’s room, tell him she doesn’t want to have intercourse, mean it, start kissing, have intercourse, and then wish she hadn’t in the morning. How? Kissing is like eating potato chips. Before we know it, we’ve gone further than we said we would. (p. 311)

Here, he seems to seriously suggest that juries could do a better job judging rape cases if they were sexually aroused.

The problem with every judgment of sexual behavior is that it is made by people who aren’t being stimulated as they are making the judgment. A jury that sees a woman in a sterile courtroom, asks her what she wanted, and then assumes that anything else she did was the responsibility of the man is insulting not only the woman but the power of sex. (p. 312)

And then he returns to the potato chip metaphor.

A man being sued after a woman has more sex than intended is like Lay’s being sued after someone has more potato chips than intended. In brief, date rape can be a crime, a misunderstanding, or buyer’s remorse. (p. 312)

Farrell repeatedly tries to absolve men of sexual wrongdoing by suggesting that they are literally intoxicated by female beauty.

Sexually, of course, the sexes aren’t equal. It is exactly a woman’s greater sexual power that often makes a man so fearful of being rejected by her that he buys himself drinks to reduce his fear. In essence, her sexual power often leads to him drinking; his sexual power rarely leads to her drinking. If anything is evidence of her power over him, it is his being expected to spend his money to buy her drinks without her reciprocating.  …

It is  men – far more than women – whose mental capacities are diminished when they are “under the influence” of a beautiful woman. (p. 320)

But Farrell thinks it’s “sexist” – against men – to put men in jail for “selling sex” to intoxicated women:

As long as society tells men to be the salespersons of sex, it is sexist for society to put only men in jail if they sell well. We don’t put other salespersons in jail for buying clients drinks and successfully transforming a “no” into a “maybe” into a “yes.” If the client makes a choice to drink too much and the “yes” turns out to be a bad decision, it is the client who gets fired, not the salesperson.  (p. 321)

We’ve only just begun to scratch the surface of Warren Farrell’s equally daft and disturbing views on sex and rape. Stay tuned.

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Kittehserf
11 years ago

Hi ophelia!

“@Kitteh, hey love, sorry about last night, I missed your message 🙂
So sorry about Magnus, I didn’t realise 🙁 He was beautiful in his pick with your Mr. :)”

No problem – Mags was 22 when he passed over, he had a hella long life here being boss cocky. Now he does it over There, he’s king of a much bigger garden. Thank goodness his temper’s improved, too!

“Also, I have the kindle app on my Ipad, my kindle went to silicon heaven a couple of months ago, still haven’t got around to replacing it, although the app seems pretty good so I’m not sure if I won’t stick with that to be honest. Why do you ask?”

I’m wondering what’s a good e-reader thingy to get. I’ll have to buy one eventually, when we need to move to a smaller house, and I’ll need to get ebooks instead of physical ones, and maybe replace a lot of stuff I have now. I saw a woman reading a Kindle on the train t’other day and liked the look of it – the screen really did seem to imitate the look of paper – but if one’s limited to the stuff Amazon has available on Kindle, rather than ebooks generally, it’s not going to help much.

OT Louis and I were sitting outside having a hot chocolate on the way home yesterday – he was in his denim jacket and jeans and butcher-boy cap, it’s been pretty cold lately – and I realised he had glasses on. He’s worn them on occasion to show the “comfortable middle-aged person” idea, but he wasn’t reading yesterday.

Me: why the glasses?
Him, airily: So I will blend in with the hipsters should anyone see me.

HE MENTIONED HIPSTERS

be afraid, be very afraid

Alex
11 years ago

@Derick,

Yes, I did refute it! I just cannot prove it without a Webcam conversation. If you don’t believe me, that’s fine

Funny…the last person I recall on this site who suggested a webcam conversation with us was…Pell!

And, yes, I can justify people going to prison for years for causing psychological damage to another person.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

I cannot justify the psychological trauma that would be inflicted on anyone if Pell was to flash his underage bits at us, as he surely would.

Kittehserf
11 years ago

AAaaaaaaaahhhh I need brain bleach after that image, Cassandra!

Tamen
Tamen
11 years ago

titianblue:

Tamen, nope, not interested in commenting on Koss on this thread.

—8<—

Interesting. Please clarify. How do you think they contribute to rape culture? How common do you think it is that women “say no when they mean yes”? Why might they do it? And, assuming we’re talking straight women saying it to straight men, what should men be doing to resolve this issue?

So, no comment from you on Koss on this thread. Too off-topic for you? Kind of presumptious of you to ask me to clarify how I think women who say yes when they mean no
contributes to rape culture then, but ok, I’ll indulge since I suspect I know what you’re hoping I’ll answer and if I don’t you’ll all run with that.

First I’ll start with a short definition of rape culture: Anything in our culture which contributes to an increase in rape prevalency. I’ll also state that I am not talking about informed responsible BDSM play (consensual non-consent, rape play etc.)

Basically it’s a matter of confirmation bias which those women contribute to. Men who have been told no by a woman who meant yes (and it became apparent at some point that she meant yes when she said no) will have the myth that women in general say no when they mean yes affirmed and strengthened. Which makes them more likely to assume that the next woman (or even the same woman at a later time) means yes when they said no – which increases the risk of disastrous consequences in the form of rape or sexual assault.

How common do I think it is? Well, I have experienced it a few times myselves. Almost always in the form of the woman talking to me at a later time/date and ask me why we didn’t hook up, why I didn’t push further even though she with her body language or with words communicated no, no further. One of them raped me.

Why they do it? Several reasons I imagine, but they have agency and intent isn’t magic so in my view it’s their personal responsibility to be able to communicate about sex in a mature and honest manner – not something society or others can fix for them.

What should men be doing to resolve this issue? It’s unclear what you mean by this issue. Women saying no when they mean yes is something only those women who actually do that can resolve (read: stop doing). But I suspect you perhaps mean what men should do when they find themselves in a situation where this occurs. I’d probably be more polite, but I think Louis CK say it quite unequivocally here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hNaFkbZYU

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

This is why I refused to try ChatRoulette. It seemed to be full of poorly socialized children like Pell (whose parents should probably be monitoring his internet access a bit more carefully).

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

This cunt thanks you, David.

Alex
11 years ago

Thanks, David.

Cassandra, if I’d had liquid in my mouth, it would be all over my screen right now. Thankfully it did not. Also, thanks for the laugh. 😀

greendaywantsavatars
greendaywantsavatars
11 years ago

Basically it’s a matter of confirmation bias which those women contribute to. Men who have been told no by a woman who meant yes (and it became apparent at some point that she meant yes when she said no)

HOW DID IT BECOME APARENT!!

asshole.

I’m sorry, but if one of my friends likes habanero sauce in their tacos, I don’t assume everyone does and put it in all the time.

I fucking ask.

if one person says no and changes their mind, don’t assume everyone does.

just fucking ask.

Also, dont’ forget the patriarchy that penalizes women for saying yes really quick because they’re “sluts” or “easy”. So yeah, this goes back to the patriarchy.

TL;DR i still don’t get your point.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

See, I’d assume that there was an issue with the person whose behavior was odd and contradictory. If you assume that it means that everyone who shares their gender is a liar, and that that means it’s OK to ignore them when they tell you no…well, that tells us many interesting things about you.

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

@David thank you 🙂

Alex
11 years ago

If people don’t shame women as “sluts” for saying “yes” to sex they want, less women will feel the need to “play hard to get”. And if men treat every “no” as “no”, even if they’re sure it means yes, those women who do play hard to get will learn pretty quickly that they’re not going to get laid that way. Pretty fucking simple actually, and I don’t actually believe most women do play hard to get.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

If someone says no and means yes, the worst thing that might happen is you not getting laid. If someone says no and means no and you go ahead on the assumption that they mean yes, you’re a rapist.

I know which option I’d choose, but then again I’m not an asshole.

Aaliyah
11 years ago

If people don’t shame women as “sluts” for saying “yes” to sex they want, less women will feel the need to “play hard to get”. And if men treat every “no” as “no”, even if they’re sure it means yes, those women who do play hard to get will learn pretty quickly that they’re not going to get laid that way. Pretty fucking simple actually, and I don’t actually believe most women do play hard to get.

Bingo. This should be on a poster.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Alex: I was going to say, how many women truly play hard to get?

Alex
11 years ago

Seconded, Cassandra, and thanks, Aaliyah. 🙂

Alex
11 years ago

@hellkell, Exactly. I doubt very many do. I’m sure there are some, but shy as I’ve been most of my life, I can honestly say I’ve never pretended not to want sex when I did. I don’t know a single woman who has ever pretended she didn’t want sex when she actually did. I think it’s like false accusations of sexual assault. Because it happens, MRAs treat it like it’s an issue as big or bigger than actual sexual assault, even though the latter happens way more often.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Plus if you actually did believe that this was a common thing, and really bad, then the dumbest possible thing to do would be to reinforce it. If someone wants sex, but says they don’t, and they find that that means that they don’t get the sex that they wanted, they will eventually learn to say what they actually want.

Now, otoh, if what you actually want is a convenient excuse to ignore women when they tell you “no”…

Alex
11 years ago

Then you’re a rapist!

Tamen
Tamen
11 years ago

Argenti Aertheri: Feel free to tell me to fuck off as much as you want. I’ll feel free to disregard it as much as I want. The only persons able to short-circuit that are the ones with the ban-hammer. That’s all.

greendaywantsavatars:

and it appears these influences are greater for males than females.

By what logic, Tamen? I mean, got any evidence for that.

The context and full quote of what greendaywantsavatars are referring to are in this comment from me.

It’s not me who said that. it’s Jim Hopper and he’s paraphrasing the discussion of the researchers in a paper published in a peer reviewed journal. I did include the name of the article and the journal in that comment so you could search for it instead of asking me for proof. Here’s what the study found (quoted from the study):

In general, we found that women and men differ in the extent to which they recall or report having experienced childhood sexual abuse. Approximately 16% of men with documented cases of sexual abuse considered their early childhood experiences sexual abuse, compared with 64% of women with documented cases of sexual abuse.

That’s the supporting evidence that something is influencing men to underreport CSA to a larger degree than women.

From the abstract:

Using data from a prospective-cohorts-design study, a large group of children who were sexually and physically abused or neglected approximately 20 years ago were followed up and compared with a matched control group. Accuracy of adult recollections of childhood sexual abuse was assessed using 4 different measures, completed in the context of a 2-hr in-person interview in young adulthood (N = 1,196). Results indicate gender differences in reporting and accuracy

Here’s another quote from the study:

The underreporting we found means that there is a substantial group of people with documented histories of childhood sexual abuse who do not report these experiences when asked in young adulthood to do so. Whether this is due to loss of memory, denial, or embarrassment is not known. However, there are important implications from these these findings for other researchers and clinicians. For researchers, the underreporting of childhood sexual abuse poses a serious concern for epidemiological research, especially that which involves a large proportion of men. For clinicians, these findings reinforce the need to develop more sensitive techniques to elicit this information from men.

Did that answer your question?

Tamen
Tamen
11 years ago

greendaywantsavatars:

Basically it’s a matter of confirmation bias which those women contribute to. Men who have been told no by a woman who meant yes (and it became apparent at some point that she meant yes when she said no)

HOW DID IT BECOME APARENT!!

I can tell you didn’t bother to read the rest of my comment before your indignation got the best of you as I gave examples. I’ll repeat them for you convenience:

Almost always in the form of the woman talking to me at a later time/date and ask me why we didn’t hook up, why I didn’t push further even though she with her body language or with words communicated no, no further.

Kittehserf
11 years ago

@Tamen: “Feel free to tell me to fuck off as much as you want. I’ll feel free to disregard it as much as I want. The only persons able to short-circuit that are the ones with the ban-hammer. That’s all.”

Do you make a habit of pushing yourself into conversations in bars, say, and insisting strangers talk about what you want, and then when they tell you to fuck off, say you’ll stay until management throws you out? Because that’s what you’re doing here. Do you get some cheap thrill from being an arsehole? Or is that sort of pathetic harassment the only way you have any “conversations” at all?

Tamen
Tamen
11 years ago

As I suspect it’s more a matter of who says it here than what is said I’ll add this quote in an attempt to make this discussion a bit shorter:

Don’t say “no” when you don’t mean “no.” Again, I can’t believe I have to say this, but apparently some people are going about saying “no” when they don’t mean it and then everyone else is like “women! Sometimes they say no, but they don’t mean no, therefore I am totally justified in having sex with people who have said no!” So seriously, if you pull that shit, stop ruining it for everyone else. (You can do rape play if you want, but use a safeword.)

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