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How bad ideas get started: The “Apex Fallacy,” the “Frontman Fallacy,” and the murderer Marc Lepine

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Would MRAs still be into the Apex Fallacy if boards of directors looked like this?

So some Men’s Rightsers are up in arms because the powers that be at Wikipedia just deleted a page devoted to a phony “logical fallacy” invented by a friend of Paul Elam. According to the now-deleted Wikipedia page, “the apex fallacy refers to judging groups primarily by the success or failure at those at the top rungs (the apex, such as the 1%) of society, rather than collective success of a group.”

In other words, it’s a convenient way for MRAs to hand-wave away any evidence that men, collectively, have more power than women. Mention that men hold the overwhelming majority of powerful positions in the worlds of politics and business, and, I don’t know, podiatry, and MRAs will shout “apex fallacy” and do a little victory dance. Rich and powerful dudes don’t count, because of poor and powerless dudes!

On the Wikipedia discussion page devoted to the question of deleting the apex fallacy entry, one Wikipedia editor – who voted “strong delete” – noted that

This is men’s rights activist astroturfing. The guy above [in the discussion] isn’t posting examples of its usage because they’re all on websites showcasing brutal misogyny and hateful ignorance, like A Voice for Men.

He’s got a point. When I did a Google search for the term, my top ten results (which may be different than your top ten results, because that’s how Google works) included posts on The Spearhead; The Men’s Rights subreddit; Genderratic (TyphonBlue’s blog); Emma the Emo’s Emo Musings; and a tweet from the little-followed Twitter account of someone calling himself Astrokid MHRA. In other words, five of the ten results were MRA sites, several of them with explicit links to A Voice for Men. (That “MHRA” is a dead giveaway.)

The top result, meanwhile, linked to a post on the blog of the delightful Stonerwithaboner, who doesn’t consider himself an MRA, as far as I know. But he’s still kind of a shit, and he did recently confess to being (as I suspected) the person who was going around posting comments on manosphere sites as David H. F*cktrelle, Male Feminist Extraordinaire ™.

So, in other words , I think it’s fair to say that the term “apex fallacy” has not yet achieved academic or philosophical respectability just yet.

The deleted Wikipedia page attributes the term “apex fallacy” to Helen Smith, a psychologist who is a longtime friend to A Voice for Men, and dates it to an interview Smith gave to the odious Bernard Chapin in 2008.

But the idea seems to be a simple reworking of a bad idea that’s been floating around in Men’s Rights circles for a lot longer than that.

Back in the 1990s, New Zealand Men’s Rights Activist Peter Zohrab came up with what he called the “Frontman Fallacy,” a notion he spread via the alt.mens-rights newsgroup on Usenet and elsewhere; the term has been widely adopted in Men’s Rights circles since then. As Zohrab defined the term,

the Frontman Fallacy is the mistaken belief that people (men, specifically) who are in positions of authority in democratic systems use their power mainly to benefit the categories of people (the category of “men”, in particular) that they belong to themselves.  

So, in other words, if you mention that men hold the overwhelming majority of powerful positions in the worlds of politics, business, and podiatry, MRAs will shout out “frontman fallacy” and do a little victory dance. Rich and powerful dudes don’t count, because of poor and powerless dudes!

Like the extremely similar “apex fallacy,” this idea is rather too silly and facile to count as a real fallacy, but it has proven quite popular with MRAs. Looking through the google search results for “frontman fallacy,” I see links to a wide assortment of MRA sites using the term, including AVFM, Genderratic, Stand Your Ground, Backlash.com, Toysoldier, Mensactivism.org, Pro-Male Anti-Feminist Tech, Fathersmanifesto.net, Mensaid.com, and some others. Like “apex fallacy” it hasn’t made much progress outside the Men’s Rights movement.

What’s interesting about this to me is that this is not the only bad idea that Peter Zohrab has ever had.

Indeed, Zohrab had some extremely bad ideas about Marc Lepine, the woman-hating antifeminist who murdered 14 women at the École Polytechnique in Montreal in 1989.

While Zohrab, to my knowledge, never explicitly justified Lepine’s killings, he described the massacre in one notorious internet posting as an “Extremist Protest Against Media Censorship.” Of Lepine himself, he wrote

I bet you don’t know he wasn’t a misogynist – because you have been conned by the media (as usual). In fact, he was a Men’s Rights activist (albeit an extremist one), and one of the things he was protesting about was media censorship.

Zohrab went on to say that it was clear from Lepine’s writings – or at least writing alleged to have been written by him —  that

he [was] against Feminists — not against women — he clearly states that he is protesting against various issues which are aspects of Feminist sexism.

Indeed, Zohrab seems not only sympathetic towards Lepine’s “cause” but seems to feel that he was being unfairly misrepresented:

The write-ups on Marc Lepine concentrate on character-assassination. They take things out of context, in the same way that fathers are slandered in the divorce/family court, in order to deprive them of custody or access. …

Marc Lepine was not only not sexist, as the media stated – he was actually fighting sexism!

Lots of MRAs love talking about the “frontman fallacy” or the new and improved “apex fallacy.” They don’t seem much interested in talking about Zohrab himself.

Like it or not, MRAs, this man is one of the leading figures in the emergence of the Men’s Rights movement online, and in the intellectual history of the movement, such as it is.

If I were a bit more paranoid, I might wonder if the emergence of the “apex fallacy” was some sort of an attempt as a rebranding, an attempt to push the “frontman fallacy” and its creator, the old, odd duck Peter Zohrab, with his embarrassingly sympathetic feelings toward a mass murderer of women, down that famous memory hole.

P.S. Don’t read the comments to that MensActivism.org posting, unless you want to get really depressed.

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kittehserf
10 years ago

Say, are there good pizza places in Chicago, anyone know?

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

NY pizza is thin, greasy, huge slices. Total grab-n-go street food.

trans_commie
10 years ago

@cassandrakitty

I guess the main characteristic of NY style pizza is large, thin slices.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

So basically it is like what gets called NY style here. Good to know!

(London street-food pizza is a pitiful thing. Save yourself the heartbreak and don’t bother.)

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Vancouver BC street-food pizza is the same.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

On Oxford Street they used to sell pizza slices that were square as well as soggy and tasteleless. Square pizza? That’s just not right.

kittehserf
10 years ago

(London street-food pizza is a pitiful thing. Save yourself the heartbreak and don’t bother.)

Ditto the hot dogs. Mum and I got food poisoning from half a hot dog each back in the day.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Square pizza will always be associated with school lunch pizza for me, especially if the cheese is orange.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Ha, square pizza can be seen in takeaway places everywhere here.

Probably straight out of the supermarket freezers.

trans_commie
10 years ago

I actually don’t mind square pizza. Yes, it’s very strange, but I’ve often found that a lot of square pizzas are also well cooked – kind of like new haven style pizza. Maybe it’s just a coincidence.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Did I ever tell you guys about the time they had us make pizza in home ec in high school? They made us make it with a base that was like a hard but somehow soggy in the middle brown bread version of a baguette. It’s a good thing my mum taught me to cook so I didn’t have to learn from them.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Cassandra: that does not sound good. I’m trying to remember what we made in home ec, must not have been too scary because nothing stands out.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
10 years ago

My big memory from home ec was trying to make a baked, stuffed-mushroom appetizer with canned mushrooms, because our teacher wasn’t able to find fresh ones when she was grocery shopping. We got high marks for effort, but the appetizer failed spectacularly.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Cassandra, that sounds like a takeaway fast food cooking masterclass.

I can only remember having made a tea cake (reasonably successful) and a sponge cake (didn’t rise much) in home eco. I can’t recall which classes I hated more – home eco, woodwork, phys ed or maths.

trans_commie
10 years ago

My sister used to make raw pizza by using avocado “cheese”, raw tomato sauce, and flax seed flour for the crust. And then she made it into a square and “cooked” it in an industrial-strength dehydrator machine. Speaking of that, she has also made actual chocolate pudding with avocadoes in it.

grumpycatisagirl
grumpycatisagirl
10 years ago

That’s Sheryl Sandberg — who thinks the most effective way to advance women’s rights is by getting more women to devote their entire lives (!) to the goal of gaining corporate institutional positions of power

Again, no. Not really. I’d venture a guess that Oliver hasn’t actually read Lean In .

And sorry to interrupt the pizza talk. Carry on; it really is much more interesting.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

I think that necro was lonely and wanted a little attention. There didn’t seem to be much of a point to him.

Anyway, on to pizza. I approve of all kinds. Thin crust, deep dish, thick crush, square, it’s all good. The important things are cheese and sauce quality. The cheese should be real, not processed cheezfood. The sauce shouldn’t taste sugary. People should focus on that, not regional style identity politics that distract from the real issues!

trans_commie
10 years ago

The sauce shouldn’t taste sugary.

That’s like one of the easiest ways to ruin pizza. I hate it when that happens. X_X

contrapangloss
10 years ago

Garlic chicken pizza with white sauce is amazing.

Most pizza is amazing, really, but I have a soft spot for the white sauce pizzas.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

When the sauce is too sweet it’s like pizza candy. Weird, cheesy, tomato based pizza candy.

kittehserf
10 years ago

That sounds delicious, contrapangloss.

Definitely the sauces shouldn’t have any sweetness. That’s what I chiefly dislike about tomato sauce.

There’s a restaurant at Yosemite that does suprisingly good pizza. Or there was, three years ago, at least.

pecunium
10 years ago

Wow… if a small number of women get to the apex, then we should say all women are equal now: because a woman exploiting inequality = equality.

Up is down, left is right, vacuum is good to breathe.

Namely, that Perfect is the Enemy of Good.

Yes, but not all Goods are good enough.

trans_commie
10 years ago

kitteh, are you talking about the one at Curry Village? They’re not too bad, I guess.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Yes, I think that was the one, Ally! I’m no pizza gourmet but we were all four of us pleasantly surprised by the pizzas there.

Yes, but not all Goods are good enough.

Especially when they’re trolls. 😛

How are you, pecunium?

pecunium
10 years ago

Been busy. Conventions, singing lessons, work, trying to find a bank in this town where I can make a deposit, spinning (contemplating a loom, small: 8 inches wide), cleaning house (we no longer have any permanent houseguests), thinking I might get somewhat caught up tomorrow (HA!).

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