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How bad ideas get started: The “Apex Fallacy,” the “Frontman Fallacy,” and the murderer Marc Lepine

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Would MRAs still be into the Apex Fallacy if boards of directors looked like this?

So some Men’s Rightsers are up in arms because the powers that be at Wikipedia just deleted a page devoted to a phony “logical fallacy” invented by a friend of Paul Elam. According to the now-deleted Wikipedia page, “the apex fallacy refers to judging groups primarily by the success or failure at those at the top rungs (the apex, such as the 1%) of society, rather than collective success of a group.”

In other words, it’s a convenient way for MRAs to hand-wave away any evidence that men, collectively, have more power than women. Mention that men hold the overwhelming majority of powerful positions in the worlds of politics and business, and, I don’t know, podiatry, and MRAs will shout “apex fallacy” and do a little victory dance. Rich and powerful dudes don’t count, because of poor and powerless dudes!

On the Wikipedia discussion page devoted to the question of deleting the apex fallacy entry, one Wikipedia editor – who voted “strong delete” – noted that

This is men’s rights activist astroturfing. The guy above [in the discussion] isn’t posting examples of its usage because they’re all on websites showcasing brutal misogyny and hateful ignorance, like A Voice for Men.

He’s got a point. When I did a Google search for the term, my top ten results (which may be different than your top ten results, because that’s how Google works) included posts on The Spearhead; The Men’s Rights subreddit; Genderratic (TyphonBlue’s blog); Emma the Emo’s Emo Musings; and a tweet from the little-followed Twitter account of someone calling himself Astrokid MHRA. In other words, five of the ten results were MRA sites, several of them with explicit links to A Voice for Men. (That “MHRA” is a dead giveaway.)

The top result, meanwhile, linked to a post on the blog of the delightful Stonerwithaboner, who doesn’t consider himself an MRA, as far as I know. But he’s still kind of a shit, and he did recently confess to being (as I suspected) the person who was going around posting comments on manosphere sites as David H. F*cktrelle, Male Feminist Extraordinaire ™.

So, in other words , I think it’s fair to say that the term “apex fallacy” has not yet achieved academic or philosophical respectability just yet.

The deleted Wikipedia page attributes the term “apex fallacy” to Helen Smith, a psychologist who is a longtime friend to A Voice for Men, and dates it to an interview Smith gave to the odious Bernard Chapin in 2008.

But the idea seems to be a simple reworking of a bad idea that’s been floating around in Men’s Rights circles for a lot longer than that.

Back in the 1990s, New Zealand Men’s Rights Activist Peter Zohrab came up with what he called the “Frontman Fallacy,” a notion he spread via the alt.mens-rights newsgroup on Usenet and elsewhere; the term has been widely adopted in Men’s Rights circles since then. As Zohrab defined the term,

the Frontman Fallacy is the mistaken belief that people (men, specifically) who are in positions of authority in democratic systems use their power mainly to benefit the categories of people (the category of “men”, in particular) that they belong to themselves.  

So, in other words, if you mention that men hold the overwhelming majority of powerful positions in the worlds of politics, business, and podiatry, MRAs will shout out “frontman fallacy” and do a little victory dance. Rich and powerful dudes don’t count, because of poor and powerless dudes!

Like the extremely similar “apex fallacy,” this idea is rather too silly and facile to count as a real fallacy, but it has proven quite popular with MRAs. Looking through the google search results for “frontman fallacy,” I see links to a wide assortment of MRA sites using the term, including AVFM, Genderratic, Stand Your Ground, Backlash.com, Toysoldier, Mensactivism.org, Pro-Male Anti-Feminist Tech, Fathersmanifesto.net, Mensaid.com, and some others. Like “apex fallacy” it hasn’t made much progress outside the Men’s Rights movement.

What’s interesting about this to me is that this is not the only bad idea that Peter Zohrab has ever had.

Indeed, Zohrab had some extremely bad ideas about Marc Lepine, the woman-hating antifeminist who murdered 14 women at the École Polytechnique in Montreal in 1989.

While Zohrab, to my knowledge, never explicitly justified Lepine’s killings, he described the massacre in one notorious internet posting as an “Extremist Protest Against Media Censorship.” Of Lepine himself, he wrote

I bet you don’t know he wasn’t a misogynist – because you have been conned by the media (as usual). In fact, he was a Men’s Rights activist (albeit an extremist one), and one of the things he was protesting about was media censorship.

Zohrab went on to say that it was clear from Lepine’s writings – or at least writing alleged to have been written by him —  that

he [was] against Feminists — not against women — he clearly states that he is protesting against various issues which are aspects of Feminist sexism.

Indeed, Zohrab seems not only sympathetic towards Lepine’s “cause” but seems to feel that he was being unfairly misrepresented:

The write-ups on Marc Lepine concentrate on character-assassination. They take things out of context, in the same way that fathers are slandered in the divorce/family court, in order to deprive them of custody or access. …

Marc Lepine was not only not sexist, as the media stated – he was actually fighting sexism!

Lots of MRAs love talking about the “frontman fallacy” or the new and improved “apex fallacy.” They don’t seem much interested in talking about Zohrab himself.

Like it or not, MRAs, this man is one of the leading figures in the emergence of the Men’s Rights movement online, and in the intellectual history of the movement, such as it is.

If I were a bit more paranoid, I might wonder if the emergence of the “apex fallacy” was some sort of an attempt as a rebranding, an attempt to push the “frontman fallacy” and its creator, the old, odd duck Peter Zohrab, with his embarrassingly sympathetic feelings toward a mass murderer of women, down that famous memory hole.

P.S. Don’t read the comments to that MensActivism.org posting, unless you want to get really depressed.

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hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Joe: no one was talking about your sad boner, you jackass.

@hellkell – holy fuck, you are totally delusional, I do not want a fucking cookie from you, you utter arsehole. STFU already.

Seriously, if I say “I did X” and X is a good thing, is not a play for approval, it’s just a statement of fact. Get the fuck over yourself already.

U mad broseph?

I have a problem with feminists who attack men, who seek to silence, or disadvantage men, or who go out of their way to stop men getting help, or organising themselves to help one another.

Where are these feminists? In your head?

Viscaria
Viscaria
11 years ago

Bwahahahaha! Mine is an evil laugh!

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Joe seems upset that I inferred he wants accolades for doing… nothing special.

Bee
Bee
11 years ago

@katz – “morning glory” (another term for boner)

…. you do know that’s what Bee meant… right?

Get out of my head, Joe!!

And yes, “morning” is my word for penis. Of course it is. It totally makes sense. Want to know what other unrelated words I use in place of other words?

Viscaria
Viscaria
11 years ago

Sometimes I say “pancakes” when I mean “nobody cares about your dangly bits, Joe.”

Anyway I am totally going to have some pancakes on the weekend.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Here’s something more interesting than Joe: does anyone else get the Mittleschmertz? For those who don’t know, it’s pain upon ovulation. Tonight’s bout was so bad I almost thought it was appendicitis for half a second.

Still more pleasant than Joe.

becausescience
becausescience
11 years ago

So Joe brings up male violence as a talking point about how men are suffering more than women, but doesn’t want to discuss the fact that the perpetrators of most murders of men are also men themselves. How is it victim blaming to point out that men are mostly being murdered by other men, when seeking ways to reduce the prevalence of men being murdered?

Does Joe actually know what victim blaming means, or is he just saying words at people?

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

When I say “good morning” to men at work, I am totally asking about their boners.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

beacausescience: Joe is just flinging words, much like a monkey flings poo.

gametime218
gametime218
11 years ago

I shudder to think what Joe would imagine when I say I’m going to be wearing morning dress at my brother’s wedding.

Kittehserf
11 years ago

“For the first time in my life I have an engagement ring (couldn’t afford such things before).”

I just got my engagement ring a few weeks ago too! (Not that it’s expensive, we just do these things out of order. He didn’t propose till after we’d married, either.)

Fade
11 years ago

I got some pinchy painy aches in one side of my bottom torso that I thought was me being sick, and my doctor said it was probably pain upon ovulation. So I think I get it, too.

Also, Joe, I googled morning height. Most people seemed to think it was about tallness… and not of your penis. Of your body.

Though one person in a forum asked “like penis”, so I guess one person has the same assumptions as you….

CassandraSays
11 years ago

So, just how would this proposed Program for Nice People Only be administered? Would there be a panel voting on whether the person was decent/asshole, or is Joe going to be making that decision himself?

If this is going to be a national program I hope he has a lot of free time.

becausescience
becausescience
11 years ago

beacausescience: Joe is just flinging words, much like a monkey flings poo.

Not surprising. Manosphere types seem obsessed with finding evolution/biotruth reasons for everything so if other primates fling poop, humans should too, as they’ll probably claim it establishes manly dominance and hot babes will be powerless to resist you.

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

@Kittehserf, hello sweetheart 🙂 Have you tried gingerly brushing yours yet?

Got your latest pick, double phwoar. Oh the objectifying of the men, and I’m not even sorry 🙂

We eloped to Gretna Green as well, we like to be different 🙂
(Gretna Green is like a really farty Las Vegas here in the UK.)

Fibinachi
11 years ago

Extensive backgroundchecks and metrics like “Puppies rescued per quarter”, “people helped across street / month”, “proportion of total income invested in charity”, “bar fights broken up” plus a good helping of fussy, overworked but exceedingly polite and friendly bureaucratic middle-men.

That, and they have a “Favored Customer” programmer where they work with Santa Claus, gleaning potential future members from his “Nice” lists and watching, very carefully, the people on the “Naughty” list.

It’s an industry.

They call it “The Niceworks”

CassandraSays
11 years ago

All the nice, polite bureaucrats try to avoid the boss (Joe) because his tendency to shout makes them uncomfortable. They don’t tell him so, though, because they’re just too nice.

katz
11 years ago

OMG, fib, I would totally make it onto the nice people list.

Which probably means it’s miscalibrated.

CassandraSays
11 years ago

Other random things that are more interesting than Joe – these shorts. They are a disco ball in shorts form.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Club-Monaco-00-Limited-cruise-collection-Silver-Mini-Shoerts-W-Pockets-Tailored-/271198483605?pt=US_CSA_WC_Shorts&hash=item3f24b07495

becausescience
becausescience
11 years ago

Speaking of people saying words at people without understanding what words mean, GirlWritesWhat apparently gave an address recently to the New York State Libertarian Party:

http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/1dcoua/oh_gawd_the_hilarity_of_it_of_this_address_to_the/

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

Drunk posting is a bad idea!
Just read the post I wrote about my ring and realised it doesn’t quite make sense.

Just to make it clear, I’m not showing off about how funny I was.
I was saying I ACCIDENTALLY said that ‘I was going to the bathroom to gingerly brush my ring’, and it took me a couple of minutes to figure out what Mr M was laughing at.

So gotta stop drinking 🙁 Although this week is the first week I’ve drunk anything in years so I blame Man Boobz for my impending alcohol problem.

Kittehserf
11 years ago

I know Gretna Green, chosen spot of elopers for ages! Didn’t know it’d turned into the Vegas of the north. The mind boggles. 😀

Yup, totally objectifying, misandrists that we are. And you would. not. believe. the pic Louis dared me to make the other night. Well, maybe you would, I don’t know!

LOL to the ring. Hmm, am I game to say “I daren’t brush it at all, the fleur de lys might fall off”?

katz
11 years ago

This has nothing to do with anything, but my kittens are getting fixed tomorrow and the vet said not to feed them after midnight.

My kittens are gremlins.

Kittehserf
11 years ago

Hey, I got the point of the joke!

Viscaria
Viscaria
11 years ago

My kittens are gremlins.

It all makes sense now.

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