Two weeks ago, you may recall, antifeminist crusader and recent A Voice for Men recruit Erin Pizzey made an “Ask Me Anything” appearance on Reddit which was a rousing success, at least by the standards of Reddit and the Men’s Rights movement. (By the standards of logic and ordinary human decency, not so much.) This Saturday, she gave a sort of encore.
Here are some of the interesting things I learned from her latest three-hour appearance. (I haven’t read all thousand-plus comments in the thread; this is based solely on what she herself said. Click on the headlines to see her original comments in their entirety, in context.) Her comments are, as always, models of good sense and lucidity.
Ban feminists from government perhaps! Personally, I think, I would describe feminism, and I have fought for 40 years to publicize the damage that they were doing to family life and men and boys. To me, to condemn men as sole perpetrators of all or almost all atrocities in this world, feminists are a hate movement. I say this because just recently Sweden, Norway, and I think Finland are trying to bring in a law in those countries that will make any criticism of feminism a punishable offense. That is not the action of a movement dedicated to equality and freedom of speech for all, it is totalitarianism.
As far as I’m concerned, a sufficient amount of women have reached boardrooms and many of them publicly have said that they prefer a quality of life which includes family time, which for women in many ways is more important because we, in the long term, through our children and grandchildren. Men, as they climb up the steps to fame and fortune define themselves by how well they can take care of their wives and children. Different lifestyles, different goals, very few women want to spend the time and the total energy in making that high-achieving career lifestyle.
According to the most recent Catalyst survey, only 16.6% of Fortune 500 board members are women, and an even smaller percentage (14.3%) are CEOs. That’s a very strange notion of equality you have there, Ms. Pizzey.
So many men are lickspittles. Often in my travels when I’m speaking, I have asked men, informally, why they would never stand up to women who were devoted to the idea of a world without men. The honest answer was they were too dependent on having relationships with women to stand up for what they believed. …
I think most men live lives of quiet desperation–that’s a quote, I can’t remember who said it but it’s true.
I believe that was Elmer Fudd.
Wait, no, he said something about hunting wabbits. No idea, then. Who could have Thoreau-n such an idea around? Walden you like to know?
I’m not surprised that men are going their own way. Why would any sane man want to risk losing his property, his relationship with his wife, his financial stability, the children that he will be deprived of… at the moment, men don’t have any rights in this area. In England, Harriet Harman and her very powerful harpies are trying to bring in a law that will mean a woman has only got to live with a man for a very short period of time before she’s entitled to exactly the same amount of money and power that is given to married women. That’s already happened in Australia and Canada too!
I am constantly in the company of women in their late 30s and 40s who after choosing a career have decided they want children and marriage. I have to regretfully inform them that the present climate against men, they are very unlikely to have a relationship with a man and will probably never have children.
It’s true. Nowhere is the problem more noticeable than Los Angeles, by the way, where men give themselves the right to date (meaning, they can have sex with as many women as they want at the same time)… very sad situation, but, why would they do anything else? The legal system can destroy them if they commit to a relationship.
The Feminist Hegemony will fuck up your hard drive:
I did manage to get exactly one paper published, decades after the fact, on the surveys I did of the first 100 women in my Refuge. Just one, in a tiny journal. … But the feminist hegemony has worked hard to keep work like this out of the public eye.
They actually destroyed the hard disk of Professor Viano from Washington University when he tried to publish some of this work.
[citation needed]
For what it’s worth, there doesn’t seem to be anyone named Viano associated with Washington University in St. Louis (aside from a physics professor who got her PhD there), nor, for that matter, with George Washington University in Washington DC.
There is an actual Professor Emilio Viano who teaches at American University’s School of Public Affairs and is an adjunct professor of law at the Washington College of Law, and he’s written about violence and victimology so perhaps he is the man Pizzey is referring to. There is, however, no evidence I can find online that anyone, much less the “feminist hegemony,” has ever destroyed his hard drive, and he seems to have published extensively and had what looks like a pretty successful academic career without any obvious hindrance from the evil femlords.
I did find a news article in which Viano is quoted about a case in which the FBI secretly got its hands on the hard drive of one of its agents suspected of selling secrets to the Russians, but 1) that wasn’t Viano’s hard drive and 2) I’m pretty sure the Feminist Hegemony had nothing to do with that, as it was never discussed at any of our meetings that I can recall, though admittedly I spent most of our meetings eating the complementary bon-bons and playing with the cats.
I eagerly await Ms. Pizzey’s clarification of her assertions about the mysterious “Professor Viano from Washington University” and his “hard disk.”
The last little lesson I learned from Pizzey’s appearance:
Fried food gives me indigestion.
This from a woman who claims to care about victims of domestic violence, and whose biggest claim to fame is that she was the founder of one of the first DV shelters for women. Evidently when you spend a lot of time in the company of Men’s Rights Activists, jokes about “battered women” are just part of the landscape.
Ms. Pizzey, might I suggest that if you indeed suffer from any sort of digestive problem it might just be because you are full of shit?
@Lawndart
On the bright side, the sewage treatment plant is super cheap, minus medical bills you might acquire after eating there. =P
It made sense slightly awkward kitteh.
Also, Erin’s views about MGTOW are not too off the wall. Personally, I wouldn’t consider myself a MGTOW in any respect because I have woman friends and would not necessarily be closed to the possibility of marriage… but it’s safe to say I view the idea with an abundance of caution.
Why is it any of your business who chooses MGTOW?
“which for women in many ways is more important because we, in the long term, through our children and grandchildren. Men”
(Yeah, as if I’d try block quotes on this)
I know I do “through” my future children.
“Why would any sane man want to risk losing his property, his relationship with his wife, his financial stability, the children that he will be deprived of… at the moment, men don’t have any rights in this area”
I like (as in hate) how he thinks relationship with wider and children he’ll be “deprived of” belong in the same category as property.
Dude, nobody cares if MGTOWs go their own way. The problem is that when they say “go their own way” they normally mean with a huge fuss while acting like misogynistic dicks, and they’re not going their own way so much as looking for attention and women saying “NO! Please don’t go your own way! We’ll stop feministing at you!” Kind of like kids threatening to run way when their parents tell them to eat asparagus.
You know, I agree with this. Fortunately, so do virtually all other feminists that I’ve met or read. Feminists in general are always debating with each other and disagreeing on various points, which is a good thing.
I’d be happy to do this. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find any good in the MRA so I’m stuck just being a feminist.
LOL and I should have known I would have been way slow on that comment.
Because most MGTOW folks are misogynistic assholes. Perhaps that’s not a good enough reason for you, though.
Here, Brz, as an added bonus:
The working definition of antifemnism quoted and translated in full from the very document you just quoted:
Gyda MargrÉt PeturSdÓttIr, Page 7, Defining Anti-Feminism.
antIfemInIsme is opinions, lifestyle and acts
Antifeministiske activities can be everything from Facebook to terror. Antifeminisme can be an explicity ideologi, a part of another extreme ideology or a thought / activity pattern which is not consciously interpreted into an ideological framework. A unifying trend between several ideologically motivated groups ,criminal gangs and totalitarian organisations is a view of women as objects, where the women can have support functions and take part in sexual relations with members of the group, without on an equal basis having the possibility for advancement or a voice within the organization.
Antifeminism is resistance towards feminism and equality
Feminism can be understood as the thought that there exists a structural inequality between the sexes, that this inequality often favorites men and that it is necessary to take steps to correct this inequality. Antifeminists profess resistance against feminism, and base this on the notions that there is either no inequality between women and men, that the structural inequalities have already been fixed or that the existing structural inequality in the main benefit women. Antifeminists have a relatively narrow definition of feminism as monolithic, all power and as only being concerned with the selfish desires of women. Central to the antifeminism ideology is a simple understanding of power. Power is view as a zero-sum game: when women get more power, men must necessarily be equivalently reduced. In this understanding Feminism goals becomes a snatching of and increasing of female power, to the point where men will be left behind as powerless. Some are of the opinion that feminism has already succeded in this, that women dominate society in general and men in the total. There resistance to the goals of feminism on the behalf of men is a rational choice.
Antifeminism is a desire to recreate a hiearchical society where in heterophile men are priviledged
In the anti-feminism ideology the white heterophile man stands in a threatened special position. Antifeminists view women, homo- and bisexuals and men with another ethnic and cultural background as minorities they must prevent from gaining the upper hand or in taking over what they percieve to be the white hereosexual male’s existing priviledges. Society being “controlled” in favour of these “minoritries”, are seen as weak and vulnerable to external domination.
Antifeminism is a resistance towards challening sex, gender, sexuality and race categories.
Antifeminist ideas of gender, race and sexuality are regressive and characterized by a resistance towards asking questions about what it means to be ”man” or “Women”. Gender, race and sexuality must be viewed as solid, definite traits where there is little room for variation or change.
—
… Notice the bit where it does not say “Also, as feminist, we need to constantly make sure men are shut up, medicated and marched down a narrow line of gender towards the slave pits?”
I know asking you to feel shame or embarrassed or surprised is too much to ask, but seriously, how about some admittance of the collosal gaffer made? Like, if I can’t count on any sense of empathy making your ears just a tiny, tiny bit red, can I at least get you to admit that your argumentation has failed and your logical, rational approach based on ill suited premises? This way we can work around the fact that you are clearly a robot incapable of feeling emotion, and simply start talking on the grounds of first principles.
—
@Pro-Equality MRA:
It isn’t any of our business. They can go where they like, they can do what they like, they can do who they like, they can like what they like, desire what they like, need what they need, want what they want, do what they do, the only thing we ask is this:
All of that?
We’re allowed to do too.
Because MGTOW won’t actually go their own way. They continuously obsess over their hate for women.
I’ve found more moderate MRAs to have many good things to say (my favorite MRA hangout is Reddit Men’s Rights). Feminism is, perhaps inevitably, female-centric and thus it generally misses the mark and/or displays a general lack of understanding when talking about men’s issues and men’s motivations.
Moderate MRAs examine gender from the other side of the coin.
That passage simply makes no sense unless they are arguing that it is better to have nothing than to take the risk of losing something.
Would any sane man take any risks ever? Yes.
Jeez… feminism is female centric. Imagine that.
/sarcasm.
@Pro-Equality MRA:
And their gender analyses are generally full of shit.
The mansplaining MRA is making my teeth ache.
@Fibinachi, but reading comprehension is MISANDRY!!!
“It would take time and attention to respond to your points, so instead I’m going to argue with the voices in my head and pull all of my facts out of my arse!”
@Fibinachi, I said nothing even approximating that quote. You too need to work on reading comprehension, or maybe just intellectual integrity.
Would you deny that feminism is, in general, woman-centric?
gillyrosebee, I’m a bit confused. Was that directed at me?
@tombcat
Omg, yay for you dream job!!! Congrats!!!
@hellkell
“Man, she’s pissed that the feminists she worked with back in the day didn’t kiss her ass enough. I’m sure she’s totally not a complete assache to deal with. Her hard-on for feminism read like the sourest of grapes.”
OT, but I must take up the insult “assache”
@buntzums
“I have often wondered if Pizzey is suffering from dementia… I know it’s not nice to speculate but she continually trumps up new conspiracy theories. It kind of reminds me of this nice old lady who used to tell everyone her kids were coming to visit her but they never came. Sad really.”
FFS, how many times do we have to go over this, just because someone is being an ass does not mean they have a mental illness sometimes they are just an asshole, those two things are not correlated!
Nah, I think it was satire of the MRA mindset. Right?
@Pro-Equality MRA:
Sorry. I did not intend to convey the idea that you had written, said or declared anything like that. I realize now that using a “blockquote” does imply that’s something you had written, and I should have made it more obvious I was not intending to convey that.
Sorry. Slip up. Won’t happen again.
To answer your question:
Yes
“I’ve found more moderate MRAs to have many good things to say (my favorite MRA hangout is Reddit Men’s Rights”
Citation needed!
By “good things to say” do you mean “dreadful, hateful, anti-woman things to say”?