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Lazy Libel: A Voice for Men “doxes” an alleged misandrist blogger — and ID’s the wrong woman [UPDATE2 w/ Georgetown response, notes from neo-Nazis]

A Voice for Men: The Gang that Couldn't Dox STraight
A Voice for Men: The Gang that Couldn’t Dox Straight

As I finished up my last post about Men’s Rights Redditors attempting to dox a so-called “conservative feminist” blogger who had confessed to trashing male applications when working in a university admissions office, I saw that A Voice for Men has run a post by Paul Elam identifying someone they’ve convinced themselves is the blogger, apparently using the information dug up by the Reddit doxers.

Their alleged culprit? “Arianna Pattek, a Georgetown grad student.” Other Men’s Rightsers have taken up the case, and the Conspiracy Subreddit is all aflutter about a post identifying her by name.

They’ve got the wrong person.

AVFM “proof” backing up their claims is that they have found a paper by Pattek that bears some vague resemblances to the blogger’s description of her thesis. But it’s clearly not a match.

Discussing her (then upcoming) thesis defense on her blog, the blogger refers to a number of topics, including men’s rights and paleoconservatism, that aren’t referenced at all in Pattek’s thesis. And roughly half the of her thesis deals with a topic — Holocaust Denial — that the blogger doesn’t mention. The blogger says her thesis is 120 pages; Pattek’s thesis is 95 pages.

But there’s an even bigger reason I know these two women are not one and the same:

The pseudonymous blogger claims to have gotten a doctorate in the spring of 2012.

Pattek got her bachelors degree from Georgetown in the spring of 2012. She’s not now, and has never been, a grad student.

Her thesis wasn’t a PhD. thesis, but a Senior Thesis that was a requirement for her minor in Justice and Peace, a program for undergraduates.

It even says so on the title page of the thesis itself: “A Thesis Submitted in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements for the Certificate in Justice and Peace, Georgetown University, Spring 2012.” A news article linked to in the comments on A Voice for Men notes that she was “the winner of the 2012 Peace and Justice Studies Association (PJSA) Undergraduate Thesis Award.”

UNDERgraduate. UNDERgraduate.

They’re not the same woman.

All of this is clear from simply reading the “evidence” that AVFM has assembled.

Even without this smoking gun, even a cursory skimming of the blog and the thesis show that they were written by different people. The blogger, assuming she is even a real person and not the creation of a hoaxer, claims to be a “conservative feminist” and constantly bashes Muslims. Pattek, concerned about “marginalized groups,” seems to be anything but a conservative. The blogger’s writing style is crude and dogmatic, so much so that the blog reeks of hoax. Pattek, by contrast, writes smoothly and intelligently.

It’s almost as if we are talking about two different people.

Oh, wait.

A Voice for Men: not only shitty people, but shitty doxers as well.

Amazingly, someone who says he’s a friend of Pattek has gone over to AVFM to point out in the comments that she is clearly not the “conservative feminist” blogger — and has been dismissed by Wrong-Way Elam and the gang as a liar and “white knight.”

EDITED TO ADD: MarkyMark and The Elusive Wapiti have both climbed aboard the anti-Pattek bandwagon.

And Georgetown has officially clarified that 1) Pattek was an UNDERgraduate and that 2) she never worked in admissions.

tT0GNcR

Meanwhile, over on AVFM, someone called Disorderly Conduct has posted an appropriately critical comment:

I’m disconcerted by the certainty of other commenters that everything is true considering the amount and plausibility of evidence that currently exists. There’s nothing wrong with prodding the university for answers about Arianna and the website edits, but at the very least wait until more evidence comes in before you run off with your verdict.

It should be noted the credibility of the entire controversy is based on anecdotes taken from an extremely dubious and over-the-top blog. Anecdotes are NOT valid evidence of anything unless they are substantiated by additional solid evidence, and this anecdote has none. Evidence connecting the blog to Arianna suggests she might be writing the blog, not that what is being written is true. Additionally, there are serious discrepancies between the information provided about Adrianna on the cached Georgetown pages and the beliefs stated in the blog. Some commenters suggest this is to cover her identity, but there is no reason to believe this information was distorted or fabricated but the admissions blog post itself is not.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ckvgo/woman_who_works_at_college_admissions_rejects/
Mensrights reddit is not on board with this. One commenter who says they know about the Georgetown admissions process asserts that there is major gaps between their knowledge of it and how the blogger portrayed the process. This includes discrepancies between dates and the fact that admissions isn’t even run by a single person. Another commenter says there’s a committee involved in judging admissions. Putting this much effort into portraying your post as containing faulty information just so you can brag about seriously incriminating and illegal evidence is extremely implausible to me.

To recap:
– There’s no evidence the post about trashing admissions is factual, and other evidence indicates it wasn’t
– There is insubstantial evidence the blogger was Arianna
– It is advisable to wait until there is substantial evidence before you declare it as true

Additionally:
– I haven’t seen evidence Arianna was ever in charge of admissions (feel free to correct)
– The consequences of the conspiracy would have to be public or fabricated: the university publishes statistics about their admissions, and any number of people would have to cover it up or there’d be a suspicious spike in certain demographics
– The total number of people in the U involved in the conspiracy if all of it were true would be implausibly high
– Presumption of innocence has apparently gone to hell, and of all people to do it

Elam responds with this feeble bit of hand-waving:

I agree with much of what you post here, which is exactly why an affirmative response to the NCFM letter from GU is in order, vs the removal of information about Pattek from their website.

It is in the light of day where the lingering questions about this can be answered.

No, Paul, that’s not how journalism works. You get your facts straight BEFORE you publish. You don’t publish dubious — and in this case demonstrably false — information and wait for others to prove it wrong in the “light of day.”

This whole incident is shining a lot of daylight onto AVFM, and what it reveals is none too pretty — albeit not suprising in the least.

Thanks, Cloudiah, for bringing the Georgetown response and these comments to our attention.

EDITED AGAIN: The same Men’s Rights forum that thoroughly doxed the red-haired Canadian activst I wrote about earlier this week has also doxed Pattek, albeit less thoroughly; I’m not going to link to it. Some other sites that have wrongly trashed Pettek: ReyekoMRA, a conspiracy-mongering site ironically called What Really Happened, and Stormfront. Yes, THAT Stormfront, the hangout for white supremecists.

What’s amazing to me is that the discussion on Stormfront, despite being racist as fuck, actually shows more evidence of critical thought than the discussions of the AVFM regulars. Posting in the Stormfront thread, David Duke — yes, THAT David Duke — is critical enough to think that “feminist conservative’s” blog is bogus. Others are similarly skeptical. Meanwhile, another commenter there is able to figure out that whether or not the blog is bogus, there’s no way Pattek wrote it.

So it’s official: Paul Elam is dumber, and more blinded by hate, than David Duke.

I’m going to write Pattek a supportive email. (If you can’t find her email account, I can send you the email of hers I’m using.)

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katz
8 years ago

I’m expecting something like, “It was all a trick to set us up for ridicule,” to come up. That, or a very, very grudging, “Okay, so we may have made an error this one time.”

I, for one, am hoping for a full-on “what was clearly meant by our words was something other than what we said.” You know, “by ‘this is her,’ we didn’t mean that they are literally one and the same person, but that they are one as all western women are, in essence, one, equally deserving of censure just as they all equally benefit from the crimes of feminism.”

Like that guy who argued that him saying something is mythical didn’t mean he didn’t think it existed. And hopefully in equally bloviating language.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Kielbasa, here’s Biscuit.

Here’s Mimi (calico) and Lilly (fat grey).

Your babies are adorable.

Maude LL
Maude LL
8 years ago

@katz
Yes!
NAWALT!

Kielbasa
Kielbasa
8 years ago
Reply to  hellkell

hellkell, Thanks! Yours are also adorable! I especially love Biscuit in the dish rack.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

And here’s my all time favorite pic of Meg.

katz
8 years ago

So many precious kitties.

cloudiah
8 years ago

I love all the manboobz kitties.

thebewilderness
8 years ago

Georgetown can’t allow that sort of rumour to persist. That is the sort of thing that has legs and can do long term damage. Next thing you know Glenn Beck and Drudge will be reporting it as a straight news story.

Also too and besides I swiped this and it is now circulating on Tumblr.

MRA’s would be fooled by alphabet blocks spelling out MISANDRY under a cardboard box propped up with a stick.

thebewilderness
8 years ago

YAY Kitties!

Kielbasa
Kielbasa
8 years ago

David, I accidentally left a comment under the wrong display name because WordPress, would you mind deleting it?

It was this: I wish I had more cats to contribute, but we had to get rid of Cotton way back when we moved in with my step-dad during high school. Actually that was over 15 years ago so Cotton probably isn’t still with us.

ignotussomnium
ignotussomnium
8 years ago

The Elam School of Journalism: You can’t prove Hitler WASN’T an alien, therefore he was!

When a member of the KKK is being more reasonable than you, it’s probably a sign to shut the fuck up.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Bewilderness: the response they gave earlier was them flicking the AVfM booger off their finger. It would have to get a LOT worse for them do anything further.

thebewilderness
8 years ago

Has there been a troll here today? I have gotten so used to scrolling past them that I did not notice their absence. I noticed the absence of delightfully snarky replies however.

thebewilderness
8 years ago

You are probably right, hellkell. I just keep remembering how many times the Onion satire has been reported as a breaking scandal and even when they find out they are wrong the zombie lie never dies.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

bewliderness, this thread has been remarkably troll free. I guess they really DON’T like bad publicity after all.

Shaenon
8 years ago

I, for one, am hoping for a full-on “what was clearly meant by our words was something other than what we said.” You know, “by ‘this is her,’ we didn’t mean that they are literally one and the same person, but that they are one as all western women are, in essence, one, equally deserving of censure just as they all equally benefit from the crimes of feminism.”

It looks like they’re going with, “Yeah, but what if the blogger WASN’T imaginary, and she really WAS this random woman we’ve been harassing, and the reason all evidence points to the contrary is that the feminist conspiracy running Georgetown University cunningly altered all the information on the Internet? Until you can prove that definitely DIDN’T happen, we could still be right so we don’t have to apologize.”

Shaenon
8 years ago

We are through the looking glass, people!

katz
8 years ago

If that’s going to be their logic, can’t they just go fuck deer?

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

Ugh, don’t remind me of health insurance. I feel intensely fortunate that I live in MA, where everyone has health insurance, and I didn’t have my mental collapse until I was well and safely insured; there was no way I could’ve afforded my care otherwise, which would’ve cost thousands of dollars.

I could always tell the non-USA trans folk online, because they would always be shocked–SHOCKED–that I had to pay $8000 for my surgery out-of-pocket. And if my insurance hadn’t (miraculously) covered it, a month of hormones would’ve cost me more than my month’s rent.

You know. Back when I had a rent to pay.

Lady Stark
Lady Stark
8 years ago

Is Paul Elam the dumbest fucking human on the face of the earth? Seriously, he sucks at EVERYTHING. And MRAs look to him for leadership? What a clusterfuck.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

For trolls may I direct you to the Canadian activist… thread?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

And this is yet another reason why you don’t dox people.

So what you are saying is that this is Salem all over again. Only with less hangings.

Eh, I wouldn’t put it past them given the way they keep escalating. Also, at least the people
in Salem might have had ergot poisoning as an excuse.

Jessay (@jessay)
8 years ago

Looks like MRAs are becoming a more legitimate news source every day. At least, they’re sure acting like it by naming innocent people without verification.

Maude LL
Maude LL
8 years ago

@Jessay
Reality is misandry!

Jessay (@jessay)
8 years ago

OT, am I the only one who lols at this commercial specifically because of MRA’s. A PILL TO MAKE YOUR PROSTATE BETA?!

Jessay (@jessay)
8 years ago

gdit I accidentall pressed post premaurely

http://cdnll.newvitality.com/images/xl/5A01FE05925C5D7.jpg

franky tea
franky tea
8 years ago

so wait, these mras crap themselves over a 1+ year old blogpost, most likely a hoax, dox the wrong person for it, & despite clear evidence Pattek is NOT the blogger, they’re still pushing the issue, and a handful of white nationalists have better judgement about the matter than Elam. wow. i’m kind of embarrassed for him and his buds. better happy than right, i guess?

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Dumb shits.

LeShiggedyDiggedy
LeShiggedyDiggedy
8 years ago

So… the MRM (or at least, AVFM) has proven itself to be worse than Stormfront and a former member of the KKK.

Stormfront.

STORMFRONT, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

And… mockery for teaching kids in Kenya. Seriously, can they get any lower than this? CAN THEY?

It seems like, at this point, the only hate group worse than MRAs… is the Westboro Baptist Church.
Yes, All that’s missing for the MRM to hit the Ultimate rock bottom is to do something like picketing a feminist’s funeral with signs like “God hates misandry” or “Thank God for more dead feminists”. Oh sorry… Maybe I shouldn’ t give them ideas.

No…come to think about it… In a way, I think they’re already worse than WBC (as in, more dangerous and threatening)

Kittehserf
8 years ago

G’day everyone! Don’t know if I’ll catch up on the threads now. We were internetless at work yesterday (another great example of our general manager’s incompetence) and I was out all day today. Hope everyone’s okay, and welcome to the delurkers! 🙂

scarlettpipstrelle
8 years ago

I’ve heard of pig-biting mad, but MRAs are pig-biting reckless.

Podkayne
8 years ago

I have prescription coverage through work (insurance which costs me 35$ a month), which covers about 70% of the cost. Now, the one medication I take costs, cash, about 22$ for a month’s supply of generic or about 43$ for brand name. I was recently on a message board about the condition I take it for, when someone from the US asked about the cheapest place to buy my medication without insurance. People started piping up excitedly about ‘low’ prices in the 90$ to 3-number range that shocked the crap out of me. I literally cannot understand how anyone affords these drugs in the US if insurance has to pay it and a lot of folks have no insurance.

daintydougal
daintydougal
8 years ago

If Paul Elam is not entirely made of bees, why is he refusing to show all his medical records? Let the truth be known Paul!

timetravellingfool
8 years ago

Maybe they are experimenting with their pretend power by torturing this poor woman until Georgetown U responds in exactly the way they want them to. And makes them feel like a big, strong movement. Kind of like a hostage. What is it pecunium said they were behaving like? Rhymes with hair or wrists.

Malitia
Malitia
8 years ago

So these people don’t do basic decency, think empathy is something to eat and suck at detective work? I can’t say I’m surprised.

Also: I made a kitty avatar. I hope it worked. 🙂

Marie
8 years ago

@Malitia

Yay for kitty avatar! It’s cute <3

daintydougal
daintydougal
8 years ago

@Malitia,

I also approve of your kitty avatar. I like to imagine all the avatars meet up to frolic about laughing about misandry.

Ella
Ella
8 years ago

Pig biting mad seems to describe a certain state of mind….a little to well. It doesn’t seem to advance the credibility of avfm, when some of the party faves spread lies about others to promote their own dodgy conspiracy theories. I notes that in the comments section of a great article by Vice.ca.
Btw I am relatively new to posting here, but I love this site. After reading some of the mens rights propaganda, David and the regulars here have given me a reason to smile and once again have some hope for humanity.
Plus did I mention I love cats?
Thank you everyone you are much appreciated!

LeShiggedyDiggedy
LeShiggedyDiggedy
8 years ago

Maybe they are experimenting with their pretend power by torturing this poor woman until Georgetown U responds in exactly the way they want them to. And makes them feel like a big, strong movement. Kind of like a hostage. What is it pecunium said they were behaving like? Rhymes with hair or wrists.

Honestly, I’m afraid this is only the beginning…
First Adria Richards, now this woman. They are getting confidence.

How long until some unstable MRA finds the courage to move from behind his computer screen and start “real” terrorism? (by targeting women’s shelters or feminist universities)

Am I exaggerating? Maybe, but those people really are scary.
I’m afraid we’ll hear about the MRM on the news sooner or later…

bagelsan
bagelsan
8 years ago

I wouldn’t mind if we heard about MRAs on the news, as long as no one (but themselves) was hurt. Little roaches like that need more direct sunlight.

Shaenon
8 years ago

If Paul Elam is not entirely made of bees, why is he refusing to show all his medical records? Let the truth be known Paul!

If he does show them, they could still be forgeries. Also, the fact that I couldn’t find his complete medical records with a quick Google search is extremely suspicious. If Paul Elam has nothing to hide, why did he purge the Internet of his medical information? And how could he have done that without the assistance of the vast bee conspiracy?

Paul Elam needs to answer every one of our questions, no matter how stupid. And if he doesn’t, I’ll have no choice but to assume he’s made of bees.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Paul Elam IS made of bees. This totally explains colony collapse disorder. Paulie is clearly a toxic environment, and no living creature could survive inside him for long. In order to continue existing on an earthly plane, Paulie must be somehow harvesting and ingesting a very large number of bees on a daily basis, leading many bee colonies to collapse.

How could I not see this earlier?

bagelsan
bagelsan
8 years ago

Paul Elam being made of bees makes perfect sense. A bee once stung me. If that’s not woman-hating I don’t know what is.

…But wait, aren’t bees mostly female? Maybe Elam is made out of drones. Would make even more sense.

theseventhguest
theseventhguest
8 years ago

Finally caught up again.
I am honored to be the first (as far as I can tell) to receive the now collected Welcome Package. Thanks, cloudiah.
And, hi Marie! Thank you!

theseventhguest
theseventhguest
8 years ago

Also, I should also mention that many doctors will reject patients that have been on, and want to continue to be on, opiate-based medications.

I’ve seen active anxiety in doctors having to do anything with long term pain patients, even for muscle relaxers.

timetravellingfool
8 years ago

Oh. I like bees. Poor bees, forced to make up the being of Paul Elam.

daintydougal
daintydougal
8 years ago

Hmmm, if there’s any logic to it perhaps he isn’t made of bees…
I note he is STILL refusing to show his birth and medical certificates though. Pfft, his whole ‘being a human’ shtick is wearing Very thin.

Deoridhe
8 years ago

Omg, Seventhguest!!! I love that game!

I’m having a rough time of it recently, but even when I don’t have the time or energy to comment, you guys make me smile.