Categories
a voice for men antifeminism doxing evil women gross incompetence harassment literal nazis men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA paul elam reddit

Lazy Libel: A Voice for Men “doxes” an alleged misandrist blogger — and ID’s the wrong woman [UPDATE2 w/ Georgetown response, notes from neo-Nazis]

A Voice for Men: The Gang that Couldn't Dox STraight
A Voice for Men: The Gang that Couldn’t Dox Straight

As I finished up my last post about Men’s Rights Redditors attempting to dox a so-called “conservative feminist” blogger who had confessed to trashing male applications when working in a university admissions office, I saw that A Voice for Men has run a post by Paul Elam identifying someone they’ve convinced themselves is the blogger, apparently using the information dug up by the Reddit doxers.

Their alleged culprit? “Arianna Pattek, a Georgetown grad student.” Other Men’s Rightsers have taken up the case, and the Conspiracy Subreddit is all aflutter about a post identifying her by name.

They’ve got the wrong person.

AVFM “proof” backing up their claims is that they have found a paper by Pattek that bears some vague resemblances to the blogger’s description of her thesis. But it’s clearly not a match.

Discussing her (then upcoming) thesis defense on her blog, the blogger refers to a number of topics, including men’s rights and paleoconservatism, that aren’t referenced at all in Pattek’s thesis. And roughly half the of her thesis deals with a topic — Holocaust Denial — that the blogger doesn’t mention. The blogger says her thesis is 120 pages; Pattek’s thesis is 95 pages.

But there’s an even bigger reason I know these two women are not one and the same:

The pseudonymous blogger claims to have gotten a doctorate in the spring of 2012.

Pattek got her bachelors degree from Georgetown in the spring of 2012. She’s not now, and has never been, a grad student.

Her thesis wasn’t a PhD. thesis, but a Senior Thesis that was a requirement for her minor in Justice and Peace, a program for undergraduates.

It even says so on the title page of the thesis itself: “A Thesis Submitted in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements for the Certificate in Justice and Peace, Georgetown University, Spring 2012.” A news article linked to in the comments on A Voice for Men notes that she was “the winner of the 2012 Peace and Justice Studies Association (PJSA) Undergraduate Thesis Award.”

UNDERgraduate. UNDERgraduate.

They’re not the same woman.

All of this is clear from simply reading the “evidence” that AVFM has assembled.

Even without this smoking gun, even a cursory skimming of the blog and the thesis show that they were written by different people. The blogger, assuming she is even a real person and not the creation of a hoaxer, claims to be a “conservative feminist” and constantly bashes Muslims. Pattek, concerned about “marginalized groups,” seems to be anything but a conservative. The blogger’s writing style is crude and dogmatic, so much so that the blog reeks of hoax. Pattek, by contrast, writes smoothly and intelligently.

It’s almost as if we are talking about two different people.

Oh, wait.

A Voice for Men: not only shitty people, but shitty doxers as well.

Amazingly, someone who says he’s a friend of Pattek has gone over to AVFM to point out in the comments that she is clearly not the “conservative feminist” blogger — and has been dismissed by Wrong-Way Elam and the gang as a liar and “white knight.”

EDITED TO ADD: MarkyMark and The Elusive Wapiti have both climbed aboard the anti-Pattek bandwagon.

And Georgetown has officially clarified that 1) Pattek was an UNDERgraduate and that 2) she never worked in admissions.

tT0GNcR

Meanwhile, over on AVFM, someone called Disorderly Conduct has posted an appropriately critical comment:

I’m disconcerted by the certainty of other commenters that everything is true considering the amount and plausibility of evidence that currently exists. There’s nothing wrong with prodding the university for answers about Arianna and the website edits, but at the very least wait until more evidence comes in before you run off with your verdict.

It should be noted the credibility of the entire controversy is based on anecdotes taken from an extremely dubious and over-the-top blog. Anecdotes are NOT valid evidence of anything unless they are substantiated by additional solid evidence, and this anecdote has none. Evidence connecting the blog to Arianna suggests she might be writing the blog, not that what is being written is true. Additionally, there are serious discrepancies between the information provided about Adrianna on the cached Georgetown pages and the beliefs stated in the blog. Some commenters suggest this is to cover her identity, but there is no reason to believe this information was distorted or fabricated but the admissions blog post itself is not.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ckvgo/woman_who_works_at_college_admissions_rejects/
Mensrights reddit is not on board with this. One commenter who says they know about the Georgetown admissions process asserts that there is major gaps between their knowledge of it and how the blogger portrayed the process. This includes discrepancies between dates and the fact that admissions isn’t even run by a single person. Another commenter says there’s a committee involved in judging admissions. Putting this much effort into portraying your post as containing faulty information just so you can brag about seriously incriminating and illegal evidence is extremely implausible to me.

To recap:
– There’s no evidence the post about trashing admissions is factual, and other evidence indicates it wasn’t
– There is insubstantial evidence the blogger was Arianna
– It is advisable to wait until there is substantial evidence before you declare it as true

Additionally:
– I haven’t seen evidence Arianna was ever in charge of admissions (feel free to correct)
– The consequences of the conspiracy would have to be public or fabricated: the university publishes statistics about their admissions, and any number of people would have to cover it up or there’d be a suspicious spike in certain demographics
– The total number of people in the U involved in the conspiracy if all of it were true would be implausibly high
– Presumption of innocence has apparently gone to hell, and of all people to do it

Elam responds with this feeble bit of hand-waving:

I agree with much of what you post here, which is exactly why an affirmative response to the NCFM letter from GU is in order, vs the removal of information about Pattek from their website.

It is in the light of day where the lingering questions about this can be answered.

No, Paul, that’s not how journalism works. You get your facts straight BEFORE you publish. You don’t publish dubious — and in this case demonstrably false — information and wait for others to prove it wrong in the “light of day.”

This whole incident is shining a lot of daylight onto AVFM, and what it reveals is none too pretty — albeit not suprising in the least.

Thanks, Cloudiah, for bringing the Georgetown response and these comments to our attention.

EDITED AGAIN: The same Men’s Rights forum that thoroughly doxed the red-haired Canadian activst I wrote about earlier this week has also doxed Pattek, albeit less thoroughly; I’m not going to link to it. Some other sites that have wrongly trashed Pettek: ReyekoMRA, a conspiracy-mongering site ironically called What Really Happened, and Stormfront. Yes, THAT Stormfront, the hangout for white supremecists.

What’s amazing to me is that the discussion on Stormfront, despite being racist as fuck, actually shows more evidence of critical thought than the discussions of the AVFM regulars. Posting in the Stormfront thread, David Duke — yes, THAT David Duke — is critical enough to think that “feminist conservative’s” blog is bogus. Others are similarly skeptical. Meanwhile, another commenter there is able to figure out that whether or not the blog is bogus, there’s no way Pattek wrote it.

So it’s official: Paul Elam is dumber, and more blinded by hate, than David Duke.

I’m going to write Pattek a supportive email. (If you can’t find her email account, I can send you the email of hers I’m using.)

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

368 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Pierre needs to set up a trap like that….

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

OMG, baby goats! My neighbor has a ranch, and he brings me back pics of the baby goats. I really want a goat, preferably a fainting one, because they crack me up.

Kielbasa
Kielbasa
8 years ago

OH MY GOD I WANT TO HUG BABY GOATS

Chocolate and alcohol is a good idea. Since it’s pouring I won’t be taking out trash or anything, so now is as good a time as any to eat, drink, and work on my thesis (on how to oppress men using computational geometry.)

princessbonbon
8 years ago

Now, if we could pass a law that says that student loans can be paid for with some sort of ‘government scrip’–basically, Medicare issues an IOU to the doctor, who passes it along to the bank holding his student loans, who HAVE to accept it, and then work to get the money from the Medicare offices instead of the doctors–you’d end up with the docs FIGHTING for Medicare patients.

Since rural areas are often under served, I favor a system where a newbie doctor gets X knocked of his or her’s student loans for each year of practice (in addition to a living stipend.)

opheliamonarch
opheliamonarch
8 years ago

Hey everyone, I really wish I was surprised by anything MRAs do.
Oh for those halcyon days of 2009 when I barely knew who they were. Well done once again David for the fantastic coverage of MRA wankery.

Posted for the first time last night, and am worried I’ll chicken out of posting again, so this is just a bit of practice waffle. Waffle, waffle, waffle.

Thought this thread was pretty loose so it would be okay to go off topic.

Regarding the NHS here in the UK, it ain’t posh, but I was so glad of it when I was in hospital last year.
So sympathy to all those without this fantastic service (loved somegreybloke’s Youtube video on the NHS, it was virtually a haiku)
Having said that if the Lib Con Gov has their way all public services will go the way of the dodo (and our AAA rating) (and Margaret Thatcher) quite soon.

hellkell, hope you feel better soon.

Anyway, everyone was really welcoming earlier so I thought this time I’d bring a gift, although I’m sure you’ve all seen it, if not, here’s the real Spaceman Spiff.

http://www.hngn.com/articles/2015/20130418/fun-experiment-astronaut-wrings-out-washcloth-space-watch-what-happens.htm

Marie
8 years ago

@Kielbasa

They decided that the bomber was a missing Brown student named Sunil Tripathi. Internet sleuthing for the win! Wait, no.

🙁 Is xie okay?

@troutkitty

It’s like reading Saving the Pearls and realizing that the author actually thinks people who are not white must really be sad (and that they are horribly ugly) because that they are not white.

oh, yeah, even the reviews or quotes from that book made me want to bang my head in the wall, I’m not going near the whole thing the whole book, even with a ten foot pole covered in spiders. That analogy may have gotten out of hand.

@chocomintlipwax

1. In this state you must be uninsured for 6 months before you can sign up for any of the state plans that are rolling out due to the ACA.

wow…what do they expect you to do for those six month? 🙁

2. In this state you cannot qualify for Medicaid as a single individual (you need to have kids), even if you make below poverty wages (I make $8000 a year).

um, double wow? How do they expect you to like… survive. Gah.

@hellkell

*If I get weird, it’s the percocet and muscle relaxers. This is probably the second most painful thing I’ve ever had.

ow. I hope you get better soon, or at least less painy.

@staceyraptor

Moms do lose their Medicaid a month after they have the baby, so moms better hope they don’t get PPD or have other complications…..

Ugh 🙁 Useful information to know, but so sucky to hear about. Why does America suck so much?

@bagelsan

@Kielbasa: once I’m a nurse practitioner I’ll prescribe all the things! XD

Related-ish, but my doctor is awesome, she got me a prescription ibprofen so insurance will cover it (I think that was the point) because I have to take it so often b/c of my back, it was a real money drain. My sister had had it prescribed to her by another doctor, she told mine it’d probably help me, and my doctor was just like ‘okay, we’ll try prescribing it then’. I love my doctor, she’s made of awesomes.

MordsithJ
MordsithJ
8 years ago

*thinks the David Duke comment is mere hyperbole*

*scrolls up*

Oh. My. God.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Dumber than David Duke–that’s not good. It’s a sad day when Stormfront has the more reasoned, measured approach.

I wonder if this will wake PaulE up at all.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Stormfront is better than AVfM. Wow, just wow.

Where are our trolls at? Funny how they stay away from this thread. 😀

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

cloudiah: I was thinking the same thing earlier. They’re not so hot for all the publicity right now, are they?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I’m now dumber for having read the comments on this over at AVfM. Their slogan should be “Facts?! We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Facts!”

cloudiah
8 years ago

I wonder if a friendly lawyer would be interested in representing her pro bono in a defamation suit. Or whatever. IANAL. I guess she’s in Madagascar, which might make pursuing this difficult at this point.

Kielbasa
Kielbasa
8 years ago
Reply to  cloudiah

@cloudiah If she has Internet the lawyer can pursue it for her, provided she can find a lawyer who’ll take the case pro bono or on contingency. Somebody on the Internet must know somebody.

princessbonbon
8 years ago

Off topic, but either the authorities have the bombing suspect surrounded in Watertown, or some drunk college student who fell asleep in someone’s boat in a backyard is waking up to a big, big surprise.

I was just wondering how many people had to flush their stashes today with the door to door search and just how much crime did the police have to ignore to get this guy.

Preston Pans
8 years ago

Delurking to say re Hellkell

Their slogan should be “Facts?! We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Facts!”

For some reason this made the Ghostbusters tune pop into my head. “I ain’t afraid of no facts!”

Re healthcare, I used to stay in Scotland and had only great experiences with the NHS. Or, very nasty, painful experiences, but still, the NHS was great. The Netherlands, where I stay now, are moving away from proper affordable healthcare towards, well, the US. Meh.

prestonpans
8 years ago

Arse, first comment and the blockquote monster gets me. Boo.

scarlettpipstrelle
8 years ago

I worked for almost a decade in a major US research university, and having one gal who graduated with an undergraduate degree in 2012 being given veto authority over admissions is NOT how it’s done. This is yet another example of the feature shared my MRAers that amazes me the most – not the hate, not the danger, not the bad writing, it’s the sheer deliberate numbskullishness of their culture. They can’t research their way out of a wet paper bag and don’t even seem to try.

longshangui
longshangui
8 years ago

@cloudiah, what she needs is to use Georgetown’s lawyers. The school will have the money to go forward and has had its own reputation trashed.

Maude LL
Maude LL
8 years ago

I was just reading MarkyMark’s take on this. Seriously, all these guys have not yet figured out it’s a hoax. The wording reminded me of Marky’s epic takedown of the Onion article (he keeps writing “guys, I cannot make this up!”… impervious to irony). Like with the Onion article, I have a feeling that when he’s confronted with the clear evidence of his gullibility, he’ll find a way to rationalize the hell out of it. Some kind of “well my post is still valid because I’m sure that’s what admissions do anyway”.

Still, I know Ms. Pattek is not in North America, but the vitriol is ridiculous and I’m concerned about her safety. It really uncovers the blind hatred. Example from “Zorro”, on Marky’s blog:

“That idiotic gash should be hunted down like the Boston bombers.
Western civilization put a gun in its mouth and pulled the trigger the day it gave the vote to women. Our society is just the inevitable, slow exsanguination from that wound.”

At least, “Zorro” writes he likes Astrud Gilberto on his profile. I guess that’s one woman.

http://markymarksthoughts.blogspot.ca/2013/04/sexist-extraordinaire-arianna-pattek.html?showComment=1366399769417#c939268980012850340

Ms Getta Lode
Ms Getta Lode
8 years ago
longshangui
longshangui
8 years ago

At least the US FBI has now taken the second young male bomber into custody, alive and wounded. Just happened.

Maude LL
Maude LL
8 years ago

Some at AVfM are suggesting they put her in Register-Her and they are looking for her picture. They also think the fact that only AVfM is “reporting” this is proof the media is feminist.
I need to cleanse my brain for a while.

gelar
gelar
8 years ago

Like with the Onion article, I have a feeling that when he’s confronted with the clear evidence of his gullibility, he’ll find a way to rationalize the hell out of it.

I’m expecting something like, “It was all a trick to set us up for ridicule,” to come up. That, or a very, very grudging, “Okay, so we may have made an error this one time.”

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

MarkyMark is probably my favorite (in so far as that goes) MRA, because he is so incredibly gullible and credulous. About everything.

Ms Getta Lode
Ms Getta Lode
8 years ago

Another reddit link – this one is a comment listing some articles ripping on reddit/social media for being buttheads: http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1col3j/once_again_reddit_does_more_harm_than_good/c9iprxw

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Of course AVfM is gonna double down, even thought they’re wrong. PaulE’s tumescent ego wouldn’t have it any other way.

timetravellingfool
8 years ago

Honestly, I don’t think they care that they got it wrong. They haven’t had any repercussions from any of their previous doxxing, this woman appears to be a feminist anyway- they are just enjoying their ability to terrorize any woman at any time.

Marie
8 years ago

@Maude LL

Some at AVfM are suggesting they put her in Register-Her and they are looking for her picture. They also think the fact that only AVfM is “reporting” this is proof the media is feminist.
I need to cleanse my brain for a while.

Does there confirmation bias know no bounds?

Marie
8 years ago

*their. typoed.

timetravellingfool
8 years ago

@ david- God, that would be amazing- maybe a woman’s group on campus would talk to the president of the university.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Every time I think they can’t possibly get more despicable and evil, they prove that they can. There is no bottom to their barrel.

Maude LL
Maude LL
8 years ago

@ David
Mocking people for teaching kids in Kenya: the blueprint of a human rights movement.

cloudiah
8 years ago

It would be awesome if Georgetown lawyers took her case and sued the hell out of all the MRAs that are spewing lies about her.

It would be awesome, but I don’t think it will happen. For Georgetown, this was a tiny blip on their radar. The only way I can see them doing anything is if the idea that their admissions process is slipshod really gains traction, but right now it’s just a bunch of not-as-smart-as-Stormfronters bloviating on the internet.

I think if she wants to sue, she will need her own lawyer, and her best chance is someone who takes the case for political reasons, not on contingency. Let’s face it, no one is going to get rich off of suing MRAs. Still I really, REALLY hope that she does sue them, just to put the fear of the Flying Spaghetti Monster into them. And I hope I am just being cynical about Georgetown and they come through.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

cloudiah: having grown up around academia, this is nowhere near the level of embarrassment or bother necessary to get Georgetown to pick up the phone to their lawyers. I’ve seen heinous shit just settled, this is not even a blip.

timetravellingfool
8 years ago

Wow, gotta say, I did not see that coming.

longshangui
longshangui
8 years ago

@ Marie, Fidelbogen the cave dragon has put up her picture on his obscure site – a nice young woman pointing to a blackboard, teaching kids something useful. He should also be sued for repeating the libel. The MRAs may as well finish themselves off with a photo of her being productive helping people. At this point I think it’s called digging your own grave, if avfm posts her photo. As stupid and hateful as they are, yes, I think they will. Yes, they’ll double down. Elam has often said he has nothing to lose, and that’s basically true. He has nothing left in life but his site and his hate. Too bad about his young followers who do have something to live for.

bagelsan
bagelsan
8 years ago

I knew a woman was behind this!!

cloudiah
8 years ago

Funny how our fantasies revolve around making the world a more just place, and MRA fantasies revolve around making women suffer.

Actually that isn’t very funny.

Zooey Deschanel’s involvement in the events in Boston is very funny, though, so thanks for the laugh.

Maude LL
Maude LL
8 years ago

Paul Elam should write a post denouncing Zooey Deschanel for her terrorism. I bet the feminist government will let her go. We demand justice!

Maude LL
Maude LL
8 years ago

Plus she totally lied about her age.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

It might be different if she were still a student, though. Then they would have more incentive to get involved. Irate parents wondering why their daughter is being harassed is quite a motivator.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Hey David, since you run the SPLC* and all, do you think anyone there would have a lead on a lawyer for her if our fantasies about Georgetown doing the right thing don’t come true? And if she contacts you back?

*This is a joke, MRA asshats. David does not run the SPLC. David runs the New York Times.**

**Also a joke. Jeeze. David used to run the New York Times, but now he concentrates on his extreme tap-dancing hobby.***

***This is actually true. David Futrelle is a hardcore tap-dancer.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Awww, kitties!

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Kitties! Right now I have Biscuit climbing all over me, purring loudly and furiously biscuiting.

Kielbasa
Kielbasa
8 years ago
Reply to  cloudiah

I have two kitties! http://imgur.com/a/itCsi